Hello and welcome to my YES Standard snowboard review
In this review, I will take a look at the Standard as an all-mountain snowboard.
As per tradition here at SnowboardingProfiles.com I will give the Standard a score out of 100 (based on several factors) and see how it compares with other all-mountain snowboards.
Overall Rating
Board: YES Standard 2019
Price: $499 (USD recommended retail)
Style: All-Mountain
Flex Rating: Medium-Stiff (7/10 on YES’s flex scale)
Flex Feel on Snow: Medium (6/10)
Rating Score: 92.7/100
Compared to other Men’s All-Mountain Boards
Out of the 35 men’s all-mountain snowboards that I rated:
- The average score was 80.4/100
- The highest score was 92.7/100
- The lowest score was 64.0/100
- The average price was $481 (USD)
- The Standard ranked 1st out of 35!
Overview of the Standard’s Specs
Check out the tables for the Standard’s specs and available sizes.
Specs
Style: | All Mountain |
Price: | $499 |
Ability Level: |  |
Flex: |  |
Feel: |  |
Turn Initiation: | Medium-Fast |
Edge-hold: |  |
Camber Profile: | Hybrid Camber (3-4-3 Rocker-Camber-Rocker) |
Shape: | |
Setback Stance: | Centered (with slam back stance option) |
Base: | Sintered |
Weight: | Normal |
Sizing
Length (cm) | 149 | 151 | 153 | 156 | 159 | 162 |
Waist Width (mm) | 245 | 248 | 253 | 258 | 263 | 268 |
Rec Rider Weight (lb) | 115-155 | 125-165 | 135-175 | 145-185 | 155-195 | 160-200+ |
Rec Rider Weight (kg) | 50-70 | 55-75 | 60-80 | 65-85 | 70-90 | 80-100+ |
Who is the Standard Most Suited To?
The Standard is the board for anyone that likes to do a bit of everything but only wants one board to do it all on and not have the hassle of switching boards depending on the situation.
So, if you want to be able to ride the powder, ride the park and ride groomers and ride them in any style that you like, then the Standard is worth checking out.
Not ideally suited for a beginner (but not the worst either) but great for anyone who is intermediate or up.
The Standard in More Detail
O.k. let’s take a more detailed look at what the Standard is capable of.
Demo Info
Board: YES Standard 2019, 156cm (258mm waist)
Date: March 15, 2018
Conditions: Icy in a lot of places, especially first thing but even first thing there were some softer patches. Icy patches decreased and soft patches increased as the day went on. Sunny as! Clear blue skies. So, goes without saying 100% vis.
Bindings angles: +15/-15
Stance width: 545mm (21.5“)
Stance Setback: Centered
Width at Inserts: 270mm (10.6“)
Weight: 2880grams (6lb 5.6oz)
Weight per cm: 18.46grams/cm
Average Weight per cm: 18.21grams/cm* (so it’s really close to average)
*based on a small sample size of 24 boards that I weighed.
Given the width of the board, it’s quite light for per cm.
Powder
Even when centered, this board rides the powder well. This is mostly based on the 2018 model, when I had more powder to test in.
If you were to set it back (and it has some extra “slam back” inserts where you can setup with a decent setback if you want) it would be even better. But I was too lazy to do it, even though I had plenty of fresh powder to play with. The reason? It was good enough in powder when it was centered so I didn’t feel the need.
Now, I was also demoing for other characteristics and I wanted to test it in it’s normal stance, which is centered, but if you had a powder day you could slam it back and it would be worth it if you were going to be surfing the powder all day.
It has a good bit of rocker in tip and tail (so riding the pow switch is also fine) and it’s also has something that YES call a “directional volume twin” – which means it’s essentially a true twin except that the tail has a little less material in there (it’s the same width and length as the nose). You notice this in powder but not on groomers – so it’s essentially a true twin on groomers.
Carving & Turning
Even though there is plenty of rocker in the tip and tail of this board, it drives a carve nicely.
And for basic turns it’s nice and it’s quite forgiving. You can definitely get away with skidded turns and it’s not catchy at all.
Flex-wise YES rate this a 7/10 but I’d say more like 6/10.
Let’s Break up this text with a Video
Speed
This board can handle the speed and it feels stable even when bombing. It’s not going to be the speed demon that a freeride board is – but it’s certainly no slouch, especially for a twin.
Uneven Terrain
As with pretty much everything this board tries to do, it is good in uneven terrain. Between the 2018 and 2019 models I demoed the last couple of years, it could handle any terrain I threw at it well – something any good all-mountain should.
Jumps
This board is super fun on jumps and doing spins. It’s got that camber between the feet that really helps with pop and it’s got great stability for landings.
It’s got an even swing feel and with that centered stance feels really comfortable with spins.
And now that it has a lighter core (new for the 2019 model), it makes it even snappier and easier to pop and spin.
Switch
It’s basically a true twin and that shows when you’re riding switch. It wouldn’t be as comfortable riding switch in the slam back stance position but centered it’s a great board for riding and landing switch.
Jibbing/Buttering
Definitely doable – it’s not going to match it with freestyle or jib specialist boards or get close to them, but it can jib OK. It’s not something that frightened the daylights out of me when approaching jibs like some boards can (or make me skip the jib line altogether!)
Actually a really easy/nice board to butter. Easier than I expected with the flex that it has. It’s perhaps a little softer tip and tail than it is in the middle.
Pipe
Though I didn’t ride it in a pipe I think it would be a really good pipe board. It’s got enough stiffness, has good edge hold in hard snow and has a decent amount of camber between the feet to help drive between the walls. It’s also centered and virtually a true twin with a good swing feel.
Changes from the 2018 Model
The 2018 and 2019 are mostly the same. The one change is that the 2019 model has a lighter core. Otherwise it’s the same but this is a nice improvement. There were more major changes between the 2017 and 2018 models (see below).
Changes from the 2017 Model
There were a few changes between the 2017 & 2018 model.
Firstly, the sizings changed. There are no longer any wide sizes but the regular sizes are wider.
It now comes in a 149, 151, 153, 156 and 159. The 2017 model came in a 152, 154, 156, 158, 156W, 159W, 161W. But with that wider waist width, you can ride a shorter board if you want.
In terms of waist width the 156cm that I rode in the 2018 model had a 258mm waist width and the 2017 model 156cm had a 250mm waist width – so this increased quite a bit. The 159 now has a 263mm waist – which is wider than the 2017 159W, which had a 258mm waist.
The sidecuts and effective edges also changed for the 2018 model.
Score Breakdown and Final Verdict
Check out the breakdown of the score in the table below.
FACTOR | rating (OUT OF 5) | contribution to final score |
|---|---|---|
Powder | 3.5 | 10.5/15 |
Carving/Turning | 4.0 | 12/15 |
Speed | 4.0 | 12/15 |
Uneven Terrain | 3.5 | 10.5/15 |
Switch | 4.0 | 8/10 |
Jumps | 4.5 | 9/10 |
Jibbing | 3.0 | 6/10 |
Pipe | 4.0 | 8/10 |
TOTAL after normalizing | 92.7/100 |
Overall the 2019 YES Standard is the same in most respects to the 2018 model, but with a lighter core - which can only be a good thing.
It’s on the top of the list for me, as far as do-it-all, one-board-quiver boards out there go. As well as performing really well across all the categories I test for, it's also just got that X factor that's hard to describe.
More Info, Current Prices and Where to Buy Online
If you’re interested in learning more about the Standard, are ready to buy or would like to check out current prices and availability, check out the links below.
If you want to see how the Standard compared to other all-mountain boards or want to check out some other options check out the next link.
Hey Nate,
I was just wondering how much you weigh?
I am gonna buy this board but can’t decide what length. I would normally go with a 156 but it sounds like going shorter is doable with the wider dimensions. I weigh 165-170. I’m concerned about still getting good float in deep snow and stability landing in deep snow with the 153. But want this to be my do everything board and still fun and playful on groomer days so if i can get away with a 153 that would be awesome.
Cheers
Hi Andrew
I’m currently 180 – and was around that when I demoed the Standard. You could possibly go down to the 153cm but I think the 156cm would still work for you. But if you can let me know your height and boot size as well, then I could more accurately recommend a size.
Keep in mind that the wider widths only apply to the 2018 model of this board. The 2017 model had different waist widths. For the 2017 model I would either ride the 156W or 158 and possibly even the 159W but for the 2018 model I definitely prefer the 156. For you the 156 or 153 for 2018 model but I’d say at least 156 for the 2017 model – but if you can let me know your height and boot size I can more accurately recommend something for you.
Cheers for getting back to me so quick. I’m 5’10 and where a US 9.
And ill be getting the 2018 model. The 2017 seems to be sold out pretty much everywhere in a 156.
Hi Andrew
I think you could get along with the 153cm. You’ll something in the way of float in powder compared to the 2018 156 for sure but you’ll gain some playfulness – and that extra little bit of width will add back some of that surface area for powder. If you would normally have gone for a 156cm, then compared to the 2017 156 you actually add 3mm of width to the waist compared to that model. I think this will make it comparable in terms of float to the 2017 156cm – maybe not quite as much float but certainly more than the 2017 154cm.
And with that shorter length you’ll get the advantage of that playfullness that you still want out of your board. I think the 156cm would still work but it’s on the wide side for size 9s and you’ll loose some agility because of that extra width. the 258cm width I found was fine (size 10s) but I wouldn’t go any wider – and bringing my length down (I’d normally ride 158-159cm for an all mountain board) offset the width to a large degree.
So for your stats I think going to 153cm would work well in the same way.
Hope this helps.
Cheers Nate, much appreciated
Hey Nate,
I was thinking about purchasing this board as well but I’d like to get your opinion on what size would be best. I was looking at the 161W or the 159W for the 2017 one or the 156 for the 2018. I’m 6 ft and about 180-185 lbs but I have a size 11.5 boot which makes it tricky. What would you recommend?
Thanks
Hi Patrick
Thanks for your message.
You’re a similar height and weight to me and I would go 156 for the 2018 and 158 for the 2017. But I have size 10s. I do like my boards slightly on the shorter side. I think for you the 159 if going 2018 and the 159W if getting 2017.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
I am also looking to purchase this board. I have been looking at the Yes Standard 2018 153 and am wondering if this will be the right size for me. I’m 5’10” weigh 168 and take a US 10.5 boot. I’ve been riding a 152 Salomon with a waist width of approx 245mm for the past 4 years.
Troy
Hi Troy
Thanks for your message.
Usually I would say something around a 157cm to 158cm for your height/weight and for an all-mountain style of riding but with the new sizings for the YES Standard, you can definitely go shorter with the wider widths. So I wouldn’t go longer than 156 for that board.
And I think the 153 is definitely worth considering too. The reason, I would also consider the 153cm for you is that is because, a. you’re used to riding a 152, b. you’re to used to riding a narrow 152 and c. the 156 is the size I would ride for the 2018 model (and I’m a bit heavier at 180-ish lbs)
So, I think it’s definitely between the 153 and 156. And I would be leaning towards the 153 for you, given all the factors, but it’s close. Either way, I think you will appreciate the extra bit of surface area of a slightly longer/wider board.
The 245mm waist on your current board is quite narrow for 10.5s. Curious to know if you’ve experienced any toe or heel drag riding it?
Hi Nate,
Liking your review on the Standard and I’m looking for an all mountain board for next season, but I’m a little worried about YES new sizing for 2018.
I’m 6’1, approx 195lbs with size 12.5 boots, I’d say improving to lower level intermediate , adventureing into the tree line, a little off piste and hitting small natural kickers. Up till now I’ve preferred longer boards 161-163 and really found anything smaller a little unstable at the end of an aggressive steep turn (recently tried the Ride Berzerker 160w and Libtech Banana 159w and found them both too washy). I know that YES have purposely shortened their boards this year in line with the directional volumn profile, but do you think the 159 will work for my size, or fall short and have the same stability as the boards I’ve mentioned?
Cheers Chris
Hi Chris
Thanks for your message.
It’s tricky. I’d say that you probably want to be around that 159 to 162 size based on your height/weight/ability, so I would usually say that the 159 Standard would probably be ok. But if you’re experiencing a washy feeling on shorter boards then it’s definitely something to be careful of.
With the Lib Tech – was that the Skate Banana or Attack Banana or Banana Magic? If it was the Skate Banana or Attack Banana both are pretty loose feeling boards in general – so I would say that’s not just about the sizing – they’re not known as stable feeling boards in general. The Berzerker on the other hand is stable feeling. But the the 160W is a bit narrower than the Standard 159. Probably a bit too narrow for your boot size too. The Standard 159 is better for your boot size. You probably want to go with something that’s at least 262mm at the waist for those boots.
So it’s hard to say. The Standard is more stable in general than the Lib Tech Bananas and a little wider than the Berzerker 160W, so you might be ok on it.
The safer bet though, if you’re worried about it, is to look at something else in the all-mountain category that might have something in a 161 to 163. Check out the list at the link below.
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
In terms of stability I’d say that the YES Standard, Jones Mountain Twin, Rossignol One, YES Typo & Ride Wild Life are the most stable feeling on that list.
Hope this helps
Hi Nat,
Thanks for advice, yeah I don’t think I’ll risk the Standard without trying first.
Do you you know if Slash are actually producing the Brainstorm for 2017/2018 and if so do you think 163w would be a better fit?
Cheers C
Hi Chris
They have produced a 2018 Brainstorm – but they are slow bringing it out. Haven’t seen it available anywhere so far. But yeah, that would also be an option and I think the 163W would work for you.
I think the 161W Rossignol One is also a good option.
Or the 161W Ride Wild Life.
Or the 163W YES Typo.
Hey Nate,
I was looking at purchasing this board but I’m not too sure on sizing so was hoping to get your opinion also. I’m 6’3, ~175lbs and take a US 10.5-11 boot. I’m looking at the 159 or 156. I would usually go with the 159 but I’m not sure if this will be too wide for my boot size given the added width of the 2018 model. I’m also a little bit concerned about losing float going down to the 156. What would you recommend?
I’ve also been looking at the Jones mountain twin 160, but at the moment am struggling to find any stock in Australia. How does this board compare with the Yes Standard? I’d say I’m an intermediate rider and would mainly be using it for powder, groomers and a bit of backcountry/trees (I’m not really into park stuff so thats not a priority).
Thanks
Hi Ryan
I’d say I’d normally put you on something around the 160 to 161 mark in terms of length. But with that extra width you can definitely come down a little from there. Meaning the 159 could be ok. But with that width, you might even want to come down a little more – but maybe not as far as 156. If there was a 158, I think I’d be leaning towards that – but you are kind of in between. Overall, I think the 159 is the better option, especially given that you’re not interested in the park.
If it were for the 2017 model, the 159W would be a great fit.
The Mountain Twin is a good option for what you’re describing also and the 160 is a good size for you – but hard to find for you by the sounds of it.
There are other options too. You can check out some more options in the all-mountain category (which these two boards belong) at the link below, if you’d like.
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
Hope this helps
Thanks lot for the reply Nate,
Like you said I think I am sort of stuck in between the 156 and 159 sizes for the 2018 YES Standard model so I’ll try my luck finding a 2017 model. Just out of curiosity what would you say would be the minimum boot size suitable for the 258mm waist width of the 159W 2017 model?
Did you find there to be a significant difference between the 2017 and 2018 YES Standard models in terms of performance in powder, edge hold etc?
I may have found a 2017 Jones Mountain Twin 160 so if nothing else pops up I’ll likely end up grabbing that. My only concern is when I’ve snowboarded before I struggle a bit with tight turns when going at slower speeds through trees or over uneven terrain in steeper sections – how much difference is there between the manoeuvrability of the Jones mountain twin in comparison to the YES Standard?
Cheers for the help!
Hi Ryan
I’d say that anything from 10.5 to 11.5 is a good size for 258mm. Sometimes a 10 as well. I sometimes ride boards with waist widths around 258mm that are fine and I have US10s. So you’d definitely be fine in terms of the waist on that. I think you’d be fine on the 2018 159 too, but it’s just at that borderline level of being too wide.
I’d say the YES Standard is a bit quicker edge-to-edge than the Mountain Twin. It’s not a huge difference but noticeable, IMO. But the Mountain Twin isn’t slow edge-to-edge by any means.
2017 and 2018 Mountain Twins are very similar – so going with the 2017 isn’t a problem.
The 2018 and 2017 YES Standards are quite different. Those sizing differences change up the feel a bit. But that being said, the 2017 model is still a quality snowboard – I just preferred the 2018 model a little bit more. But for me the 156 in the 2018 model felt just right. AN example of a 258mm working with US10s. But I’d normally ride a bit longer for this style of board – so going down to the 156 but going wider worked well. For me if I went 2017 model, I’d go for the 158 (I’m 6ft and 180lbs).
Hi,
Do the slam backs inserts work with mini disc bindings?
I have nitro zeros and they only connect to 2 adjacent holes at a time as far as I can tell.
Any ideas?
Hi Jarod
If your disc require that you need to be on 2 adjacent holes (2cm apart), then I don’t think they’ll go into the slam backs. I think the slam backs are 4cm back from what I can tell and can remember. They probably could have added another set of holes in between the slam backs and the regular set (I guess they couldn’t call them “slam backs” then! but it would be more practical!)
Ah damn, that’s a shame, what bindings did you ride with the board? Looks like something from salomon?
Hey Jarod
Those are Flux bindings – Flux DSs.
Hey Nate, glad to be finding this review and even the comment section. What size would you recommend for me who is around 5’8 and 146 lbs with boot size 8.5 (K2 Maysis). I found some 2017 model on sale and I was thinking about getting 154 in size initially but now I’m planning to get another shorter freestyle board for riding around park (Yes Jackpot at 149 or 152), so I’m thinking of getting the Standard longer in 156 for different experience roaming big mountains. Thanks!
Hey Paul.
Thanks for your message. I would definitely say 154cm if you were going to be using it as your do-it-all board and potentially even 152cm. But since you are planning on getting a smaller freestyle board, then maybe the 156cm is the better bet.
For the Jackpot, the 149 would be my first choice for you for the park – particularly if you are going to have another board for big mountain riding.
I guess the only thing going 149 and 156 is that there is a big contrast there. Contrast is definitely good but is that too much? Not sure. The other thing is – would you be using the 156 Standard only for big mountain riding or would you sometimes be on slower groomers, tighter spots, trees etc. In that case I would almost be leaning back towards the 154cm – it would still be long enough for you to do big mountain stuff with – but just that little bit more versatile.
So I would say 149 Jackpot and 154 Standard – but if you only plan to do big mountain on the standard – or a large majority big mountain on it, then 156 for sure.
This is all based on the 2017 model of the Standard. As you know the sizings have changed for the 2018 model. If you were to end up going for the 2018 model I would say to go with the 153cm. It’s a little shorter but it’s also wider.
Hope this helps
Thanks Nate for the reply. I’ve pulled the trigger on the 154 Standard 2017! With a Now Drive bindings. Looking forward for the season!
Nice work Paul! Hope you have an awesome season!
Hey, thanks for all the great reviews. I have a few questions as I am in the market for a new all mountain board. Some info about myself. I’m 5’10” 140lbs and wear a size 7.5 snowboard boot. I have 1 season of snowboarding under my belt with about 40 days of riding and I can do some blakc diamonds. My favorite runs are through trees, but I like to hit every part of the mountain including a little park.
Would the Yes Standard be a good board for my needs or would it be a little to advanced? I’m also concerned the extra width might slow down my turns with a small boot size (Employee in a board shop mentioned this). I’m also looking at the Capita Mercury, Never Summer West, and the Jones Mountain Twin. For my needs, what board would be best? And I should stick with 153-154cm right? Thanks for the help!
Hi Will
In terms of width, if a board is to wide for you, it can definitely make a board turn slower/feel more lethargic. However, a lot of boards these days are designed to be a bit wider but to be ridden a bit shorter – the extra width makes up for the loss of surface area for going shorter and the shortened length (shorter boards are quicker turners) makes up for the extra width, in terms of maneuverability. So the YES Standard is one of these boards but only subtly so – there are boards made these days that you size down as much as 10cm for but the width is quite wide. The Standard isn’t that wide and you don’t need to size down that much – more like 3-ish cms down, I would say.
I would put you at anything from a 152cm to 154cm in terms of length and between 240mm to 246mm waist width in terms of width.
So for the Standard, I would go with the 151cm (248mm waist) if you were to choose this board. That way you’re going a little shorter. In this case you’re not going that much shorter – but it’s also not overly wide for you – wider than ideal, just. But taking a little bit of length off balances that out.
I’d say this board would suit you really well from what you’re describing and I don’t think it would be too advanced either. It’s definitely not a beginner board but it’s intermediate and up – and even though you’ve only had one season, it sounds like you’re already at an intermediate level – some people take 4 season’s to rack up 40 days, so you’ve had a bit of time on snow now. So yeah, I think this board would be a great choice – just remember to size down to the 151cm.
In fact, this board isn’t even that wide at the width compared to the other options you mentioned at similar lengths.
For the others you mentioned, I would go for:
Capita Mercury: 153cm (252mm waist)
Never Summer West: 152cm (248mm waist)
Jones Mountain Twin: 151cm (248mm waist)
I think the Mercury doesn’t really have a good size for you, but the other 2 would work – as well as the Standard.
The other reason I like the sound of a 151cm for you is that you like to ride trees. I find riding a board that’s slightly shorter is great for the trees.
Hope this helps with your decision.
One thing I forgot to mention. The Standard does cinch in at the waist a bit more than most boards – so the 151 will be a little wider at the inserts than the West 152 and the Mountain Twin 151, even though it has the same waist width.
Thanks Nate, I really appreciate the detailed response! You definitely helped my decision, but I’m still having the trouble pulling the trigger. I’m sure I am just over thinking it and I’ll be happy no matter which board I got. I think I want to get the board with the quickest turn.
One last question; If you had to have just 1 board in your quiver, which would you pick for my riding preferences? If it matters, my bindings are Burton Cartels. Thanks again Nate!
Hi Will
I think the safest bet is the Mountain Twin or West – I think the Standard could work for you but it’s a bigger risk with being slightly wider, with 7.5 boots.
In terms of the main differences between the 2 of those, I’d say that the West has a slightly looser feel to it – not overly loose but looser than the Mountain Twin, which has a very stable feel. But I’d say that the West is a quicker turner.
The Cartels are a good match for any of these boards.
Thanks Nate! Really appreciate all the help. I’m pretty sure I am going to get the Jones Mountain Twin 151. Last question, promise. Is it worth it to step up to the Jones Ultra Mountain Twin or is that unnecessary for me?
Hi Will
The Ultra Mountain Twin is one of those boards that I keep meaning to demo, but just haven’t yet! Next season for sure!
But by the sounds of it, there’s not a huge difference in performance. Maybe slightly better at speed, slightly better carver and a bit more pop. Though Jones rate both boards with the same flex level, I’ve heard people say that the Ultra is a little bit stiffer flexing.
For an extra $100, I’m not sure – that would be up to you in terms of whether it’s worth it or not.
I get this question a lot, so demoing the Mountain Twin and Ultra side by side will be my first priority when demoing 2019 gear!
Thanks again Nate! I bought the Yes Standard 151. I had the same waist width as the Mountain Twin and was only slightly wider at the tip and tail so I don’t think it will affect me too much. It will be a huge upgrade over my current board, Sapient 153cm (Some The-House off brand or something). Thanks!
You’re welcome Will. Enjoy the new board!
Hey Nate,
I have one more question about the Yes Standard. I bought the 151 and I was convinced it will be a perfect board for me. However, a gearhead at Backcountry emailed me about my order and suggested I might have a better fit on 153 due to my size (5’10” 140lbs 7.5 boot). What do you think? Will the 151 give me enough float and allow some big mountain stuff? And is the 153 really going to turn a lot slower? I’ve only ever ridden 1 board so I don’t know how much an effect width has. Thanks again for all your help!
Hi Will
I still think the 151cm for you for this board. 253mm is getting pretty wide for you with 7.5s – and that would be fine if you sized down the length a bit. But given that I’d put you on around a 153 or 154 for your advanced all-mountain length, then going 153cm isn’t sizing down the length – but you are going pretty wide for 7.5s, IMO.
Even the 248mm on the 151cm is at the wider end of the range for 7.5s – still in the range but at the wider end – so going shorter is ok, in that case IMO. Also, even though YES don’t publish weight recommendations like some other snowboard companies do I did find a retailer who do their own weight recommendations and for both the 151 and 153, they have a range of 135 to 175. Now, as much as it’s strange that they would give the same weight range for these two boards, it would put you at the lower end for both, in terms of weight.
I would say it would be more accurate to have the 151 as 125 to 165 pounds and this would be more in line with 2017’s 152cm (248mm waist) which is a pretty similar size. This would put you right in the middle for that one. Not that I take weight recommendations too much into account, but this is just another reason that leans me towards the 151.
That said, the 153cm isn’t way off – it’s still going to be a suitable board for you – I just think that the 151 is going to be slightly more suitable. In terms of big mountain stuff and if you’re going to be in a lot of deep powder, then yeah the 153 is going to perform better in those situations. But for an all-round size for you, given that you like to hit the park and the trees too – then I think the 151 is a better balance – you could still for sure take the 153 into the park and the trees, it’s just not going to work quite as well as the 151. And you can still take the 151 Big Mountain, it’s just not going to work as well as the 153.
Hope that makes sense. Anyway, I won’t be offended if you go with Backcountry’s recommendation, but I still think 151 is overall the best size for you. Did you explain to them how you like to ride?
The only other thing that Backcountry might be considering, that I just remembered, is that they have narrowed the stance options for the 2018 Standard.
So the max stance you can have on the 151 is now 550mm (21.5″). They might be thinking this is narrow for 5’10”. I think it’s still doable and the board has been designed with these stance widths in mind (though I still would have liked to see them leave some wider stance options open). If you went to the 153 you’d get the option to go to 560mm (22″).
I’d say for 5’10” that it would be fine at 21″ so 21.5″ would give you a bit of leeway there – but if you do like a wider stance, then that is another consideration.
Thanks Nate, I really appreciate the detailed responses you give. I think I am going to stick with the 151 Yes Standard. My stand width never went above 21.5″ so I’ll be fine in that department. And the Yes 153 is about the same width as a a 158W Jones Mountain Twin at the tip and tail and the same waist width as a 157. I’m worried that will be too wide for my needs and slow down my turns. If it turns out I really want a powder/big mountain board, I can always grab that down the line.
Thanks again Nate, you’re awesome!
You’re very welcome Will!
Hey mate,
Just wondering how you think this board would go in deep powder like in Japan? Seems decent for a twin.
Thanks very much great reviews!
Hi Jarrod
Yeah, the Standard would be fine in deep powder, I reckon. I only rode it centered but if you got on those slam back inserts, it would improve that powder performance quite a bit. Even centered it did pretty well – but would definitely improve with that setback stance. My powder rating here does take into account an estimation for the slam backs. I’d be thinking more like 3.5/5 for centered.
It’s not going to float like a long nosed, heavily rockered in the nose, directional, heavily set back powder or freeride board of course, but if you want something that do other things – like go in the park, ride the trees, ride the groomers, ride switch, butter etc as well as ride the powder, then it’s a good choice. If you’re basically just going to be riding powder and carving the groomers, then there are better options that sacrifice in other areas, but in terms of if you want something that’s versatile but can also handle the powder, then something like this is the way to go.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate
Love your reviews and have been reading into a lot of them lately and am really interested in getting the Yes Standard but just wanted to reach out to you with some concerns regarding sizing. I’m 6’3″ and 170lbs with a size 12-13 boot. I was just concerned over whether the lack of wide sizes for the 2018 boards would be problematic with my boot size and result in too much overhang. Also what size would you recommend? I was thinking the 159 would be best but was wondering if you had a different view.
Thanks man
Hi Josh
I think the 159 would be a great size for you, for this board – and the 263mm waist width on that will be fine for size 12s. It would be pushing it to being too narrow for size 13s though. You’d probably still get away with it but it would be cutting it finer. If you had low profile boots, then you’d be safer, even on 13s.
I would definitely recommend getting boots first, so you know for sure. If you go with something like Adidas, Burton or Ride, then they all have good reduced footprint, which would make it easier for you to get on that board. I’d say with those brands that you’d be fine on the 159, even if you ended up on 13s.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the quick response.
I believe I will end up going with the Burton Photon Boa boots in size 13 and the Burton Cartel bindings. My only question that remains is that since I do plan to go with a burton boot and binding set-up, would it be best to go with a burton snowboard as well to get full use of Burton EST? As it was the 2 boards I was deciding between were the 159 Yes Standard and the 159W Burton Flight Attendant. So would it be best to go with the Burton board as well or are the benefits of EST not worth giving up the Yes Standard
Thanks once again
Hi Josh
You could go all Burton, if you were getting Burton Cartel EST bindings, and the Flight Attendant is a great board, IMO. But I would class it as a different type of board than the YES Standard. I would categorize the Flight Attendant as a Freeride board.
The main differences between these two boards, IMO:
1. The Flight Attendant is going to be a bit better when it comes to Speed, Carving and Powder – those are the main things this board is made for
2. The Standard is going to be considerably better for riding switch and for jumps
3. The Standard has slightly better edge-hold in hard/icy conditions
4. The Flight Attendant is marginally stiffer than the Standard – Standard 6/10, Flight Attendant 7/10
5. The Standard 159 is a little wider than the 159W FA – and will be more accommodating for your size 13s.
Overall the Standard is more of an all-round board, more versatile. Whereas the FA is more geared towards one style of riding.
Burton Re:Flex bindings still flex really well with the board – so if you think the YES Standard is the right board for you, then I would go Burton Cartel Re:Flex, with the YES Standard. If you thought that the Flight Attendant might suit you better, then go with that board – and you can decide to get either EST (to maximize board feel) or Re:Flex (sacrifice a little in board feel but have the versatility to put them on other boards if you needed to) .
I would base my decision on the board that you think will be the most suitable for you.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hi nate
I have a custom 158 at the moment but Im looking at getting a jones mountain twin or the yes standard 2017 im 5″6 and 73k at the moment what size and board would be best for a short and stumpy guy?
Hi Stu
Thanks for your message.
I think the following sizes would suit you best.
YES Standard 2017: 156cm – if you were to go for the 2018 model, then I’d say the 153 (depending on your boot) sizes. Even for the 2017 model, 154cm is definitely a possibility. But since you’re used to a 158cm, then it will less of a sizing down, so will be easier to transition to the 156cm.
Jones Mountain Twin: 157cm but I would be tempted to say 154cm for this too. I would usually say 154 for you – but since you’re coming from a 158, then maybe the 157 would be an easier transition – especially since you’re coming from an all-camber 158 (assuming you’re not talking about the Custom Flying V).
But to give you a more accurate sizing, can you let me know a couple more things.
1. Your boot size
2. What is your ability level?
3. How do you like to ride? trees, steeps, bowls, park, jibs, jumps etc
That way I will be able to give a more accurate recommendation.
Hi Nate…I’m 5’ 10 about 80kg been riding a 163 Head Board for a while, probably not right size for me as it was a gift…what size do you think I should get, looking for new setup and either this Yes Standard or Burton Process Flying V 2017…intermediate level rider I guess…thanks!
Hi Dean
Yeah, in my opinion that size is a bit too long for you. I think something between a 156 and 159 would be a good size. I would be leaning towards the earlier end of that spectrum as an intermediate rider, but since you are now used to a 163, then probably leaning towards the longer end.
The sizing for the Standard will depend on which year you get, and also your boot size will come into, so if you can let me know that, then I can give a more accurate size recommendation.
~ Standard 2017: 158 (or 159W if you’ve got roughly US10.5+ boot size)
~ Standard 2018: Probably 156 (but would depend on boot size)
~ Process Flying V: 159 (or 159W if roughly US11+ boot size)
But yeah, if you can let me know your boot size, that would be awesome.
Hope this helps
Cool yeah sorry I’m a UK size 8 to 9, been leaning toward the process Flying V 159 if I’m honest as it looks a pretty cool board too but would be open to other twin recommendations. Why does the later year model for the Yes Standard drop in length? Also I’m used to Flow bindings (I know!) so been looking at the NX2 GT 2018 model, appreciate the advice 🙂 Thanks, Dean
Hi Dean
Thanks for the extra info. Yeah definitely don’t go wide, then.
The Standard 2018 changed sizes quite a bit from the 2017 model. All their sizes got wider. So unless you have wider feet, then you would ride this board shorter as it’s a wider length. Going shorter will compensate for edge to edge speed, because of the extra width. This has it’s advantages (trees being the obvious one) and there are quite a lot boards that are doing this these days. The Standard is a moderate version. Some boards are made to size down up to 10cm – but have a really wide width.
But yeah, usually 258mm would be a tad wide for your boot size, but dropping a bit of length compensates for that.
So, based on your boot size, then I would go:
~ Standard 2017: 158
~ Standard 2018: 156
~ Process Flying V: 159
But yeah, if you like the sound of the Process Flying V, then that’s a good option and I think you’ll appreciate that board and length over what you’re currently riding.
I haven’t ridden Flow bindings for a few years now, so I can’t really comment on the NX2 GT.
One more question please Nate I’ve now looked at the Yes Pick Your Line, what are your thoughts on this board and again 159 length for me..? Thanks, Dean
Hi Dean
If you were going to go for Pick Your Line, then 159 would be the size to go for you, I would say. However, the PYL is a very stiff board and I don’t think it would be that suitable as an intermediate rider.
Hi Nate,
Looking at Yes Standard 2018 either 156 or 159. I’m 5ft 10, weigh 224 Ibs, Size 11(US) Thirty two TM2 boots.
Looking to use in BC revelstoke & Red mountain & europe. All mountain use, bit of park (basic skills) – kickers and rails and boxes, some flatland spins, Powder and off piste riding, the Yes standard will be for when I want a more relaxed shred to the stiffer Jones Aviator (158w) (last years model). The ride Warpig (Small) which I’ll use for heavy pow days.
Just thinking the Yes Standard 159 with waist width of 26.3 maybe a big sluggish- slower edge to edge for my foot size, but then again it will have more float. I’d prefer the 156 because I like the waist width of 25.8 and being shorter would be more nimble and freestyle orientated, just not sure of my weight sacrificing float.
So that’s where I’m stuck between the 2 sizes.
Thanks in advance
Hi Jason
I can see your dilemma!
Usually, I would straight away say 159 for you, given your specs – and I don’t think the 263mm waist would be too wide for you with 11s, given that your specs suggest something a little longer than 159 – so going down in length helps to accommodate the extra width.
However, since you already have your aviator in 158W, and you want to use the Standard more for your freestyle days. I would definitely say 159 if it was going to be your one board – but since you want to use it as your more freestyle oriented board, the 156 is tempting.
I couldn’t say for sure how the 156 would perform for you in powder – but it would definitely loose powder performance over the 159 – whether that decrease would make it unrideable or un-fun in powder, I couldn’t say. I found the 156 was fine in powder – but I’m 180-185lbs, so it’s not a direct comparison.
But I’m tempted to lean towards the 156 – just because it sounds like you lean towards a shorter length and if you want it as your more relaxed days, the only thing is the powder, so that would be the risk.
Hope this gives you more to go off
Thankyou Nate,
It’s always great reading your objective opinions and reviews with knowledgeable info made simple.
You’re spot on with my dilemma! appreciate your valuable thoughts and advice.
So have purchased the 156 though may change my mind to the 159 when I pick it up for better powder float in relation to my weight and as you mentioned 159 is already shorter than my recommended length for all terrain and freestyle will still be ok.
Guess I’ll regretably sell the Rome Blur from new as can’t carry that many boards on any given trip.
All the best
Regards
Jason
You’re very welcome Jason. Hope you have an awesome season!
Hi Nate,
Thanks for the great reviews, I bought a ‘Yes the greats’ last year on your recommendation and loved it. You were spot on.
This year I fancy a Yes Standard for the alround ability including those powder days.
My last years ‘the greats’ was a 158 and that suited me well, tons of fun. I going for a 2018 Standard and was edging towards a 156 because of the increased waist size, which is quite a bit even from the 2017 Yes the greats 158.
I’m 6ft, 195lbs and size UK 10 boots (us 11?) – what are your thoughts?
Hi Geoff
Thanks for your message and awesome that you’re loving the Greats!
I think for your specs the 159 Standard is probably the best bet. For you I would say around a 161cm for do-it-all kind of riding, and with UK10s, I would say that something between 254mm and 260mm would be a good width to go with. The Standard 159 (2018 model) has a 263mm waist width – but you’re dropping a couple of centimeters going to the 159, so that balances it out.
The 156 would be doable, since it’s wider than what you’ve got now, which would give you similar surface area to what you have now. However, because of two things, i think the 159 is the better bet
1. The effective edge on the Standard 159 is less than the Greats 158, and the 156 would be even less again. So in terms of effective edge, you are going lower anyway on the 159.
2. Since you want the Standard as your all-mountain board, and for tackling powder, then I think you want something that has a bit more surface area under it than your 158 Greats. The 156 Standard wouldn’t have much more under it than the 158 Greats I would imagine (it’s more suited for powder in other ways, but surface area is an important factor for float).
Anyway, long story short, I think the 159 would be the best size for you for the Standard. 156 wouldn’t be a disaster at all, but on balance I think the 159.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Thanks for your detailed reply.
You’ve been bang on the money with your reviews on my last 2 purchases – yes greats with burton genesis- that I value your opinion.
159 it is.
Thanks again.
You’re very welcome – hope you enjoy your new board and have an awesome season!
Hello Nate, I’m about same stats as Geoff is, but wearing a 10US boots. Do you think 159 would work for me too? I do plan to put some responsive bindings (Union Factory) to compensate that extra width.
Thanks!
Hi Aleksandr
I think you could go 159 with US10s. I would personally go with the 156 – US10s but I’m more like 180lbs – so I think that with a bit of extra weight that the 159 becomes more suitable for you.
The only thing would be how you were planning to use the Standard. If you think you’ll probably do quite a bit of freestyle stuff on it, then the 156 becomes more tempting. But if you think you’ll mostly be riding groomers, carving, hitting powder (when you can) and that sort of thing, if those are the most important things to you, then 159 is probably your best bet.
Hi Nate, I do mostly groomers and powder, so will look towards 159. Thanks a lot!
You’re very welcome. Hope you enjoy your new board and have an awesome on it!
Hey Nate,
I’ve read every comment and they’ve been instrumental in my decision making. I’m 5’8″, 132lbs, boot sizes range from US9.5-10.5 depending on brand and can’t find the 149cm board in stock in the states. For a freestyle rider who prioritizes turning ease over speed is the 151 perfect or too long? Or does my boot size limit my options? Again, I think your comment responses have been worth their weight in gold – thank you.
Hi Scott
Thanks for your message.
First, in terms of width, I think you would be fine on the 151 with US10s or less, assuming that you are riding on something like +15/-15 angles. If you have a straighter back leg, then it will be getting a bit narrow. With 10.5s, it would be more risky, even with 15 degrees on your back foot – but you might still be ok – but it would be riskier. On the 149, I think you’d be fine with 9.5s and +15/15 or +12/-12 or something like that but anything more than a 9.5 or straigher angles would be getting pretty narrow.
In terms of length, I think the 151 is doable for you, if you are at an advanced level, but I think 149 would be a better length. I know it’s only a couple of cms but it can make a noticeable difference.
Have you thought about the Typo or even the Jackpot if you’re a more freestyle oriented rider? They have 149s (which are also a little wider than the Standard 149). Or are you set on the Standard? If you really want the Standard, then the 151 is doable for you (keeping in mind comments about width) and probably the best option in terms of width too.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Thanks Nate,
I went ahead with the 151 and used the link in your review. I’ll likely pick up a another board for the quiver with a more freestyle feel to it another year. Thanks again! Not a lot of information out there on boot width.
You’re very welcome Scott. Hope you have an awesome season and enjoy your new board!
Hey Nate,
I’m an intermediate rider who does mostly groomers and was wondering whether you think the 156 or 159 size would be better suited for me. I’m 6’3″ and weigh 175 lbs with size 12 burton boots.
-Thanks
Hi Josh
For you I think the 159 is the best option. This is going to be a good fit in terms of waist width too. You could possibly get on the 156 (258mm waist) in terms of width, if you have binding angles that have a back foot angle of 12 or 15 degrees. Even then I would normally say too narrow for size 12s, but since this board has mid-bite (which means that the waist is essentially cinched in so that the width at the inserts are wider than they would be on the average board with the same waist width) and you have Burton boots, then I think you would be fine. But if your back foot tends to be straighter, then the width on the 156 gets risky in terms of being to narrow.
But regardless of that, I think the 159 is a better size anyway. I would ordinarily recommend something around 161 for you as an intermediate rider, but, for this board I would say to drop down a couple of cms as it’s a little wider than your average board. I think the 156 would be going too small – and since it’s on the narrow side for your boots, then I think that you wouldn’t want to drop that much length. Hope this makes sense.
Long story short – the 159, for you, for sure.
Hope this helps
I’m skimming through all the comments and now I feel bad for this, but I’m going to hop on the train and ask for sizing advice for the 2018 Standard.
I’m basically looking for a do-anything board that will be my only board. I’ve never been in a terrain park before, or tried tricks, so I’m leaning towards something more all-mountain than freestyle, but I really don’t have the experience to rule it out. I generally board on the east coast, but I’ll be going out west this winter and may run into some powder.
I weigh about 175, I’m 6ft tall, and I think I’ll be in a 10.5 Adidas boot. Would the 156cm be the correct size? Based on the reading I’ve done (this would be the first board I’ve owned), I should generally be in the 158-160 range for a normal board, but it sounds like with this one I could size down.
Similar question for the Yes Typo. Would a 159 be an appropriate size? I’ve been worried about boots fitting a standard width board appropriately, since all the boots I’ve been trying have been in the 10.5-11 range.
Additionally, would you be able to give me a quick comparison between the Typo and the Standard? Basically every review I’m looking at says they’re both good at everything, which is unhelpful, but there’s a 50$ difference. What does that 50$ get me (aside from a much sexier topsheet)?
Thanks so much.
Hi Jonathan
Thanks for your message. Yeah, I think the 156 is probably the best bet for you. In general, sizing down a bit for this board is a good idea, unless you’ve got particularly big boots. But with 10.5s, and your specs, I’d say the 156 is the best size. I’d say ordinarily you’d be on a 159 – 161. But for this board I’d go 156.
In terms of width generally, size 10s, I’d say try to go no narrower than 252mm – but that’s only if you have binding angles that have a back foot angle of around 12-15 degrees. With a straighter angles you’d want to go a little wider. So if you had a completely flat back foot, then I’d say 258mm would be around where you’d want to be. With Adidas being a low profile boot, you can take off a couple of millimeters for those measurements.
Note that the Standard has a tech called “mid-bite” which essentially cinches it in at the waist, so even though the 156 has a 258mm waist, it’s wider generally than other boards with a 258mm waist.
For the YES Typo, I’d say the 158 would be a good size for you (assuming certain binding angles), assuming you are an intermediate rider or up. If you’re really advanced, then you could even go to the 161. If you have straighter binding angles, or a straighter back foot, then the 159W is probably more appropriate.
There are quite a few differences between the Standard and the Typo.
1. for starters their shapes are quite different. As discussed, the Standard is a wider board and has that “mid-bite” in it. For example the 156 Standard (258mm waist) has 304.5mm tip and tail whilst the 156W Typo (259mm waist) has 302.9mm tip and tail. So even the wide version of Typo is narrower – even with a mildly wider waist.
2. The Typo is designed with a slight setback (5mm so very subtle), whereas the Standard is centered ordinarily with the option of a the slam back inserts. A lot of riders like to set up centered for the groomers and park and then setback for riding powder – so the Standard allows this.
3. The Standard is stiffer flexing. This is one of the major differences – I’d say that the Typo is around a 4.5/10 flex, whereas the Standard is more like 6/10.
4. The Standard is a Directional Volume twin. What that means is that basically the shape is a twin shape but there is more volume in the nose – so the tail is a bit narrower than the nose – but without tapering the sidecut. The Typo has essentially a twin shape – but the stance is setback a bit.
5. The Typo has underbite, which works really well for edge-hold in hard/icy conditions
6. The Standard has a slightly different camber profile. They both have Hybrid Camber profiles (camber between and under the feet, with rocker tip and tail), but there the rocker tip and tail is more pronounced on the Typo than it is on the Standard, giving the Standard a slightly more cambery feel (though there’s still plenty of rocker in there) and the Typo a slightly more playful feel.
7. They have different side-cuts, giving their turns a different feel.
8. The Standard has bamboo in the core – otherwise both have poplar cores.
And there could be more but those are the main things. What this translates to is.
1. The Standard is better on a carve, more stable at speed and better in powder (when on the setback slam backs, but can still ride powder centered)
2. The Typo has better edge-hold in hard/icy conditions – but the Standard isn’t bad in this area either
3. The Standard has got a little more pop for jumps/ollies
4. Their both about the same for riding switch, when the Standard is centered
5. The Typo is better for jibs
6. The Typo is better for beginner riders than the Standard. The Standard is more of an intermediate and up board
If you haven’t seen my review on the Typo, you can also check that out here.
>>YES Typo Review
Hope this helps
Nate – Thanks for your killer reviews!
Question, if you would kindly provide some of your sage advice…
I’m liking everything I read about the 2018 Yes Standard and just looking for some sizing help. Torn b/w the 156 and 159.
I’m 6’1″, 175-180 lbs, size 11 1/2 Adidas Response (reduced profile) boot. Currently ride the 2014 Jones Mountain Twin 158W. Been riding for 20 years, I’d say pretty advanced rider. Enjoy all terrain – groomers, pow, glades, sidehits and occasional park laps. East coast rider, but do two or three trips a year for CO/Utah mountains.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance!
~Alex
Hi Alex
Thanks for your message.
It’s a close call between the 156 and 159 for you. Normally I’d definitely say 159 but with the Standard sizing down to the 156 becomes an option.
Width-wise, it should definitely be wide enough for Adidas 11.5s – and especially given the “mid-bite” on the Standard which is essentially a cinched in waist. So the tip/tail and inserts are wider than you would expect from a 258mm waist. If you have binding angles like +15/-15 then it would be easily wide enough but even if you ride with a really straight back foot it should be wide enough.
For me, I’m definitely 156, even though I would usually ride 159 for this type of board. But because of that extra width, it’s nice to size down. But I have size 10 boots – so the 156 is actually quite wide for me. Otherwise my specs are similar allbeit a little shorter and a little heavier (6’0″ and 185lbs). For your boots the 156 won’t be overly wide – it will be a good width, but you still get the advantages of a wider board and that makes dropping a bit of length an option.
The 159 (263mm waist) is also still an option. This will be on the wide side for your boots, but 159 still isn’t crazy long for your specs, so I think you’ still be good on the 159.
The 156 is still going to have an effective edge that’s shorter than what you would be used to – the effective edge on the 156 is 116.3cm compared to the 118cm on your Mountain Twin. The 159 has a 118.8cm effective edge. So when you’re on edge, it’s still going to feel shorter than what you have. So, in terms of stability at speed the 159 is going to be better in that respect – and will be better in powder. Though the 156 will be as good or better than your current 158W in powder – in terms of surface area anyway – and if you get in those slam backs, then it certainly won’t lack in the pow. Also the extra width still gives you extra stability for landings. It’s just when your on edge that you might notice it feeling shorter.
But that said there are benefits to going shorter too – I prefer shorter in trees and for spins, jibs and butters. And the 156 will feel quicker edge-to-edge too.
Sorry I haven’t given you a definitive answer here – both are options and will have their own strengths and weakness. Hopefully this gives you more to go off.
Thanks for the detailed comments. That was helpful. I just ordered the 156, think it will be a tad more fun. Can’t wait to give it a go!
You’re very welcome Alex. Hope you enjoy the new board! Let me know what you think once you’ve had a chance to ride it.
Hi Nate,
The last few years I’ve been riding a 2012 K2 Raygun 164W board. Now has come the time to replace it with something better (sintered) and slightly smaller. I’m intermediate and mainly ride groomers and if available, hit some powder shortcuts in between the slopes. Not that much freestyle apart from the occasional jump on a natural kicker. Where I ride it can get quite icy so I need good edge hold. Had too many bruised ribs and wrists so I prefer a board that’s somewhat forgiving rather than aggressive.
Size wise I’m 6.1, 180lbs (without gear) with boot size US12.
I’m hesitating between the Yes Standard 159 (can get good deal on that one) and the Yes Typo (159W or 163W?). The Typo is more groomer oriented if I’m right?
Jones Explorer (161W) is also an option of course.
What’s your rec.?
Thx !
Hi Alain
Thanks for your message.
I think you’ll appreciate something a little shorter. 164 isn’t way too long for you, but I’d put you more around a 161, 162. And going to 159, particularly on something like the Standard, is definitely an option.
You could say that the Typo is more groomer oriented – just a small setback and pretty close to being a twin – and it’s a better softer flexing than the Standard. But the Standard in it’s normal setup is actually centered and it’s also pretty close to being a twin – it’s just got a bit less volume in the tail which just helps it to sink in the powder (which helps to lift the nose). And then you’ve got the slam back inserts if you want to get more setback for powder days.
In terms of sizing, I would say that the 159W Typo (261mm waist), is pushing it a little bit for 12s. I’d say you’d be fine so long as you had binding angles +15-/15 but anything with a straighter back foot and it would be pushing it too narrow. The 163W would give you a bit more breathing space, but I think it sounds like you want to go shorter than that, and I think that’s probably a good call.
The 159 Standard would be a great size for you IMO. The Standard is cinched in at the waist (what YES call ‘Mid-Bite’) – so the board is wider at the inserts and the tip/tail than the waist width would suggest. So you’d have no problems with width on that, IMO. And because of that extra width, the 159 is also a great length for you, IMO.
The 161W Explorer (264mm waist) is also a great option for you, IMO and should be fine waist wise, just so long as you don’t ride with like a completely straight (0 degrees) back foot).
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
I’m on a +21+6 stance. Yeah probably will choose between the standard 159 and explorer 161w. Coincidentally those two aren’t sold out yet, unlike other wide boards.
Do both these boards ride the same or are they different beasts altogether?
thx for the input, appreciate it.
Hi Alain
They are definitely different rides. I wouldn’t say that either are overly aggressive, but they’re not overly playful either. The Explorer you can get quite aggressive on it, but it’s also not unforgiving when you want to slow it down. I’d say similar for the Standard. But they are different feeling rides for sure.
In terms of the Mountain Twin, I would say that the 161W (260mm waist) is going to be a bit narrow for 12s with those binding angles. And the 164W is getting long and is also potentially too narrow.
The 161W Explorer is a little wider (264mm at the waist) and you would probably get away with that with your binding angles and 12s. But that’s probably the narrowest I would go. The Standard would give you a bit more space at the inserts.
Also, I forgot to mention before that the Standard is a little better in icy conditions than the Explorer or Mountain Twin, IMO. The Explorer/MT aren’t bad – i’d say 4/5 – but I’d say the Standard is better.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
I got a really good deal on a 161W Explorer, so that’s the one I will be taking to Austria in a few weeks. Looking forward to it.
Big thx for the personal advice, appreciate it.
cheers
alain
You’re very welcome Alain. Hope you enjoy your new board and have an awesome time riding in Austria!
I currently have a YES Typo. I really like the board, but wish it had a little more float in powder and also a bit more speed. Do you think the standard is a good choice as an upgrade? Other suggestions? Thanks!
Hi Brian
Yeah, the Standard will give you a bit more float. It’s stance is normally centered, which is obviously not ideal for powder, but you can put it into the “slamback” inserts so you can setback on powder days. The other thing that helps with float with the Standard is their Directional Volume Twin – which basically has a little less volume in the tail which helps it to sink and therefore lift the nose a little more. In terms of speed, it’s more stable at speed than the Typo and just faster in general, in my opinion.
Just note that with the Standard you’ve got to think a little differently in terms of sizing. It’s quite a wide board – even wider than the waist width suggests, because of the “mid-bite” which cinches the board in at the waist. If you do decide to go with this board, I can recommend a good size for you, if you’d like. I’d just need your height, weight and boot size.
You could check out this list for some other options – ratings for powder and speed are under each board.
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
Hope this helps
Hey Nate, I’m considering a standard. I’m 5’9” about 145-150 with gear on and wear a 9.5 boot I’m since it’s a wider board what do you recommend size wise?
Hi James
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, because of the extra width, I would recommend sizing down for this board. Usually, I would say something around a 154 for an all-mountain board but for this board I think the 151 is your best size. You could go 153, but I think the 151 is going to be a better fit for you.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
Im having a really hard time while trying to decide my next board. I have tried to replace my current Burton Vapor 156 for a years now but always find my way back to it 🙂 just a great board but a bit too small and I want something a bit more playful and better float. I have Burton Fish (solid and split) for deep days and off piste so what Im looking for is more for the piste; carving on the groomers, hitting every small jumps on the way and buttering. Also worth of mention that when ever I see soft untouched snow, thats where I go! I don’t do park or pipe a lot but would like to improve my basic trick skills tho…
After 20+ years of snowboarding with season tickets I would say Im pretty advanced rider 🙂 I also have 100+ riding days per year to choose so no need to go out and get angry when slopes are icy.
I have narrowed my options for these: YES The Greats, YES Standard and Capita DOA. I just hope that I have change to test these (and others) boards but unfortunately its impossible in my country. I know all of these are great boards and I wont go wrong no matter which I choose but just want your comparison fo these three.
Im 183cm and 80kg. My foot is US10,5-11. So my options at the moment is The Greats 158, Standard 156 or DOA 158 (or 160). What do you think?
Thanks for the great reviews and website. Have an awesome season!
Cheers from Finland, -Jyri-
Hi Jyri
Thanks for your message.
I think the Standard sounds like a good option for you. And sizing-wise, I think you’re probably spot on for that board. As it’s a bit wider, you want to go a little shorter. And the width should be fine there for 10.5-11s. The advantage of this over the Greats and the DOA is that it’s going to float a little better in soft snow.
But the Greats is also a great (excuse the pun!) option. It’s going to be a little softer, more playful than the Standard and a little better for short sharp turns. It’s also a little better for riding switch and jumps, IMO. Just not quite as good a float in deeper powder – but you can definitely ride on it, it’s just harder work keeping the nose afloat. And I’d say still better in powder than the DOA. The 158 is a good length for you for this board, IMO. In terms of width you should be fine on either 10.5 or 11s, assuming you ride +15/-15 binding angles. For this type of board (asym twin) it is recommended that you ride these kinds of binding angles, so I’d recommend that for this board anyway.
DOA is a good option too – and the 158 is what I would pick for you. Same applies for the width as for the Greats, in terms of wanting to have those angles there. It’s not an asym board, so you can have any angles you want there – but just in terms of fitting on the board width-wise, having a decent angle on the back foot is a good idea.
Any of those would work for you but based on what you’re describing, I think the YES Greats and Standard would be your best options, and I would be leaning towards the Greats for you.
Hope this helps
P.S.
The greats 156 is available as well for 420.
So when getting 2 boards, which ones would you choose and why.
If getting one, same question.
Sorry to bother you this much, I’m really bad at choosing…
cheers!
Hi Bruno
No need to apologize, this is what I do!
If you were going to go with 2 boards, then I would say go Greats and Brainstorm. The Brainstorm would give you more in powder for those powder days and the Greats would be your all-mountain-freestyle deck. The reason I would go for the Brainstorm over the Standard in a two board quiver, is that the Brainstorm is setup to be setback all the time, whereas the Standard is something that is usually centered but is designed so you can put it into a setback stance for powder days.
So for a one board quiver, that makes the Standard quite appealing – so long as you think you could be bothered setting the bindings back on powder days. One thing to note with the Standard though, is that it’s a wider board, so it’s something that I usually recommend sizing down for – the 156 might just be a little wide in that length for you. Which would put you down to the 153, which would be a possibility but I think that’s probably getting a bit too short. So I’m not sure there’s an ideal length for that board.
And the reason I’d go Brainstorm and Greats, instead of Typo and Greats is that the Typo is a board that is closer to the Greats than the Brainstorm is – it’s only got a very small setback and it’s otherwise close to a centered twin. It’s different in a few ways to the Greats, but not as difference as the Brainstorm is compared to the Greats.
The Typo and the Brainstorm would both make good one board quivers for you (assuming you didn’t go with the Standard because of sizing). The Brainstorm will be better for the likes of powder and speed and the Typo better for riding switch and jibs. Both are equally good for carving, IMO.
Overall, I think the Brainstorm 157, for you personally, would probably be the best in terms of a one board quiver.
Thank you Nate,
this helps so much. I’m going to take the Brainstorm like you advice. Looks like a great board how you describe it.
Would you advice taking the Typo 2017 as a second board, since the price is pretty low? Or is this just a waste of money? Are the boards to similar, is the brainstorm easy to learn switch riding because of the setback? (the greats and brainstorm would be to expensive)
PS: Don’t know how i replied in the yes standard forum suddenly. 🙂
Best Regards!
Hi Bruno
The Typo is a little different to the Brainstorm, in a few ways.
1. The Brainstorm has more setback (20mm vs 5mm on the Typo)
2. The Brainstorm’s camber profile is directional – it has less rocker in the tail and the rocker in the tail is more subtle compared to in the nose. The Typo is closer to a twin in that sense.
So they’re a little different – and they have some different strengths and weaknesses – i.e. Brainstorm is better for powder, and for speed and the Typo better for learning switch on. But they’re not hugely different. The Typo is closer to a twin and closer to being centered, so it will be easier to learn switch on compared to the Brainstorm, but the brainstorm isn’t bad for riding switch, IMO. I personally wouldn’t have the two of them in my quiver together, I’d go for more difference but if you wanted something for learning Switch easier and for learning jumps and other tricks more easily, then the Typo might be an option – but personally I would go for a more freestyle oriented board to compliment it – something that’s true twin and centered – so you’ve got more of a contrast between boards.
Hey Nate,
Just wanted to let you know, I ended up buying the Greats.
I was going for the Brainstorm, but the shop had a lot of slash board with the topsheet which came loose. Since they only have 1 year waranty and Yes gives lifetime warranty I chose the Greats.
Thank you for your awesome advice. And I will let you know how this board will be for me ! Thank you again
Hi Bruno
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to hear how the Greats goes for you.
Hi Nate,
Thanks so much for these reviews! They’re fun to read and really help to make the best decision when buying new gear. In fact, I bought the Yes Standard partly because of this. I bought the 1,53 m version, but doubting the length a bit I would like to ask for a second opinion, what size would you recommend for me? I am intermediate, like to ride a bit playful and am 1,70m (5’7″) and weight is approx 70kgs (154lbs), shoe is 40 EUR (7 mens). But I ride with women 8 boots because they fit me even better, bindings same (Burton Lexa 2018). Hope I made the right choice, and would value your opinion. Thanks!
Hi Vincent
Thanks for your message.
I would put you on a 155cm for a regular all-mountain board – but this board is a little bit of a different shape – it’s a bit wider, so dropping down a couple cm off your regular length is a good idea for this kind of board. SO I think the 153 is an ok size for you. But the 151cm might be even better for you. It’s narrower, which might be a better fit for your boot size and given that you like things a bit more playful. The 151 would be more playful for you. Also as an intermediate rider, it’s not absolutely necessary, but you can take off a couple of cms there too – so taking off 4cm would be fine, in your case, IMO, for this board.
But that said, the 153 will work for you, IMO, I just think the 151 might be just that slight bit more suitable.
Hope this helps
Thanks so much Nate, definitely helps! Knowing that 153cm would work fine, although 151 slightly better I will see if I can exchange. The boards are selling out fast here though, so if the 151 is out I’ll keep the 153cm. Either way I will have a lot of fun with it. Thanks for the extra info and reassuring me in my purchase!
Hi Vincent
You’re very welcome. Hope you have an awesome season!
Hi – love the reviews. Would like your take on the right size standard for me. I’m 155 lbs, 5’ 9’’ us boot 11 and a good intermediate but only get to ride a week or so a year. Most of time on groomers but like to improve my slope side spins/butters. Ridden a 158 Custom for many years wanted something a little less catchy and forgiving to help with the above. Can I get away with the 156 or should I drop to the 153? Thanks
Hi Anesh
Thanks for your message.
Ordinarily I would put you on around a 155ish, but for this board, I’d say go 153. Even with 11US – this board is wider at the inserts than the waist width suggests – it has what YES call ‘midbite’ which essentially cinches the board at the waist. So, I think this will be a good width and going down to 153 will make it more playful. The 153cm in this case will actually be a little wider than your 158 Custom.
You could ride the 156. It’s still going to be a good length for you, and the width should be fine for 11s – but it will be wider than what you’re used to. But if you’re looking for something more playful and something for spins/butters, then the 153 is going to the better option, IMO.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate, so I’ve decided on the yes standard as my next board. I am 5’9 145-150 and an intermediate rider. I’m a us 9.5-10 and am curious if I should go with a 153 or slightly shorter.
Hi Matt
Thanks for your message. I think the 153 would work for you, but the 151 would probably be the best option for you, IMO. You are very similar specs-wise to the previous person.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate. You making good reviews and I like it. I’m stuck in choose between yes typo 158 and yes standard 156? (or maybe 153). I’m 5’10, 160lbs, intermediate to advanced rider, +18, -9 (-6), like to groom, some carve, but love playfull fellings from board, jumps and spins, buttering, and sometimes powder. Looks like full all mountain ))). Now i have capita outsiders 156, but want something with more edge holds, and more universal. Thank you.
Hi Ingy
Thanks for your message.
I think you’ll see better edge hold from either of these boards – and a bit more versatility – especially in terms of powder.
I think based on what you’re describing that the Typo 158 would be a good choice for you. It sounds like you like things quite playful and whilst you can still get playful on the Standard for sure, the Typo is just a bit more playful – you loose a little bit in terms of carving, speed and powder but not too much and you get some more in terms of playfull-ness. If you did decide to go with the Standard, then it’s a good idea to size down (as you are already thinking about, I see). Whether you went to 153 or 156 would depend on boot size. If you can let me know your boot size, I can more accurately recommend a size for the Standard if you want it.
Hope this helps
Thanks a lot for quick answer. Sry, forgot to specify the boot size – it’s 10US
Hi Ingy
I’d almost say go to 153 for the Standard. It would be better suited to your specs all round, IMO. You could get on the 156 but it’s going to be quite wide for 10s and since you wouldn’t be sizing down that much, I’d say the 153 would be better. For me (also size 10s) I like the 156 – but I’m 6’0″ 185lbs.
But overall I think the 158 Typo is a better match for you.
Hey There Nate, awesome site man! I think I’ve hit a wall on my decision…I’m 5’8″ 165lbs and a size 8 boot. I ride as a solid intermediate and close to advanced. My choices are Never Summer West and the Yes Standard. Both great boards for sure. I ride steeps, groomers and every powder day the alberta rockies can throw at me! We unfortunately get our share of hard snow conditions so I need something with good carving ability/edge hold. I don’t hit the park too often unless my son drags me in there;-) but I will all the natural booters I can find.
I saw some reviews on the Yes that weren’t overly happy with Standard with its new wider profile..do you find it as a positive,negative or a non issue… Also my last board is a Burton Custom GiGi and I found it super catchy..really trying to avoid that this time around. Thanks for you help Nate! great work you’re doing!
Hi Chris
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, the Burton Custom is a traditional camber board, so no surprise that you found it catchy. I didn’t find the Standard or the West catchy at all.
I still really like the 2018 Standard but I think you’ve got to look at it differently in terms of traditional sizing, particularly if you don’t have big feet. It does, in some cases mean there may not be a suitable size. For me, I would usually ride around a 159, 160 for an all-mountain board, but for the Standard the 156 is a better fit for me (6’0″, 185lbs, size 10 boot). It’s still wider than I would normally ride in the 156, but sizing down the length balanced it out for me. There are pros and cons to doing this.
Going shorter in length brings back the agility and edge-to-edge speed that was lost in going wider – so that balances out quite well in my opinion – and having a shorter wider board I really like for the trees – and also for spins, butters that kind of thing. And even though I’m going shorter than I normal, the float in powder is just as good if not better – that extra width brings a lot of surface area. Also great stability for landings.
But you still loose some effective edge by going shorter, which can effect stability at speed, wide carving and edge-hold but I didn’t find this was lacking in the Standard even on the shorter size.
The West, I would size more traditionally.
For your specs, I would say something around a 156, 157 would be a good length for a traditionally shaped all-mountain board. And in terms of width you could probably even go sub-240mm at the waist if you were using binding angles like +15/-15 (something that has a decent angle on the back foot – i.e. 12-15 degrees) and as low as 242mm if you ride with a straight back foot (i.e. 0-3 degrees). I’d probably go maximum 252mm at the waist.
The other thing with the Standard is that it’s wider than the waist width suggests too – as the waist is cinched in.
So I think for the Standard you’d want to go at least down to the 151 – and then I think it’s getting a little too short for you there. So, I think there’s not that suitable a size for you there.
The West 156 would be a good bet for you, IMO. It’s still on the wider end for your boots, but it’s at a good length, IMO. You could size down to the 154 if you think you’d prefer something a little shorter, but I think the 156 would suit you better in terms of getting the most out of your powder days.
I’d say the Standard has slightly better edge-hold in icy snow conditions, but the West is pretty good there and all you would need, I would say.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision.
Hey Nate,
I’ve just received my 2018 Yes Standard in 153cm and I dont know if i’m delusional but it seems a bit too wide for me. 5’9″, 155-160lbs, size 9 boots. is the 253mm waist width too wide? i wanted a “one board quiver” type of board, but now i’m considering sending the Standard back and ordering a 152 Yes Greats. Any Suggestions?
Hi Louis
Thanks for your message.
Yeah the Standard is a wider board for sure – and wider at the inserts than the waist width would suggest because of the “mid-bite” which basically means that it’s cinched in at the waist. It’s the kind of board that you want to size down for in terms of length. But I would put you on around a 156 usually for an all-mountain board for your specs, assuming a relatively advanced ability level – so 153 is sizing down already. It will be wide for your boots, but as it’s shorter that counteracts it. But I can understand if you want a more traditionally shaped snowboard.
Generally speaking for 9s, I would say something between 248mm and 253mm if you have quite a straight back binding angle (i.e. 0-3 degrees) and more like 240mm to 250mm is you have a more angled back binding (e.g. 12-15 degrees). But with the Standard it’s a little wider than the 253mm waist suggests, so even with a very straight back binding, it’s still wide for 9s – but that shorter length brings back some of the maneuverability that’s lost with the wideness – and the wideness makes up for float in powder and landing stability for going shorter. Effective edge is still going to be shorter though.
The Greats is another board that I would size down for from your all-mountain size, not because it’s wide but because it’s an all-mountain-freestyle board and because it has a lot of effective edge per length (because of short tip and tail). But i would go down to 154 if I was you, if you’re going to be using it as a one board quiver, rather than 152. You could go 152 if you’re main game was riding freestyle – but the 154 would give you more stability at speed and more float in powder.
I would say that the Standard is a more versatile board as a one board quiver than the Greats – just that it’s going to be better for powder – the Greats biggest weakness is powder, IMO. Of course, you can ride any board in powder, but something like the Greats is just going to be a little bit more hard work keeping your nose floating in deep powder. If you don’t ride that much in deep powder, then the Greats, would be a great choice.
Check out the following lists if you’re wanting more options – “all-mountain” boards are what I would consider to be the most versatile kind of board. If you don’t ride that much in deep powder, then something “all-mountain-freestyle” (like the YES Greats) is a good bet, IMO.
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
>>My Top All-Mountain-Freestyle Snowboards
Hope this helps
Thanks for the detailed response. I decided to stick with the Standard but go with a 151 due to the waist width. Thanks again!
You’re very welcome Louis. Let me know how you get on with the 151.
Hey Nate, like quite a few others, I’m a little unsure about sizing the Yes Standard 2018 model. I’m 5’8 at 56kg, US boot size 9. My stance width is 53cm and binding angles are -6/+15. I’m pretty much freeride oriented, but enjoy a playful ride all over the mountain. I have tested two other boards this year including a Jones Ultra Mountain Twin 154 (2017 model) that felt a little catchy and unforgiving and probably was just a bit too long and stiff for my weight. The other board I tried was the Niche Knew 149 (2018 model), which I now really enjoy from powder to groomers due to its playful feel and easy manoeuvrability, though on very hard snow or ice the board gets very sketchy and hard to control. Was thinking, the Yes Standard could do the all-mountain trick for me, but am not sure about the sizing… What would you recommend? Thank you!
Hi Toby
Thanks for your message.
Yeah not too surprised the 154 Mountain Twin felt a bit big. I would say something around 150cm is a good size for you for an all-mountain board.
I think the Standard would be a good option for you. It’s something that I would usually say to size down for, unless you’ve got big feet, as it’s quite a wide board. However, moving down to the 149, it’s not as wide as it is in the other lengths. Now, it’s still going to be wider than the 245mm waist width suggests, as it’s got that “mid-bite” which basically means it’s cinched in at the waist, but it’s still going to be a good width for size 9s. I’d say perfect for 9s, so no need, IMO to size down.
Which means that the 149 would be a really good size for you, IMO.
Now it’s going to be a bit stiffer than the Knew and it’s camber to rocker rather than flat to rocker on the Knew – so it won’t quite be as playful as the Knew but it should be better in terms of control and edge-hold at higher speeds and in harder conditions.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate
Appreciate all the info you provide, great site!
I’m looking to change from my snowtrooper to something with a little more traditional camber but not full camber if that makes sense and from reviews the standard looks like a good option. I’m 6 foot and about 85kg with size 10 boots. I mainly ride in Australia so icy groomers and 10 days a year in japan, looking for something solid on groomers and good in trees and powder no park but enjoy hitting sidehits and natural jumps. Would the standard fit the bill and 156 or 159?
Thanks in Advance
Adam
Hi Nate,
Really enjoy the reviews, looking to move on from my NS Snowtrooper and looking for something that I can ride on the groomers in Aus/NZ and 10 days in japan per year, like the trees no park but will boost of side hits and natural features, I’m 6 foot and size 10 boot, current board is 159. would the standard 156 still work for japan?
Hi Adam
Yeah I think the Standard could work for you. I would go for the 156. I’d usually say longer for your specs but this is quite a wide board – the kind of board that I like to size down for. I’m very similar specs to you and I really enjoyed the 156.
In terms of powder, you get all the surface area you would expect from a longer board – in terms of powder this will float like at least a 159. So, in terms of powder no worries.
And even though it’s wide you gain back your agility through the shorter length. It’s becoming quite a popular shape for boards and there are certainly some much more extreme versions where you can size down even up to 10cm – and some of those are super-wide! One of the advantages is getting a shorter length in the trees, which can make it easier to maneuver in there.
You still get good stability on landings and flat basing, from that extra width. You do sacrifice a little in terms of effective edge, ultimately. So when you’re on an edge carving, that’s when you’ll notice it feeling more like a 156 – but otherwise it feels like a bigger board. It would have the surface area I would say roughly of the Snowtrooper in the 159 – so in terms of pow, you wouldn’t be loosing anything there.
Hope this gives you more info to go off.
Hi Nate,
Is this board also suitable for riding steep mountains ?
Thank you
Hi Nicu
I wouldn’t say it’s like top of the line for big mountain/steeps riding – but it can do it for sure. It’s the kind of board that strikes a balance between riding fast, steep, carving, powder etc – with also being able to ride more freestyle-esque – jumps, switch, etc.
Also, it would depend on the sizing you went with and that would depend on your boot size a lot for this board (as well as your height and weight of course).
So, I would say it’s suitable but not specialized in that area.
Hope this helps
Thx for your answer. The thing is that I am looking for a board that can go off piste most of times and some times big mountains . Also it would be nice to be able to do some tricks around there like jumps, spins, etc. I also searched some information about the gnu ryders choice because I find it interesting with that magnetraction on for icy conditions on big mountains and it seems also a playfull board.
I forgot to mention : my boot size is 9.5 , I weight around 187 (85kg) and I am 5.87 (1.79m) feet tall 🙂 What would you sugest ?
Thank you
Hi Nicu
Yeah, if you’re looking to incorporate jumps, spins etc in the backcountry, then the Standard is a good option for that, IMO.
Or you could check out the following too:
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
Generally speaking, I would say something around 159, 160 for your specs and that style of riding (you could go longer if you were just riding big mountain, but I think that would be a good balance if you’re also wanting to do spins – and if you are going to be riding trees too).
But for the Standard, it’s a wider board, so if you went with that I think the 156 would be the better size for you – it would be the better balance of length and width in that size for your specs, IMO.
Hope this helps
Thank’s a lot, I apreciate your answers ! 🙂
You’re very welcome Nicu
Nate,
Your reviews and insights are stellar! I’ve read through nearly all of them to avoid having to ask a question. However, here I am about to ask. After a lifetime of skiing, I picked up snowboarding two years ago. Now, I’m 43 y.o. and have begun to exceed the limits of my 155 beginner board (too short, I know). I spend about 10-12 days a year on the mountain (half east coast ice or slush, half west coast or Canada). I typically spend my time on the groomers, but I am beginning to explore and enjoy deep powder. I don’t proactively seek out jumps, rails, etc. I just like to ride stable with occasional speed and I really only want one board in my “quiver”. I would suggest I am a 5 on your skill level chart (solid on blue’s, cautious on black diamond’s).
My specs: 6 ft., 195 lbs. (+ or -5 lbs. around the holidays), just pre-ordered 11.5 (US) the Burton (Photon) Step On’s for the fall (getting harder to bend over all the time), and typically ride 12/-9. Based on your reviews, I really like how the Yes Standard sounds and looks. Finding one this late in the season is a challenge though. Given my dimensions/rider style, should I consider an available 156? Or, should I consider another option like Jones MT or UMT (which I can only find a 158W)? Or, hold out for next seasons boards?
Your advice is most welcome!
Thanks,
Tim
Hi Tim
Thanks for your message.
For your specs, style and ability, I think something around 160 would be a good length. 155 is too short for you now, but not bad as a beginner size.
For the Standard, I think the 159 would be the best size for you – and since you have 11.5s, it would be a good width too, IMO. I’d say you’d fit on the 156 too, in terms of width – I measured the inserts of the 2019 model (156) and it was 270mm and I’d say you’d want to go at least 268mm at the inserts with Burton 11.5s, so I think you’d be ok there, but I think the 159 would be a better size for you and the width would certainly still be appropriate (likely to be around 275mm at the inserts).
I’d say you’d be fine on the 158W Mountain Twin as well, in terms of width. It’s just whether the 158W or 161W would be the better option size-wise. Though the 158W Mountain Twin isn’t too much shorter, in terms of effective edge than the 159 Standard (1180mm vs 1188mm) – so it’s not way off, and might be an easier transition from your 155 than the 161 would be. The Ultra Mountain Twin is noticeably stiffer than the Mountain Twin, so whether that would be too stiff, would be my only concern with that – but the Mountain Twin would certainly be appropriate.
So yeah, if you were to go Standard, I would hold out to get a 159. For the Mountain Twin, it’s whether you think the 158W or 161W would be a better size.
Pros and Cons
~ 158W would be an easier transition, more agile at slower speeds and feel a little softer flex-wise (but that can be a pro or a con) – and better in the trees.
~ 161W would be more stable at high speed, float better in powder and be better for long wide carves
Hope this helps with your decision
Nate,
Your wise offerings will not go unheeded! I am grateful for your input and have decided to go with the Jones Mountain Twin 158W. I too believe based on your suggestions this would be the easier transition. I’ll move along in a couple more years to the next generation (and size) when I further improve my “skills”.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out. You’re a true gentleman and a definitive snowboard scholar!
Stay strong,
Tim
You’re very welcome Tim and thank you for your kind words!
Hey Nate,
I’m 5’4″, 125lbs, and wear a size 7.5US boot. All I can find right now is the 151, but I’m thinking that the 149 would be more appropriate for me. I don’t do much park, but I still do maybe one run in the park per trip. I focus more on carving and riding groomers, and I love pow when it comes. I’m on the east coast, so I’m riding ice more often. I go for a one week trip each year, and try to go for day trips over the weekend when it snows. Would buying the 151 for $425 be worth it, or should I wait for next season for a 149?
Thanks,
Cody
Hi Cody
Thanks for your message.
I think the 149 is going to be worth waiting for. For your specs it’s the better length and width, IMO. I know it’s only 2cm, but it does make a difference, especially when you couple that with the width. Up to you of course, but I’d wait until you can grab a 149 (the 2019 model has a lighter core too, which is a nice upgrade from the 2018 model).
Nate,
I figured that the 149 was the better option. There was just a part of me hoping that you’d say the 151 is a good choice, just because I want to buy it so badly. I guess I’ll wait and see if I can get a good deal on the 2019 149 model.
Thanks,
Cody
Hi Cody
Yeah, sometimes it’s hard to be patient, when you find a board you want – but yeah, I think it will be worth the wait to get the 149
Hey Nate!
I’m a solid intermediate rider who charges on east coast groomers and loves side hits. I’ll take runs through medium parks and jib lines. I currently have a Never Summer Proto 2 154, but have been going out west more frequently and want a board that suits my riding style that can ride a bit faster and handle powder better. I won’t say that I’m amazing at riding powder (living on the east coast), but I love tree runs, drop, and natural booters (though I probably don’t charge as hard as I would on groomers and parks).
I’m 5’8″, 155lbs, 9.5 boots, +15/-12. What size of the 2018 Standard would be good for my riding style? As you see with the Proto, I could probably ride a 152 and would have a ton of fun (because I do like to do tricks around side hits and presses), but at higher speeds, I feel like it gets a bit washy at times. Don’t know if the 153 would be too big due to it’s width? Yes’s website says to ride your normal size range, but in your comments to peeps, it seems like you think the additional volume is fairly significant. Appreciate any insight you may have!
Hi Ricky
Thanks for your message (and sorry for the delayed reply, have been on vacation).
Personally I think the 153 would be the best size for your specs, ability, style, for the Standard. As an advanced rider, on a typically shaped all-mountain board, I would say more like 155, 156, but for this particular board I do think it’s a good idea to size down a little. Not something that I would recommend sizing down a lot, like some boards that are wider and more designed to be short/wides, but it is one that I think is a good idea to size down a little bit.
The 153 Standard should have a little extra surface area than the 154 PT2. That plus a longer nose and a directional volume twin shape should help it to float noticeably better than your 154 PT2, IMO, which isn’t great in powder (IMO). In terms of stability at speed, I rode the 156 (the 2018 and more recently 2019 version) and I found it nice and stable at speed (6’0″, 185lbs, size 10) – not a full on bomber but pretty good. But then I also found the PT2 (157) pretty good at speed too (though the Standard just a little better).
You would obviously get a little more out of the 156 in terms of float in powder and stability at speed if those things were like the only things you wanted, but you would sacrifice a little in terms of agility (particularly nice to have in trees) and in terms of more freestyle things like side hits and spins etc.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate!
Not a problem at all! Hope you had a great vacation! I actually had to pull the trigger a day before you responded because there were other people interested in the board…and I’m glad I did!! Thank you so much for your input! It really gives me the additional confidence that I made the right choice!
Keep up the great work on this site! I’m sure everyone really appreciates what you do, just s I do! Thanks again!
Hi Ricky
You’re very welcome. If you think of it, let me know how you get on once you’ve had a chance to ride it.
Hello Nate,
Seeing all these comments, I’d like to get some advice on a dilemma I have been having.
I currently ride a Arbor Coda Camber 156cm with a US 9 boot.
The area that I ride in tends to drop a ton of pow, which my current board is struggling with.
I ride hard, carve and slash, pop off natural lips, tree runs. Looking to do more freestyle moves in back country.
I’m torn between the Capita BSOD and the Yes Standard as the Standard can ride switch better but the Capita BSOD seems to float better and carve better? (Not looking at the Yes PYL as it is out of stock here)
Any advice on comparing the two 2018 editions for what I like to do?
Hi Able
Thanks for your message. I would say the following about the differences between these 2.
1. The BSOD is a little better in powder, IMO. But if you were to put the Standard into the slam back inserts I’d say it gets close – but probably still not quite as good as the BSOD in powder – but decent enough. And both would be better in pow than the Coda Camber, IMO.
2. THe BSOD is a little stiffer, in my experience. Even though YES rate the Standard as 7/10 for flex, it felt more like a 6/10 to me – and Capita rate the BSOD as a 6.5/10 but it felt more like a 7/10 to me, even 7.5 – so despite their ratings, I would say that the BSOD is the stiffer board.
3. Overall I preferred the Standard for jumps, butters, presses, spins – most of the freestyle stuff
4. Overall I would say that the Standard is more freestyle focused than the BSOD, which is more freeride focused – even though it’s changed recently from being an out and out freeride board to being more of a do-it-all board, it’s still at the freeride end of the do-it-all specturm, whereas the Standard is more at the Freestyle end of “do-it-all” if that makes sense.
5. In terms of speed and carving, there’s not really a lot in it. They both performed well there, for me. If I had to choose, I’d say the BSOD just a touch ahead in those areas.
6. Not for 2018 but for the 2019 models, I weighed both of these boards and the 156 Standard weighed 2880 grams (18.46 grams/cm) and the 159 BSOD weighed 2700grams (16.98 grams/cm). Not sure if that has any baring on your decision but that’s some extra info in case you were wondering on that. The Standard isn’t heavy by any means though – it’s about average in terms of weight (based on the boards that I weighed) – it’s just that the BSOD (and Capita boards in general) is super light.
7. Also to note, the 156 Standard is 270mm at the inserts (a wide board for it’s waist width – 258mm at the waist) and the 159 BSOD is 268mm at the inserts (256mm at the waist). Also wide for its waist. This was for the 2019 models, but I think the 2018 models are the same in that sense. Converting to other sizes, the width at the inserts would be roughly 12mm larger than the waist width. But I’ve found that they both didn’t feel like wide boards (even though a lot of boards that are considered wide wouldn’t be much wider at the inserts than this, they felt more agile – that waist width being a little narrower definitely makes a difference there I think). But this is going from a US10, so could be slightly different.
For getting more freestyle in the backcountry, the Standard is what I would choose – but for the backcountry generally speaking, I’d more likely go for the BSOD.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
I’ve got a 2018 153cm Standard, which I find is good for riding pow and the jump line in the park, but don’t like how it jibs (feels too stiff) and the stance options are too narrow for my preferred 22.5 stance (I’m on the back slam back inserts and front inserts). I’m Looking for an all mountain freestyle boards that that excels in the jump line in the park that can also tackle the jib line. I’m thinking a 2019 Greats. Is there a noticeable difference between the 2019 Greats and 2018 Standard? Is there other boards I should be Looking at such as a Box Knife, Head Space, Outer Space? I’m 170 pounds, 5,8 and an advanced rider.
Cheers, Mark
Hi Nate,
I’ve got a 153cm 2018 Standard which is great for pow and riding the jump line in the park, but not great jibbing (feels too stiff). I’m looking for an all mountain freestyle board that’s still rips all mountain and the jump line, but can handle jibs Better than the Standard. I’m considering a 2019 Greats, is there a substantial difference between the standard & Greats? Is there other 2019 model boards I should be considering like the Lib Tech box Knife/terrain wrecker, GNU head space, Capita outer space living, Never Summer Peace Maker (heard NS boards lose life after 30 days?) I’m 170 pounds, 5’8 with 8.5US boots and an advance rider.
Cheers, Mark
Hi Mark
Thanks for your message.
I would say that the main differences between the 2018 Standard and the 2019 Greats are:
1. The Greats is a little softer flexing – not by heaps but a little. By my feel, the Standard feels like a 6/10 and the Greats a 5/10. Though YES rates both boards at a 7/10 flex.
2. The Greats 2019 has a 2-4-2 camrock profile – which means 4mm of camber (between the feet and under the inserts) and 2mm of rocker on the tail and 2mm of rocker on the nose. The Standard 2018 (and the Standard 2019) has a 3-4-3 – so a little more rocker tip and tail.
3. The Greats 2019 is likely a little lighter than the 2018 Standard. The Greats, Standard & Ghost all got new lighter cores for 2019. I weighed the 2019 models when I demoed them but I didn’t weight the 2018 models so I couldn’t say how much lighter they are objectively speaking – but they did feel lighter to me.
4. The Greats has an asymmetrical sidecut – not that that’s going to affect jibbing really
5. They have different sidecuts – but again, not really something that’s going to affect jibs.
6. The Greats is a true twin (or at least asymmetrical twin) whereas the Standard is a Directional Volume Twin (almost true twin but not quite).
The 2019 Greats is more similar to the 2018 Standard than the 2018 Greats was, because it now has mid-bite like the Standard, but there are quite a few difference.
I found the 2019 Greats a little nicer to jib than the 2019 Standard (and the 2018 Standard) and I think the main thing is just that it’s that little bit softer flexing. But there’s not a big difference between the 2 jib wise. I found both pretty good though, but not great. Though it’s quite hard to find an all-mountain-freestyle board or anything that has a 5+ flex that’s easy on jibs, to be fair. And typically you’re looking at around that 5/10 mark for all-mountain-freestyle as you want some stiffness for the all-mountain stuff, especially if you like to carve/bomb.
I would rate the Standard 3/10 for jibs and the Greats 3.5/10 for jibs, if that helps.
The box knife I also found fine for jibs. Better than I thought given that it’s mostly camber – it’s a bit softer flexing (4/10 by my feel) which certainly helps, but still 3.5/5 I’d say, but I like some flat areas or rockered zones for jibbing personally – but certainly an option if you’re looking for something softer flexing that can still handle the mountain. You can read more of what I thought of the Box Knife at the link below:
>>Lib Tech Box Knife Review
If you were going to keep the standard and get a specialized board for the jibs, then there are obviously a lot of good options for that (Lib Tech Box Scratcher, Capita Ultrafear, Burton Name Dropper, K2 WWW), but you will have to compromise a little on jib performance if you want everything in one board.
Unfortunately I didn’t get on a terrain wrecker to demo (tried to) but I would say it’s not going to be better than the Greats/Box Knife there.
You could check out these more freestyle/park oriented boards and see if you think something like that would be good enough over the rest of the mountain:
https://snowboardingprofiles.com/the-best-freestyle-snowboards-my-top-10
And here’s my all-mountain-freestyle list (note that this is a 2018 model list – I preferred the 2019 Greats on jibs – not sure why, but maybe that wider, more stable platform with the change in width):
https://snowboardingprofiles.com/the-best-all-mountain-freestyle-snowboards-for-men-my-top-5
But yeah, in terms of what I would consider all-mountain-freestyle I can’t think of anything that’s better than the Greats for jibs, that’s still good all over the mountain, maybe the Box Knife is just a touch better, but then it’s not as good on the rest, IMO.
In terms of size, I think 153 is the best size for you for the Standard (154 for the Greats – or even 151 if you wanted it to be easier on jibs, but would then sacrifice a little elsewhere (e.g. stability at speed)).
I don’t earn any Never Summer boards, so I don’t know how they go in terms of durability or liveliness over time, but riding them late in the demo season (where they’ve probably been ridden around 30 days) I’ve never had issues with them – but yeah I couldn’t say for sure about that. Unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to get on the Peacemaker, but it certainly looks like it would be pretty good on jibs – I’d say similar to the Funlsinger (which I rate 4/10 on jibs). It’s just whether it could hack it with the rest of the Mountain. It looks like it’s basically a non-asym Funslinger, with a different sidecut. But it does have “BLower Stance” inserts (similar to the Standards “Slam Back”).
Anyway, hope that gives you more info to go off
Thanks Nate, I think I might need to demo some boards before purchasing.
Cheers, Mark
You’re very welcome. Definitely always helps if you have the opportunity to demo something for yourself.
hey quick question. intermediate freeride on northeast with trips out west 2 times a year. i like going through trees if available otherwise just enjoying the mountain. my stats: 188 lbs, size 12 boot, 6’2. local store has a Yes Standard in 159 and a Capita Mercury in 159 as well. I cant decide between the two and because of my foot size and weight, i was wondering if those are decent options. their 40% off so kinda helps the wallet. just wondering about the difference between the two boards and which would be the best option. Thanks in advance!
Hey Iggz
Thanks for your message and apologies for the slow response (currently preparing for the imminent arrival of the birth of my son!)
I think both would do the job. I would maybe be leaning towards the Standard for you, just because it’s really good in hard/icy snow, in my experience, and if you’re going to be getting a fair bit of that out East, you might appreciate that. In terms of width as well, I think the Mercury is probably too narrow for you, whereas the 159 Standard should be fine for 12s.
For your specs, I’d ordinarily say a little longer than 159, but with the Standard, I think 159 is actually a good size for you.
And here’s a few things I would say are the main differences between the Standard and Mercury:
1. The Standard is wider – not only is it 263mm at the waist vs 259mm at the waist of the 159 Mercury, it’s also 310mm tip and tail vs 303mm on the Mercury. That plus the mid-bite (which makes the waist cinched in) means that the width at the inserts will be a good bit wider on the Standard vs the Mercury
2. The Mercury is a directional twin (has a longer nose than tail) whereas the Standard is a “directional volume twin” which is pretty close to being true twin, but has just a little bit more volume in the nose compared to the tail – but the length and width of the nose is the same as the length and width of the tail.
3. The Mercury is a little stiffer from my experience, but not by heaps. I would say Standard 6/10, Mercury 6.5/10.
They both have a hybrid camber profile (camber between and under the feet with rocker towards tip and tail).
Overall, I would say that the Standard is a little more freestyle oriented and the Mercury a little more freeride oriented, but both are what I would call “all-mountain” and can do a bit of everything. A few differences but performance-wise quite similar, IMO.
In terms of powder, I’d say the Standard in the slam back inserts is a little better but centered not quite as good as the Mercury. So when you go out West, if you get a powder day, you can always set the Standard back for better performance in powder.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Hi Nate
Need a new board & have narrowed it down to Yes Standard, Rossignol One Lf & Ride Twinpig/Warpig
Intermediate rider, mainly ice/hard pack, occasional powder, just cruising all over doing a bit of everything, 5’11” 175 lbs size us12, what would you recommend
Like my stance quite wide, was thinking the standard in 156 but worried that it only goes to 23.1 ”
Also the Rossi sounds great, just wandering why you chose that board over the standard that tops your list
By the way best advice & info out there by a mile
Cheers Phil
Hi Phil
Thanks for your message.
Because you’re in icy conditions regularly, I think you’ll appreciate either the Standard or the One LF over the Warpig/Twinpig. I haven’t ridden the latter in hard/icy conditions but based on what others say they wouldn’t be as good in hard/icy conditions.
Size-wise, I think the 156 would be a good length for you for the Standard. Width-wise you should be OK with 12s, but if you have boots with a longer outersole or if you ride with quite a straight back binding it might be pushing it being too narrow. But if you ride with something similar to +15/-15 and/or have low profile boots, should be fine.
For the One LF, the 157W would be your best bet, IMO and should be fine for any binding angle, width-wise.
The One LF goes out to 24.8″ on the 157W, so if you wanted to go wider than the 23.1″ on the 156 Standard, then it’s probably a better option. YES have gone with narrow stances for a lot of their boards, recently.
The reason I bought the One LF, is basically for demo reasons. It’s a very consistent board and a very “normal” board. So it basically makes for something that is easy to test against. I use it as my standard and test and compare every other board I ride against. Also, it’s something that hasn’t changed much over the years (2019 model is basically still the same as the 2016 model), so it has that consistency about it too. I would love to have the Standard in my quiver (and likely will one day!).
So yeah, the width and stance options of the Rossi give you more options in terms of binding angles and stance widths, so that’s probably the safest option. The 156 Standard would work for you with certain restrictions.
Hope this helps with your decision
Awesome cheers for that Nate
So leaning towards the standard, have just sold my Burton Custom bindings & Burton Moto boots
What bindings & boots would you recommend for this board
Cheers Phil
Hi Phil
For the Standard I would go with something with around a 6 or 7 flex out of 10, ideally for both boots and bindings. Check out the following for some options.
Boots
>>My Top All Mountain (medium-stiff flex) Snowboard Boots
Bindings
>>Top 5 All Mountain Bindings
>>Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
Hope this helps but let me know if you want more options in that flex range
Hi Nate! I’m looking at getting a new board. Am looking for an all Mountain board that’s can handle a bit of everything. I have a dedicated powder board already. Am a bigger guy 220lb plus big feet 13us feet. I lot of the dedicated wide boards are way stiff, not much play in them and are good for charging but not fun and playful. Also most snowboard company’s wide snowboards wide board waist is 26.2 and that is just enough but to be honest is still a bit narrow when you do deep carves and when it’s very speep. A waist of 26.8 is probably about right more or less.
The question what other options are there for an all Mountain board that has a waist of around 26.8 is there that’s NOT a plank? (Not sure if there is much else) the 162 Yes standard could be the one for me!?
O definitely prefer camber
Thanks
Hi Ed
Thanks for your message.
They do certainly tend to make “big guy” boards more burly, typically. But there are some options. The Standard being a great option, IMO. And the width at the inserts on the Standard are probably around 280mm, 281mm (based on what they are on the 156 (258mm waist, 270mm insert width). That should be a good width for you, I would say, especially if you don’t ride with too straight a back binding.
The Nitro Team Gullwing comes in a 162W with a 270mm waist, which should be plenty. And the inserts are likely to be around 280mm at the back insert and 278mm at the front insert – based on the 159 having a 252 waist and being 260 at the inserts. Though not entirely sure about the ratios on the wider boards for Nitro.
The Rossignol One 161W (which my brother owns) has a 266mm waist width and is 281mm at the back insert and 278mm at the front insert. My bros never had any drag issues on it – though he’s in 12s rather than 13s – and low profile boots. But I think that would also be a good width.
The Mountain Twin is another board that tends to be quite wide at the inserts compared to the waist. The 157 has a 253mm waist and is 266mm at the inserts. The 164W is 262 at the waist, but is likely around 275mm at the back insert. Jones boards do tend to have a wide reference stance though – you may or may not like that.
Also note that there are some Lib Tech and GNU boards around that length with waist widths around 267, 268. But be a little careful with those as from the ones that I’ve measured, the difference between waist and inserts on GNU and Lib Tech tends to only be around 5-6mm. So for example, the GNU Rider’s Choice 157.5cm has a 255mm waist and is 260mm at the inserts. So, the 162W for that board is likely around 273mm at the inserts, even though it’s 268mm at the waist.
That’s a few options for boards that are all-mountain and not too stiff/aggressive, looking in and around that 162 length. Not sure what you’re length range is, but there would certainly be more options in longer lengths. And more options in those lengths too. I can dig a little deeper, if you don’t see anything that appeals there. Those are some off the top of my head that I knew were quite wide.
Hope this helps
Thanks Nate, good response. Interesting what you mentioned about lib tech. Is it because of a different sidecut or just that they are just Abit wider in general. Rossignol One would be a good option just it’s such an ugly looking board. The Jones mountain twin has a relatively narrow waist 26.2 it’s interesting that you mentioned at the insert packs it’s wider. How is that? Thanks again for your input 👍
Hi Ed
A number of things can influence the difference in width at the inserts compared to at the waist. In some cases the sidecut is a tighter radius from width to inserts than it is from inserts to contact points. In some cases there is a magnetraction bump or something right at the waist of the board, which makes the waist width sound wider than it really it is. This is the case with a lot of Niche boards. Also different stance widths can effect this. If the reference stance (or just where you choose to have your stance) is wider, then your bindings will be closer to the contact points – i.e. on a wider part of the board. For Jones a lot of the extra width at the inserts comes from the fact that there’s a wider reference stance. For the Standard (and other YES boards with mid-bite) it’s the mid bite that they have (which cinches the board in at the waist).
Yeah the 2019 Rossignol One is ugly – not sure why they went for that graphic.
O had a look a Jones web they have a page recommeding big feet they said the waist needs to be over 26.3 if us11.5. the Jones explorer is a possibility then.
Hey Ed
Yeah, I didn’t think of the Explorer but that’s definitely an option too. Not one that I’ve had a chance to measure at the inserts – but if it’s like the other Jones boards I’ve measured then it should be a good width at the inserts with a 264mm waist. And it’s the kind of board that you can get a little playful on too – but also quite aggressive when you want to be.
>>Jones Explorer Review
Thanks again Nate, would the Malavitas & Vans Aura work with this board? just that i can get them cheap at the mo, no worries if not & any thoughts on the Mahar Lumberjack
Cheers Phil
Hi Phil
That’s the exact bindings and boots I rode the 2019 model in! So yeah those definitely work with the board. I think in an ideal world, boots that have a little more stiffness than the Auras – which I would say are around a 4.5/10 flex – just a little softer than medium. Ideally something closer to a 6/10. But that’s getting pretty fussy – the Auras worked well for me with the Standard.
I have zero knowledge/experience with Mahar boards, unfortunately.
Thanks Nate I like your thinking! It’s a very good point about magnetraction possiblity for giving the impression of a wider waist than it could be! Also for a bigger footed guy it’s quite hard to figure out what board it right! Many are just too stiff! I don’t mind a stiff board but in general you don’t need to ride a plank! Cheers dude 👍👊
You’re very welcome Ed. Hopefully you can find something that works well for you
Hi Nate
Sorry to bother you again. Did you notice any difference between last year’s 2-4-2 vs this year’s 3-4-3 ? More rocker this year. I guess to make it more different than the ghost snowboard, and maybe make it slightly better in pow. What’s your thoughts on this? Personally I would prefer 2-4-2. thanks again
Hi Ed
Thanks for your message.
As far as I’m aware the 2018 model had the 3-4-3 Camrock profile – it was the 2017 model that had the 2-4-2 (and was a very different board in a couple of other ways too). That’s what my catalog says anyway, I didn’t measure the camber on it. My catalog could have been wrong though if you have info that contradicts that. Either way, I didn’t specifically feel a difference in terms of camber profile. To me the 2019 felt very similar to the 2018 model – but felt a little snappier/livelier, which I put down to the board being lighter for the 2019 model.
The Ghost is all camber (4-5mm), so regardless it’s quite difference – but I get your point that 3-4-3 is more different to full camber than 2-4-2.