The Best Mellow Freeride Snowboards 2024-2025

Comments

1. Ron Z says

   January 8, 2025 at 2:28 pm

   Hi Nate, Thank you so much for all the reviews. so helpful !

   I’m 5’11 (maybe 5’11.5″ :), 162P, 10.5 boot size.

   I would say that i am an advanced intermediate. I turned 50 and am now mainly interested in mellow blacks (nothing crazy) and medium level powder. I am located in the east coast (ice) and spend maybe 5-10 days per year snowboarding also in the Alps or the Rockies.

   My current ride is a 157 Capita Mega Merc with Burton Step-ons. I love the mega merc ! light, responsive , great for all mountain.

   I do want to consider adding another board to my quiver so that i have a more powder friendly board. considering the Burton Gril Master. but i’m a bit concerned about the available length. i seem to be way outside the weight recommendation for a 160 and 155 seems a bit short… What are your thoughts and is there another ‘chill’ freeride all mountain you would recommend over the Gril Master.

   Thanks !

   Reply

   • Nate says

     January 14, 2025 at 10:43 am

     Hi Ron, thanks for your message.

     The Gril Master would certainly work and I think it would be a good compliment to your Mega Merc, but I definitely get where you’re coming from with sizing. Always annoys me when boards have a 5cm gap between sizes! In this case, I agree that the 155 feels like it would be too short, particularly as your predominantly powder board. If you were just riding powder on it, you could ride the 160, but not likely to like it that much on groomers. Definitely a few other good options in this list though. Most would work, with some being better for icy conditions than others, but if you could let me know a few things to help narrow it down.

     – Are you open to volume shifter (short/wide) or want to keep a more traditional length/width?

     – Are you open to hybrid rocker (where you have rocker between the feet and camber towards tip and tail) or prefer to stick to hybrid camber (camber between the feet and rocker towards tip/tail)?

     Reply

     • Ron Z says

       January 15, 2025 at 7:44 pm

       Thank for replying Nate !

       Would definitely need a board where I can go on the groomers as well.

       – I don’t mind volume shifting (though I’ve never retried)
       – I prefer a hybrid camber vs hybrid rocker. I feel off when riding rocker in between my feet

       – I haven’t ridden Burton in a while and I’m kinda curious to use their channel system and EST binding (perhaps there is a better suited Burton board ?) but this haunt a must at all. Prefer to add the best board for what I’m looking for

       Thanks again ! I love what you do on this forum

       Reply

       • Nate says

         January 21, 2025 at 10:37 am

         Hi Ron

         If you were to go volume shifted, the Jones Mind Expander would be a good bet, for something chill, good in powder and still fun on groomers. The Storm Chaser from Jones as well – but it’s not quite as chill. It’s certainly not super stiff or aggressive, but it’s got a bit more of a solid feel to it. The Short Stop is probably not going to cut it on groomers for you. It’s still fun on groomers, but only at slow speeds. The Dancehaul could work as well, though I’d be leaning Mind Expander if you were to go volume shifted.

         From Burton you could go Hometown Hero, though it’s a heavier board. My pick would be the Deep Thinker. It’s not quite as mellow as the Gril Master and not quite as good for powder, but it’s also certainly not overly aggressive a ride, in my experience, and it’s nice and light and still decent in powder. The 157 would be a really good size for you, as well, IMO. But I get that you probably want to go a little more powder oriented, to give a bigger contrast to your Mega Merc, so I think I’d still be leaning Mind Expander over it. I think the Gril Master would be the best Burton pick, if it came in a better size.

         For a non-volume shifted option, I’d look at the Capita Navigator.

         Reply

2. Dano says

   January 5, 2025 at 3:41 pm

   Happy New Year Nate!
   I am considering two boards as daily drivers, groomers, some powder, some trees, a little carve – The Never Summer Nohku and a Jones Fromtier. I generally do not do park. I recently sold a Burton Daily Driver (mixed on whether I liked it) and Name Dropper, and picked up a Process Chamber 157 so I have something to ride.

   I consider myself solid intermediate who wants to improve. I’m 5’9”, 165lbs, 10.0 boot. I do not like rocker profiles because of their squirrellyness. Size wise with the Jones I would go 159 and with the Nokhu I’m leaning towards the 158 but really not certain.

   I was sold on the Frontier but the Nokhu looks very interesting and still accommodates an intermediate whole offering a little more.

   I realize your full Nokhu review is in process, but what do you think between the two boards? And Sizing? I’m ready to buy.

   Thank you!

   Reply

   • Nate says

     January 10, 2025 at 11:01 am

     Hey Dano, thanks for your message and happy new year!

     I would say the Frontier is the safest bet for you and there’s not much chance you’ll dislike it. It’s one of those boards that just feels natural to ride. But the Nokhu is the more exciting option, IMO. It has more of an x-factor. More potential to really love it, but also more potential for it to be not for you. The biggest hesitation I would have is your comment about rocker boards. While I didn’t find the Nokhu too squirelly, it is on the border of feeling semi-loose and does have a noticeable rocker element. It’s certainly not what I’d call rocker dominant. There’s more camber than rocker, but you do feel the rocker. So you’d be more at risk of getting a feel you didn’t like with it.

     Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain” length at around 157/158. The Frontier is something you can ride a bit longer, so I think the 159 should work fine. You could go 156 as well, but given that you’re not really riding park and only some trees, the 159 is probably your best bet. Same argument between the 158 and 155 for the Nokhu. Though being wider, I would be more inclined to the 155 for the Nokhu – but if you’re worried about a squirelly feeling, then going shorter won’t help with that, so that’s something to consider.

     Hope this helps with your decision

     Reply

3. casey says

   November 29, 2024 at 11:18 am

   Hey Nate thanks for your reviews and advice! You helped me out getting a gnu headspace a couple years ago, and I love it, but now looking at a second board for doing everything except park riding. Mainly to bring as my only board for trips or the rare powder day (I live in Philly, taking first trip to CO this february), but something still fun to cruise around and carve on an icy day too, more on the surfy/playful side than aggressive. I do a lot of riding with my wife who’s more of a beginner/intermediate, so don’t want something that wants to charge hard all the time.

   Mainly between the nokhu and the orca…nokhu sounds more like what I want, but there’s not nearly as much info about it compared to the orca hype, and I could get last years orca for like $430 vs $690 for a new nokhu. What do you think?

   I’m 5’8 145lbs, size 8 boot, would want to use my size m Salomon hologram bindings on whatever board I get. Was thinking 147 for the orca or 152 for the nokhu. My headspace is a 152

   Reply

   • Nate says

     December 2, 2024 at 7:53 pm

     Hi Casey, thanks for your message.

     I would slightly prefer the Nokhu but given that price difference, the Orca would be the way I’d go, especially if budget isn’t limitless.

     Size-wise, I think the 147 Orca is probably better suited to. Not that 152 in the Nokhu would be too big or anything, but it is bordering on the bigger end for you, IMO, given its width. I’d almost say 150 Orca though – it’s a tough one with the Orca, but the 147 would be a good size. If you were going to be riding predominantly in powder and wanting to ride it fast more of the time, then the Nokhu in the 152 would be a good bet, but given how you are likely to use it, it’s a little on the big side, IMO.

     tldr; both great options for what you’re describing, but I like the Orca 147 a little more size-wise for you and that’s a pretty big price difference, so I’d be leaning Orca.

     Hope this helps with your decision

     Reply

4. Jeremy says

   October 6, 2024 at 12:37 am

   Hi there, I am 175cm / 70kg / Boot size US 9.5 advanced rider.

   I only ride in Hokkaido so mostly off-piste or backcountry powder with mellow terrain and quite a bit of trees.

   My current boards are Mercury 157cm and Mega Death 156cm.

   I was hoping the Mega Death would be a very good powder board. It ended up being an excellent carver and fun on groomers (and not that aggressive actually!) but rather twitchy in the powder. Maybe I should have sized up to 159cm if I wanted something more powder focused?

   For a mostly powder-focused board, which of these would you recommend: Capita Navigator, Yes PYL (Normal), Yes PYL (Uninc), Rome Ravine, Rome Ravine Select?

   Should I size up or stick to the recommended size range?

   Thank you very much!

   Reply

   • Nate says

     October 8, 2024 at 4:12 pm

     Hi Jeremy, thanks for your message.

     Firstly, if you’re going to be using it predominantly for powder, then I would size up from your normal size. Particularly with a powder focused board, as there’ll be more surface area outside the contact points than with an all-mountain or freestyle board. And that surface area will be mostly only noticeable in powder and not on hard pack (not strictly, because of weight, swing weight and feel etc – but you don’t notice that length as much on hard pack, because it’s not in contact with the snow).

     All of those boards well suited to powder, IMO, but in order of best to worst, I would say:

     PYL Uninc
     Navigator
     Ravine/Ravine Select
     PYL

     I rode the Mega Death over the winter, but didn’t get it into significant powder (was some, but only a few inches), but it should be decent in powder, so I imagine the 159 would have been better for you for predominantly powder use. That said, I would rate the above boards as being better in powder than it. The PYL only by a little bit, but in the 159, even the PYL should be a noticeable difference in powder.

     I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 157/158, so I would go up from there in most of those boards. The exception being the PYL Uninc, which is a wider board, so you’ll get that extra surface area for powder from the width. The sizes I would go with are (for PYL and PYL, Uninc, Ravine and Ravine Select first size is if you still want it to OK on groomers and is the size I’d mostly recommend, particularly as you’re in the trees a lot, but if you wanted to maximize the powder float, the second size is an option and will still be manageable on groomers and in trees, but just not necessarily optimal):

     PYL Uninc 157 (159)
     Navigator 161
     Ravine/Ravine Select 158 (162)
     PYL 159 (162)

     Hope this helps with your decision

     Reply

5. Matt says

   February 20, 2024 at 4:02 pm

   I would love to see you review the Nitro Dinghy and K2 Excavator at some point. These boards are getting a lot of hype so your take would be nice. Thanks

   Reply

   • Nate says

     February 21, 2024 at 7:17 pm

     Hey Matt

     Would be great to test those and will be doing my best to get on them this winter!

     Reply

     • Matt says

       February 22, 2024 at 8:39 am

       Very cool. Thank you. Also, one of the items I noticed when looking for my next board and doing comparisons, is only a few give surface area (dm2). Yes and Jones are thankfully doing it, but most don’t. Besides waist width, this seems it should be the most important dimension to consider as length is becoming so varied with volume shifted boards. Let’s start the push to ask for board manufacturers to include this. Thoughts?

       Reply

       • Nate says

         February 22, 2024 at 4:45 pm

         Hey Matt.

         100%! I couldn’t agree more.

         YES/Jones have become really good with their specs, showing width at inserts, surface area, showing both effective edge and contact length and showing both nose/tail length as well as width. They are the standard for specs that I wish every other brand would follow. Can throw Nidecker in there too. Can get frustrating when a lot of these specs are missing. But I agree that surface area would be priceless to be able to compare – and it’s too complicated for me to figure out (I’d need some kind of software and an exact outline of the board, I would imagine) when I have the boards with me.

         Reply

         • Matt says

           February 23, 2024 at 7:49 am

           Thanks for confirming I am not crazy or too obsessive. Ha!

         • Nate says

           February 23, 2024 at 3:29 pm

           Ha ha! It either confirms you’re not crazy/obsessive or that we both are! 😛

6. Sherman says

   January 9, 2024 at 5:54 am

   Hey Nate, thanks so much for your reviews, they are more helpful than any others!
   I would love to get your opinion if you have time:
   I am a intermediate rider and have been going to Japan for multiple seasons. I have been using the Burton Instigator as my first board and I feel like I have outgrown the board and want to get my first powder board to tackle the deep snow in Niseko. So I want to get a board that’s really good in the powder, and in the trees, but will also work well on groomers and will carve okay. So, pretty well a one-board quiver that’s great in powder.
   I am sure most of the boards in your list would work well but I would like your opinion on how I should size the board. My instigators are 160cm and I understand that for powder boards we should size them down 3-5cm?
   I am 174 cm (5’7’’) 102kg (225 lbs) boots US 9.5.
   Thanks in advance!!

   Reply

   • Nate says

     January 10, 2024 at 4:33 pm

     Hi Sherman

     Thanks for your message.

     Typically, unless you’re going with a short-wide board, you would size up for a more powder oriented board. A couple of reasons for this.

     1. A bigger board has more surface area, so floats better in powder.

     2. Powder oriented boards tend to have more length outside of the contact points, so you can afford to go longer and still not feel too big on the groomers because there is a smaller effective edge to overall length ratio. However, if you’re also riding a lot of trees, then you don’t want to go too long, so anything from your “all-mountain” size or a little over is a good range to look at.

     All that said, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 160, so something around that would work well, unless you’re going for a short-wide, option, in which case you would size down a bit.

     If you wanted to go short-wide, then the following would be good bets:

     – Arbor Single 156 – in this case (and all the short/wide options here) it makes sense to size down in length, because of the width of the board

     – Salomon Dancehaul 157

     – Bataleon Cruiser 156

     – YES Hybrid 157

     – GNU Gremlin 155

     For non short-wide options:

     – GNU Hyper 160

     – Jones Mind Expander 158 (it’s semi short-wide, so I’d size a little down, but not much)

     – Capita Navigator 161

     – Burton Deep Thinker 160

     Hope this helps with your decision

     Reply

     • Sherman says

       January 10, 2024 at 10:39 pm

       Thanks Nate for your input!

       Much appreciated 👍

       Reply

       • Nate says

         January 13, 2024 at 2:16 am

         You’re very welcome Sherman. Hope you have a great season!

         Reply

7. Paul says

   December 27, 2023 at 8:26 am

   Hey Nate,
   I’m really interested in the Skeleton Key and I have the opportunity to buy the 2022 version for way less money than the 2024 version. Is there any difference between the two other than the graphic ?

   Reply

   • Nate says

     December 29, 2023 at 2:59 pm

     Hey Paul

     Thanks for your message. As far as I can tell, the 2022 model is identical to the 2024 model, apart from the graphic. So, assuming you don’t have to compromise on size – i.e. the 202 model that you can get is in the best size for you – then I would go for the 2022 model for sure.

     Reply

8. Andrew Marks says

   December 18, 2023 at 12:46 pm

   Hey Nate, thanks so much for your reviews, they are more helpful than any others that I’ve seen.

   I would love to get your opintion if you have time:

   I am a strong intermediate, going to Japan for two weeks in February – for the first time, and I don’t have much experience in powder. So I want to get a board that’s really good in the powder, and in the trees, but will also work well on groomers and will carve okay. Not super-stiff. Oh, and something that is agile, turns easily and holds its edges well even on icy stuff. So, pretty well a one-board quiver that’s great in powder.

   I thought I was being too demanding, but based on your reviews and others, I’ve identified a few boards that seem to tick all my boxes. They are:

   YES PYL
   YES Hybrid
   Never Summer Swift
   Gnu Banked Country

   What do you think? And by the way, are you planning a full review of the Swift soon? I really like the sound of it but would more detailed info…

   Thanks again!

   Reply

   • Nate says

     December 19, 2023 at 2:17 pm

     Hi Andrew

     Thanks for your message.

     Yes, full review of Swift is coming. Have a big back log of reviews to publish, but it is in the pipeline. I have had a couple of requests for it, so I will shift it up the queue I think and try to get it out this week.

     I think you’ve got a really good list there and I don’t you can go wrong with anything there for what you’re describing, assuming you get them in the right size. That could also be a tie breaker, if there’s something that will suit you better size-wise. I would be happy to give my sizing opinion input as well. Would just need your height, weight and boot size.

     Hope this helps

     Reply

     • Andrew Marks says

       December 20, 2023 at 1:52 am

       Hi Nate

       Thanks for your reply. Sorry I forgot to give this info: I’m 5’10”, 170 pounds, size 10 boot. Does that make a difference to your advice?

       BTW, two things that initially put me off the PYL was the flex rating of 8, which is too stiff for me – but you’re clear that it’s actually not more than 7 (maybe even softer than that?). Also, another website gave it only 3.5/5 for performance in powder, which surprised me given your 4.5/5, and my (maybe mistaken) perception that this is primarily a powder board.

       BTW my current board is a 2017/18 Jones Mountain Twin.

       Looking forward to the Swift review!

       Best
       Andrew

       Reply

       • Nate says

         December 20, 2023 at 4:02 pm

         Hi Andrew

         Size-wise, I would put your “standard all-mountain length” at around 158. With Freeride boards, depending on the width in relation to your boot size, you can size up a little. So I would go:

         YES PYL 159
         YES Hybrid 153 (this is really wide, so I would size down to this one)
         Never Summer Swift 158
         Gnu Banked Country 159

         I wouldn’t say the PYL was a specialized powder board as such, but I find it really good in powder. What I typically determine as “freeride” is a board that is good in powder, but also good for riding groomers. It just doesn’t have to be good for riding switch or anything freestyle. Some might call it a freeride board more on the all-mountain end of the spectrum because it doesn’t have a massive amount of taper or setback. But with 6mm of taper, a nose that’s considerably longer in the nose than the tail and the rocker in the nose, but not really in the tail (subtly but hardly noticeable), it’s more freeride for me. And I found it floated really well in powder. Noticably more float than the Mountain Twin, IMO.

         The PYL is also now rated 7/10. The 2022 model was stiffer – more like 8/10, but then they changed it up and made it softer again (like it was for the 2019 and previous models). So yeah, I wouldn’t worry about it being too stiff. Certainly a 7/10 flex for me. But still a little stiffer than the other 3 on your list.

         Reply

         • Andrew Marks says

           December 24, 2023 at 1:30 am

           Hey Nate, thanks so much for the Swift review, it’s really informative. The board sounds great, but there are two things I can see that might be off-putting.

           First, you say it doesn’t have good edge-hold on icy snow, unlike the other three boards on my list. Do you think that’s a big deal, or not so much?

           Second, you say it’s predominantly a quiver board – though you also say it could definitely make a one-board quiver for the right riding style.

           I am looking for as close to a one-board quiver as I can get in a board that ticks all my other boxes, because realistically, I’m unlikely to switch much between boards depending on conditions etc.

           So I need something that will work really well in the powder (especially the low-angle powder I expect in Japan), but that will also be absolutely fine on groomers and for carving, is agile in the trees, easy to turn, holds its edges…and be fun to ride! I don’t mind if I can’t ride switch, and I don’t go in the park.

           BTW I see the Swift is maybe 20% more expensive than the other three boards, and I wonder why that is. I’m completely happy to pay that higher price, as long as it’s worth it!

           Nate, do you have a feel for which of these four boards is going to be best for my requirements and ability, or would you say they’ll all be fine and I should go for my gut feeling?

           Thanks again, all the best
           Andrew

         • Nate says

           December 24, 2023 at 5:59 pm

           Hi Andrew

           I wouldn’t say the Swift would be bad for icy conditions, but not as good as the other 3, IMO.

           For powder, agility in trees and easy to turn, I would say the Swift is the pick of the 4. In low angle powder, so long as you don’t go too small, I think you’ll be fine. But of course, if you want to keep that easy to turn/tree performance, I wouldn’t go too big either. For your specs, I think the 158 (and the other sizes mentioned) would strike a good balance between being big enough for good float in low angle powder, but also agile enough.

           The PYL, IMO will be best for speed and edge-hold, but I’d say Banked Country a little bit easier to turn, but not by a whole lot. Banked Country up there with PYL on a carve and for edge hold though.

           The Hybrid I’d say as good for edge-hold vs the PYL and similar ease of turns as PYL. A little better on carves and at speed vs Swift and a little better in powder vs Banked Country.

           So, yeah it’s a tough call, I think they would all work, with different strengths and weaknesses. So gut feeling might be a good way to go. I think Banked Country is probably the most “in-between” of them.

         • Andrew Marks says

           December 27, 2023 at 5:34 am

           Thanks for all your help Nate, I really appreciate you taking the time. Wishing you a happy and healthy 2024.

         • Nate says

           December 29, 2023 at 2:48 pm

           You’re very welcome Andrew. Hope you also have a great 2024 and a great snowboarding season!

       • Andrew Marks says

         December 30, 2023 at 3:54 am

         Dear Nate, I hope you don’t mind but I have another (yet another!) question please. I’m inclining towards the Swift, your enthusiasm is infectious! But as I mentioned I’d like to use it not just for powder, but ideally as a decent one-board quiver too.

         You said: “It’s predominantly a quiver board, but could definitely make a one-board quiver for the right riding style”.

         And what I’m wondering is, what is the riding style that would make the Swift useable as a one-board quiver?

         Thanks as always, Andrew

         Reply

         • Nate says

           December 31, 2023 at 3:52 pm

           Hi Andrew

           I would say the style that would work well for using the Swift would be someone who, when not in powder:

           – likes to still explore tree runs, even without powder in there – not when it’s icy or really bad, but when there’s not fresh powder.
           – likes to ride with a bit of speed but doesn’t like to bomb really fast
           – likes to carve on groomers, but doesn’t need something that will hold onto super aggressive carves at really high speeds
           – doesn’t ride switch often
           – doesn’t spend a lot of time in the park
           – doesn’t want to be buttering around the place, or doing spin tricks or that kind of thing
           – could still be into side-hits, but just without expecting it to be great for 180s off side-hits – but 360s and straight airs it’s pretty decent for

         • Andrew Marks says

           January 1, 2024 at 8:40 am

           Nate, you’re a mind-reader! All those bullet points you list – that’s me exactly! So I’m going to go for the Swift, and really looking forward to it. Can’t thank you enough for taking the time to give all that thoughtful and helpful advice. Very best, Andrew

         • Nate says

           January 1, 2024 at 5:47 pm

           You’re very welcome Andrew. Hope it treats you well and hope you have a great season! If you think of it at the time, let me know how you get on, once you’ve had a chance to get it out on snow.

9. Chris says

   December 17, 2023 at 1:53 pm

   Hey Nate,

   I’ve been procrastinating getting a new snowboard but have needed to and well now I don’t really have a choice as my 2012 Rossignol One Magtek is out of commission. I’d like to get an all Salomon setup.

   I’m riding on groomers in the northeast, no glades, parks or crazy speeds for me… so just all mounting free-riding I guess?

   I’m 5’10, 200 pounds, 10.5 boot, and have been boarding for almost 20 years now.

   I was looking at the Sight but thats out of stock now… I was also looking at the Assassin/Pro but it seems more of a park board… I was also looking at the Dialogue Lace SJ BOA boots and the Hologram bindings… What board would you suggest, and would you suggest any different bindings?

   Thanks!

   Chris

   Reply

   • Nate says

     December 19, 2023 at 1:46 pm

     Hi Chris

     Thanks for your message.

     In terms of the board, I think the Dancehaul would work well for what you’re describing. It’s a volume shifted board, so you’d want to size down a little on it. I would put your typical all-mountain length at around 161, but with the Dancehaul I would go either 154 or 157. It gets pretty wide in those sizes, so, given you’re not bombing at high speeds or anything, I would be leaning 154. But you could certainly ride the 157 too, if you wanted a bit more stability and if you valued that over more maneuverability.

     Another option would be the Super 8, if you were OK with going with something a little stiffer. The Super 8 is also a little wider than the average board, but not to the same extent as the Dancehaul, so I would go at least 157 for that. And you could go up to 160, depending on your preference for stability/maneuverability.

     The Assassin is an option too (or Assassin Pro, if you were looking for something stiffer). It does have some freestyle qualities to it, but it’s what I would call “all-mountain-freestyle” and it’s something that works well on groomers and you don’t have to do anything freestyle with it. If you’re not really riding powder, then I think this option could work too. Size-wise, I would be looking at the 159.

     The Hologram would work with any of those boards, but would be best with the Assassin and Dancehaul, IMO. Will work with Super 8/Assassin Pro, but I would be more inclined to put the Highlander on those boards.

     The Dialogue Lace SJ BOA will also work for all of those options. Again, going a little stiffer is something you could do with Super 8/Assassin Pro – we haven’t tested them, but based on specs and experience with other Salomon boots, you could look at the Salomon Synergy PWL SJ Boa, if you wanted to go a little stiffer.

     Hope this helps with your decision

     Reply

10. Luis says

    December 17, 2023 at 9:37 am

    Hey Nate! It’s been a while. I’m surprised about the Swift as #1! I have always heard it’s just a stiffer Harpoon (same profile and all). If you remember I have a Harpoon so now I’m intrigued abuot the Swift and thinking about upgrading it haha. Are you doing a full review of it? Biggest differences vs Harpoon?

    Bindings wise – would the Now Pilot work with the Swift (the ones I use with my Harpoon) or too soft?

    Thanks man and have a great season!

    Reply

    • Nate says

      December 18, 2023 at 10:38 pm

      Hey Luis

      Good to hear from you again.

      I was surprised when I rode the Swift, particularly with how easy and fast it was edge-to-edge. I did not expect that. For the hundreds of boards I’ve tested over the years it’s not often that something profoundly surprises me, but this did.

      The 2024 version is a little changed, so I don’t know if the previous versions felt different. Will have a full review out for it soon. Working through a big backlog of reviews to get out right now!

      On paper, the Harpoon and Swift aren’t too dissimilar, but I was surprised how different they felt. On paper, the main differences that I can tell are:

      – NS Superlight Wood Core on the Harpoon vs PowerSurf Wood Core on the Swift
      – RDS 2 Damping System on the Harpoon vs RDS 1 Damping System on the Swift
      – The Swift is a little narrower overall. Comparing the 158 Swift to the 156 Harpoon (which are the sizes I rode), the Swift 158 has a 259mm waist, and tip/tail of 316/296 (20mm taper), the Harpoon 262mm waist and 314/301 tip/tail. At inserts I measured the Harpoon 156 at 277mm at front insert and 270mm back insert. The Swift 158 I measured as 272mm front insert and 266mm back insert.
      – While they have the same camber profile technically, I felt the Swift had a more camber dominant feel. Just felt like the camber was more pronounced. It’s possible that the Harpoon has changed in that sense too, though – I didn’t test the 2024 model.

      In terms of riding them, the main differences, from my feel, were:

      – Swift, surprisingly, didn’t feel any more damp – even though it’s supposed to be. And surprisingly didn’t feel any stiffer, which it’s supposed to be. I’m not a big fan of super damp boards, so this could be a plus or a minus depending on how you like it.
      – Swift (significantly) quicker and easier edge-to-edge. Preferred it in trees and in general for short/sharp turns.
      – Preferred swift for carving.
      – Didn’t think the Swift was actually any better for crud or in terms of stability at speed, which was surprising too
      – Preferred the Swift a little for jumps – though neither board are made for it, but swift was pretty good for straight airs, drops, etc.
      – Harpoon better for switch, but again, not really what these kinds of boards are made for.

      I think the Pilot would work on the Swift. It might depend on what size you’re looking at and in reference to your specs. But if you were going from 156 Harpoon to 158 Swift, I think you could do Pilot. Going back on our previous conversations, I think you have the 152 Harpoon right? So you’d likely go 153 Swift, I’m guessing. In which case, I think the Pilot would work fine.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

11. Winston says

    November 8, 2023 at 10:26 am

    Hi Nate!

    Will you be doing a full review for the Salomon Dancehaul? Also curious what size worked for you as I am similar to your specs. (170-175 lbs, size 10 boots, 5’10).

    I’ve tried a 147 and 152, and both were doable and fun in their own ways. If a pro/stiffer version is released, would you recommend a 147 or 152? Looking for a single board quiver to hit up groomers, trees, and powder. Not really into the park, but trying to progress in side hits.

    Thanks!

    Reply

    • Nate says

      November 9, 2023 at 3:25 pm

      Hi Winston

      Thanks for your message. Yes will be doing a full review of the Dancehaul. Currently scheduled for early December.

      I also rode both the 152 and 147! I would go 152 personally and the same for you, IMO. The 147 felt pretty small. Was fun for short/sharp turns, especially in trees, but got pretty unstable at even moderately fast speeds and it wouldn’t be great for float in powder in that size, for our specs. So yeah, I would go 152. I would still go 152 in a pro/stiffer model of it.

      Hope this helps with your decision

      Reply

      • Winston says

        November 9, 2023 at 6:25 pm

        Thanks Nate for the reply!

        I am currently torn between purchasing the new 23/24 Dancehaul Pro LTD that just got released (didn’t expect it since posting my question). I doubt you got to test it out but based on your intuition, which of the 2 boards would be more versatile for what I described? The Dancehaul Pro LTD 152 or Yes Standard Uninc 156 (I purchased this but haven’t rode it yet). I went with the Standard Uninc because I liked the Standard, but wanted more out of a carve.

        Reply

        • Nate says

          November 10, 2023 at 12:28 pm

          Hey Winston

          No I didn’t test the Pro version, didn’t even know they were going to release it. Rep didn’t mention it. They kept that one close to their chests!

          For groomers, trees and powder, I think the Dancehaul Pro 152 is going to be the better option. Having not ridden it, I couldn’t say for sure, but Dancehaul vs Standard Uninc, the Dancehaul is better suited to powder, is more agile for trees. The Standard Uninc, I’d probably prefer for side-hits, particularly if you were going to be spinning 180s or the likes, but I think the Dancehaul will give you enough on side-hits that the other factors outweigh. The Standard Uninc in general, I would say is the more versatile board, but for what you’re describing, particularly if you’re not really riding any switch, I’d say the Dancehaul is more suited.

          Reply

12. Manos says

    November 7, 2023 at 11:57 pm

    Hi Nate,
    I am looking for a board for spring slush and the occasional pow nothing really deep that can hold an edge on morning ice and be on the playful side. I already own a Yes Greats 151 and a regular Yes Standard 153. What would be your recomendation to round out the quiver? 10US 155lbs 5’8”. Boards I was eyeing: Salomon Dancehaul 147, Jones Mind Expander 154, Yes Hybrid 153. Thanks

    Reply

    • Nate says

      November 8, 2023 at 1:23 pm

      Hi Manos

      Thanks for your message.

      A few things to consider between those 3 boards.

      1. The Hybrid is the best in icy conditions, IMO, but the Mind Expander and Dancehaul aren’t too bad. If this was the most important thing for you, then I’d be erring YES Hybrid. Or you could look at something like the GNU Hyper (if you were OK with trying a Hybird Rocker) or the Burton Deep Thinker.

      2. The Hybrid, IMO, is a similar feel, in terms of mellowness, as the Standard. So if that’s the kind of mellow you’re going for, then I think you’ll like it (that said, the 153 Hybrid is a little bigger overall than the Standard, so it may not feel quite as mellow as Standard – see more below – but if you’re OK with that it could work). If you wanted to go mellower than that, then I’d be leaning Mind Expander or Dancehaul. They’re not a massive amount mellower or anything, but they are a little mellower and when looking at size, you have the option to go smaller, depending on how mellow you want to go.

      3. Size

      The Hybrid 153 is a fair bit wider than the Standard 153 (which is already quite wide). For your specs, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 155. I think sizing the Standard to 153 was the right call, because it’s only marginally wide for 10s, IMO. So that was enough of a size down. But the Hybrid is quite a bit wider. Total surface area is 42.3(dm2) on the Hybrid 153 vs 40.6(dm2) on the Standard 153. Width at inserts on the Standard 153 is around 268mm and it’s more like 282mm front insert and 277mm back insert, assuming a 22″ stance width for both. So considerably wider at inserts. YES’s numbers for this are 266mm on the Standard 153 and 279mm front insert and 274mm back insert on the Hybrid 153. They get slightly different numbers for the Hybrid than me, but still considerably wider. Waist and tip and tail also wider and the 153 Hybrid has 2.3cm more effective edge than the 153 Standard, which is not insignificant. Long story short, the Hybrid 153 is going to feel bigger (and bigger typically feels less mellow/playful), so you’re likely to feel it less playful than the Standard and bigger than the Standard 153. If you were going to be riding deep powder a fair bit, then I think the size would work better, but given that it sounds like you won’t be and that you want to keep things playful, it’s erring on a little too big, IMO.

      Based on the sizes you’ve mentioned, the Dancehaul 147 will be the most mellow/playful. But if you had a Mind Expander 150, then that would be similar-ish in playfulness and probably a better size than the 147 Dancehaul, IMO as the 147 is getting a bit on the small side for you, IMO. The 154 Mind Expander is certainly doable though, if you don’t want to go too playful. It should, IMO, feel more playful/mellow than the 153 Hybrid will. So that could be a good middle ground of still being playful, but not super playful, as I think you’d find the Dancehaul in the 147 size.

      Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision

      Reply

      • Manos says

        November 8, 2023 at 11:35 pm

        Hi Nate,
        Thanks for your detailed response! Is the Pyl Uninc Dcp 155 vs the Hybrid 153 closer in dimensions to the Standard 153 that I own? I usually ride 21.5′ to 22′ stance width, +15-15. The Mind Expander 150 is smaller than the Dancehaul 147 from what I saw on the size charts so I think the 154 is more comparable. Correct?

        Reply

        • Nate says

          November 9, 2023 at 3:44 pm

          Hi Manos

          Yeah, in terms of weight recommendations the 147 (132-187lbs) is rated as being “bigger” than the Mind Expander 150 (120-170lbs) but weight recommendations aren’t universal. They are set by the brands, so they’re not uniform across brands, so I wouldn’t read too much into that. The 147 Dancehaul is overall a little wider than the 150 Mind Expander but the extra length on the Mind Expander evens that out. The effective edge is about the same on both. But like I said, the 154 ME would certainly be doable. But the 154 ME is overall bigger than the 147 Dancehaul, IMO.

          I would size-wise, that the 155 PYL Uninc is closer size-wise to the 153 Standard than the Hybrid 153 is, as it has less effective edge and isn’t as wide. But it’s still wider and overall has more surface area than the 153 Standard (with a similar effective edge), so I think it would still feel a bit bigger. We haven’t tested the PYL Uninc, but from what I know of it and based on specs, it’s not a mellow board. If you wanted an aggressive hard charger, then it would probably be a good option (again haven’t ridden it so couldn’t say for sure) but given you want something a little on the playful side, I don’t think it would be what you’re looking for.

          Reply

13. Diana says

    October 27, 2023 at 7:44 am

    Hi Nate,
    I’m looking to get a new board and feeling a bit overwhelmed with all the options. Currently I’ve got the same Burton board that I started on 13 years ago, which i think is a banana rocker board. I’d say I’m an intermediate level snowboarder, and I don’t usually ride all that aggressively. I think I’m looking for sort of a mellow all-mountain/free-ride type board. I never go in the park, just like to make my way down the mountain. My current board is okay, but I find at higher speeds it feels really unstable, and it’s not great on ice. I was looking for something directional cause I almost never ride switch, something that’s stable feeling at higher speeds, good on ice and decent in powder. I was looking at the Jones Stratos, or the Hel Yes but I’m wondering if they’re maybe a bit too advanced for me? Do you have any suggestions of women’s boards that might be good for me? Thank you!
    height 5’3″
    weight 155
    boot 8

    Reply

    • Nate says

      October 27, 2023 at 8:44 am

      Hi Diana

      Thanks for your message. Based on what you’re describing, I think you’d likely find the Stratos a bit too stiff/aggressive. The Hel Yes should be doable, but the Hello is also an option if you want to go a little mellower. It would still give better edge-hold (I’m guessing you were on a Burton V-rocker) and should give you more stability at speed. Without knowing the full specs of your current board, it’s hard to say, but based on the profile, it’s highly likely you’d get a more stable feeling board. The Jones Twin Sister would also be a good option (kind of in between the Hel Yes and Hello in terms of how aggressive it feels).

      But if you wanted to go more directional you could also look at:

      – Jones Women’s Mind Expander
      – Jones Dream Weaver
      – Nidecker Odyssey

      Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 150, but given you like to ride more mellow, you could size down from that a bit. Something in that 146-149 range. But it would also depend on what you’re used to riding. I don’t want to go too much longer than what you’re used to. So, if you could let me know the size of your current board, then I can make a more accurate sizing suggestion, taking that into account. And would be happy to give specific sizing suggestions for the boards mentioned, once I have that info.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

      • Diana says

        October 28, 2023 at 8:34 pm

        It looks like my current board is a 142. What do you think of something like the Never Summer Infinity for me? Or do you think that anything from Lib Tech would work?

        Reply

        • Nate says

          October 30, 2023 at 1:19 pm

          Hi Diana

          The Infinity could work. It’s more mellow than anything else we’ve discussed, so you won’t get as much of an increase in terms of stability at speed with it, IMO. If you size up to at least the 145, then you should at least get some extra stability (again without knowing your exact current board, hard to say for sure).

          From Lib Tech, given you want to keep it at least somewhat mellow and would prefer something more directional (which makes sense if you’re not riding switch or doing anything freestyle), I think the Cortado could work. It’s not a board we’ve tested, but on paper, it looks like it could work well. Because it’s a wider board, I wouldn’t go longer than the 145. But probably not shorter either, so I’d go 145 for that one.

          Reply

          • Diana says

            October 30, 2023 at 1:21 pm

            Thanks so much for your help!

          • Nate says

            October 30, 2023 at 1:42 pm

            You’re very welcome Diana. Hope you have a great season!

14. Fran says

    September 18, 2023 at 6:24 pm

    Hi Nate! I see you answer all comments so I’m crossing my fingers here hoping you answer mine too 🙂

    Next year it is going to be my second season, on my first one I rode 15 days where I really pushed myself, so I wouldn’t say I’m a beginner anymore.

    I’m looking for a first board around $ 400-500. An all mountain, but more oriented into powder than park. A rocker/camber/rocker would be nice, somewhat good pop and ease of turning.

    I found some deals in europe for: Bataleon the thunder, chaser and Salomon Assasin. The YES hybrid I liked it but it is a bit on the $ 500s side so I would like to see what I can find.

    Do you think I’m looking at the right ones? Can you suggest something around it? Thanks a lot

    Reply

    • Nate says

      September 19, 2023 at 1:43 pm

      Hi Fran

      Thanks for your message.

      All 3 would be suitable as an intermediate rider, in my opinion. They all turn easily. The Chaser is definitely the most powder oriented and the Assassin the least powder oriented, with the Thunder in between.

      Note also that the Bataleon boards are technically all camber, but with the 3BT they don’t feel like all-camber.

      Sizing is important too, so make sure you have deals on something that is the right size for you. I would be happy to give my opinion on sizing, would just need your height, weight and boot size.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

      • Fran says

        September 19, 2023 at 5:47 pm

        Thanks for answering!

        My sizes are 5’11” (180cm), 165lbs and use 9.5/10 boots.
        Since it is my first I want a board that can do all, except park (and preferring powpow). Good edge hold for icy conditions is also a good point to consider

        These are the deals I found nearby me:

        Bataleon Chaser (157/159) – $ 365
        Yes Hybrid (157) – $ 400
        Salomon Assasin (156/159) – $ 435
        Capita Navigator (161) – $ 440
        Bataleon Thunder (158) – $ 445
        Burton Skeleton Key (154/158) – $ 470

        After reading your reviews, I think the hybrid would be a good option. What do you think? Thanks again for the help <3

        Reply

        • Nate says

          September 20, 2023 at 1:16 pm

          Hi Fran

          First of all, I have to correct what I said in my last reply. In my head I read Bataleon Cruiser, so when I said “The Chaser is definitely the most powder oriented” I was thinking “The cruiser is definitely the most powder oriented”. The Chaser will be OK in powder, but nothing amazing, IMO. So, to restate that, the Thunder would be the most powder oriented of the 3 you previously mentioned, with the Assassin maybe being a little better in powder than the Chaser but should be quite similar.

          The Chaser is going to be super easy to ride for you, but it’s the most beginner board there and it’s something you’ll likely grow out of pretty quickly, especially given you aren’t looking to ride park.

          The Hybrid and Skeleton Key are a little more advanced than the others, IMO. Still intermediate friendly, but they will be more challenging than the others, IMO, just to make you aware of that. Also size-wise, the Hybrid in a 157 is getting pretty big for your specs, because of it’s extra width.

          In terms of sizing, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 158 for your specs, which assumes an advanced level, so I wouldn’t go longer than 158 at this stage.

          So, I would be debating between the:

          Assassin: 156
          Thunder: 158
          Skeleton Key: 154 (it’s nothing super wide but a little wider than the average board – and being a little more technical than the others, sizing down will also mellow it out a bit, so if you were to go Skeleton Key, that’s the size I would go with).

          Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision

          Reply

15. Paul says

    August 11, 2023 at 6:19 am

    Hi, I’m silver yrs. intermediate freeride. My local small hill is icy and slushy. A few vacations to better powder/Sierra cement. On an Rossi LF1 156cm which I wish was 152. Large turn radius makes me not confident to 180 or side hits, or venture trees, but great on groomer carving. Not good for ice crusted chunder.
    155lbs, 5.6ft 9.5 size boot. active flexible dude.
    What do you recommend?
    Have a great end of summer.
    Thank you.

    Reply

    • Nate says

      August 11, 2023 at 11:19 am

      Hi Paul

      Thanks for your message.

      Firstly in terms of size, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 154, and as an intermediate rider, you could err shorter than that, rather than longer, so I think going down to something in that 152/153 range would be a good bet, especially if you’re looking to get into 180s, sidehits and trees.

      With the assumption you still want some powder performance, but want something that can do ok with 180s and sidehits, I would look at something like the GNU Hyper or the Burton Deep Thinker (note that this is way more mellow than it used to be – our review currently is still for the older one, but I tested the 2024 model in the winter and our review will be updated to reflect this soon) from this list or you could go for a more all-mountain option, if you didn’t need it to be too good in powder.

      Some good all-mountain options include:

      – YES Standard
      – Jones Mountain Twin
      – Lib Tech Terrain Wrecker
      – Slash Brainstorm
      – YES Typo
      – Jones Mind Expander Twin

      I think you’d probably like something like the Bataleon Goliath or their new Thunderstorm, but they aren’t as good, IMO, in icy conditions as the other options mentioned.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

      • Paul says

        August 12, 2023 at 5:29 am

        Thanks. I like the boards that blast through crusted. A little dampness is great too. I think that comes from a thicker board. IDK and camber.
        This helps me narrow the field quite a bit.

        Reply

        • Nate says

          August 12, 2023 at 11:27 am

          Hey Paul.

          Yeah I think camber can help a bit with smashing thorough chop. A bit of weight (as in heavier boards tend to smash through easier than lighter boards) and dampness definitely help.

          Reply

16. Alex says

    January 11, 2023 at 7:46 am

    Hey Nate – I wanted to ask for a few options that you feel might suit me well. I’m looking for a quiver of one that can handle the following well:

    – carving and slashing
    – has great pop
    – can handle powder with ease
    – can handle icy conditions as well
    – good speed
    – gets through chunder and chop
    – has sizing to accommodate 11.5 US boot
    – don’t care about butters, jibbing and park much. Maybe just to hit a couple jumps.
    – I’m advanced intermediate and progressing

    I currently have a Yes Greats but it can’t handle pow and really doesn’t have much pop, tbh. Carves and rides switch like a dream though.

    Thanks for your help and all that you do!

    Reply

    • Nate says

      January 11, 2023 at 11:41 am

      Hi Alex

      Thanks for your message.

      Assuming you’re not concerned about riding switch, there are some here that could work:

      – YES Hybrid: came to mind first, but not going to get any more pop out of it than with the Greats – otherwise could work
      – Skeleton Key: A little more pop, but not as good in icy conditions. Not terrible in icy conditions but a step down from the likes of the Greats, Hybrid and others here.
      – GNU Hyper: I wouldn’t say great pop, but decent enough – and has everything else you’re looking for, IMO
      – Lib Tech BRD: More pop than hyper, but takes a bit more “winding up”/muscling to extract the pop
      – Jones Mind Expander: Not quite as good icy conditions as the YES/Lib/GNU options, but still decent. Again though, pop isn’t what I would call great.
      – Lib Tech E-Jack Knife: A little stiffer than those on this list, but not by a huge amount. Good pop, in my experience. A little more effort to extract but when you wind it up it does give back a bit more. And would work well for everything else you’re describing, IMO.

      Hope this gives you more to go off

      Reply

      • Alex says

        January 12, 2023 at 10:16 am

        Thanks man! I love your list of choices, and will get me hunting and researching…the only one missing that I’m curious about is the Golden Orca. Any thoughts?

        Reply

        • Nate says

          January 13, 2023 at 12:13 pm

          Hi Alex

          I haven’t ridden the Golden Orca unfortunately, so can’t say anything based on experience.

          Assuming it’s similar to the OG Orca, there is some good pop there, from my experience, but you have to really give it some to extract it. It doesn’t come easy. Golden Orca could be similar but not necessarily. A little on the stiffer side I found – again Golden Orca may or not feel the same – though they are rated the same by Lib Tech. I found it was a bit slow edge-to-edge at slower speeds – wasn’t easy to do short sharp turns – felt better with a bit of speed under it. Not super easy to slash turns with. That said, some of that from the Orca is width. The Golden Orca is still volume shifted (short/wide) but not to the same extent as the Orca, so that may be less. It’s likely also lighter, which would help with whipping it around too.

          Reply

          • Alex says

            January 13, 2023 at 1:59 pm

            Thanks again, Nate! I really hope you get a chance to start testing some more Ride boards…Algorythym, Shadowban, etc. I think you’d have some new ‘best of’ candidates. Anyway, thanks again, and your site is better than ever!

          • Nate says

            January 14, 2023 at 12:04 pm

            Thanks Alex

            Definitely hope to get on some of those this winter!

17. Mattia says

    November 30, 2022 at 2:43 am

    Hi Nate,

    first of all, thanks a lot for all your great work reviewing all this gear! I’d like if possible to ask for your opinion and advice. I’m a tall 1.91m and heavy rider (93+kg), I like to ride mainly powder (I will go for those free rides and trees, looking for anything I can surf) and end up on the track only when there is not much powder around.

    I have a Burton Family Tree Hometown 165 W with the Burton Cartel, and I am buying a more dedicated board for those big powder days, the Burton Family Tree Pow Wrench 158. I’m in need to rebuy my boots, and as for my US 12 size, I’m looking for a smaller footprint one…

    Burton ION BOA or Burton Driver X? which would you suggest?

    Thank you in advance!

    Reply

    • Nate says

      November 30, 2022 at 1:35 pm

      Hi Mattia

      Thanks for your message.

      The Pow Wrench is softer flexing than the Hometown Hero – it’s what I felt at around 5/10 flex. So I wouldn’t go as stiff as the Driver X on it. The Ion would work though, so between those 2 I would go Ion for the Pow Wrench for sure. The Ion will work well with the Hometown Hero too – and even for that the Driver X would be a little stiff, IMO.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

18. Matty Fin says

    November 29, 2022 at 12:26 pm

    Hello Nate.
    Love the site and your guidance!
    So looking for a board for my intermediate skills – specifically for navigating bumps, moguls and choppy terrain. Quick turning and easy control is desired. Already have a powder board and a general cruiser.
    5’10”, 175 lbs, and size 10 boots (deadbolts).
    Thinking about Yes Standard 156, Bataleon Cruiser or Capita Navigator 158. Are these too soft.
    Thanks for any guidance!

    Reply

    • Nate says

      November 30, 2022 at 10:52 am

      Hi Matty

      Thanks for your message.

      Not too soft, IMO. Softer boards tend to be easier for quick turning and easy control at slower speeds. So if you need something quick turning for bumps, moguls etc, then I would be more concerned about going too stiff. Stiffer boards do tend to do better at smashing through crud though. And as an intermediate rider, I wouldn’t go too stiff either. Given what you’re describing, I would be looking at either the Cruiser or the Navigator.

      Size-wise, depending on what else you have in your quiver, you could err a little smaller – which will also help with quick turns in tight spots. I would put your “standard all-mountain length at around 158/159, but you could size down from that. If you did go Standard, then the 156 would work – and you could even size that down to 153, to make it even more nimble. The Navigator is suitable in the 158 too, but you could also consider going down to the 155. For the Cruiser, being a wider board, I wouldn’t go longer than the 156. The 151 might be a little too small though, so probably 156 for that one.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

      • Matty Fin says

        November 30, 2022 at 11:22 am

        Nate. You and your sight are awesome. It can be very overwhelming with so much product available, and limited days to board and “try out” equipment.

        Maybe I should stick to more freeriding(mellow) and all-mtn freeride – as I never do tricks or the park. Just exploring & turning…

        That being said, also looking at the K2 Passport, LibTech Dynamo or anything else…?
        I like the idea of the Passport 157.

        So generally, what is the difference felt for a board that is centered (standard) vs a setback stanced one?

        And finally, how big a deal is the taper in Non-Powder days.

        I would like to contribute to your sight/service if possible. Do you have a way to donate/sign up for service?

        Thanks Again!

        Reply

        • Nate says

          November 30, 2022 at 1:48 pm

          Hi Matty

          I haven’t ridden the Passport so can’t say much there. Based on specs, it looks to be a little stiffer than the likes of the Navigator or Cruiser but it’s doesn’t look to be super stiff or anything.

          The Dynamo is what I felt at a 6/10 flex. It’s pretty camber dominant but as far as C3 boards from Lib Tech go, the C3 felt more mellow than on some of their other models, when I rode it. So I think it’s still suitable for intermediate and for the type of riding you’re looking to do with it.

          A centered board makes it easier to ride switch, because it feels more or less the same riding in either direction. Some boards are centered but might still have a longer nose than tail, but that typically only comes into play in powder. So when a board says centered but it’s not a true twin, then what they’re referring to is that you’re “centered on effective edge”. Assuming it’s a twin flex, twin sidecut, which is typically the case when you’re centered on effective edge, then it should feel the same riding both directions. When you’re setback you have more sidecut in front of your front foot than you do behind your back foot. This makes it harder for riding switch, but better in powder – being further back on the board makes it easier to keep the nose above powder. I also prefer having a little bit of setback for carving, but still enjoy carving twins and centered stance boards. But all else being equal a bit of setback I find helps with carving.

          When it comes to taper, it depends on how much there is. A lot of taper can lead to the tail washing out when you’re trying to carve. Usually when the taper is fairly subtle I find this isn’t too much of an issue though. Also it makes riding switch harder.

          I appreciate the thought to contribute. You can contribute to the site through paypal here with half the proceeds going to POW – or you can also become a Patron here. I have literally just set up the Patron thing and I’m working on some extra benefits of becoming a patron, but it’s a slow process as it’s hard to find the time, but there will be some things developing there soon.

          Reply

19. chaz says

    November 19, 2022 at 9:30 pm

    Hi Nate

    I am considering a Bataleon Cruiser as a cheaper , possibly softer, version to a 2023 Mind Expander. There are not many reviews yet and I understand you may have a review coming soon. However judging by your scores for the Cruiser and comparing to the 2023 Mind Expander scores it looks like the cruiser is possibly a tad surfier and better through the trees which I am okay with and gives up a little in carving. Can you compare the two?

    I want to try a board with some 3d shaping as I have never tried it before. I have heard several times that Bataleon 3BT takes some time to get used to but for some reason I have never heard similar comments on other boards “Spoon tech” or 3d shaping in the nose/tail. Do you note any differences with the cruiser 3BT and Mind Expander spoon tech in the nose and tail?

    Reply

    • Nate says

      November 21, 2022 at 10:57 am

      Hi Chaz

      Thanks for your message.

      The 3BT does feel different to the likes of Jones’ Spoon Tech. Hard to describe it, but it feels more obvious that it’s there. I personally didn’t take long to get used to Bataleon’s 3BT, but I do ride a lot of different boards, so I think I adapt pretty quickly. But I think it probably does take a little bit more getting used to over something like spoon tech, just because it’s a more obvious feeling of it being there, if that makes sense. Didn’t take me long to get used to it and whilst it might take someone who doesn’t test as many boards a little longer, I don’t think it would be a crazy amount of time or anything.

      We will have Cruiser review coming out, but there’s a bit of back log right now, so I’m not sure when we’ll get it out. Though I could try and prioritize getting it out earlier.

      I would say their flex is pretty similar. If anything the Cruiser marginally stiffer. But the Cruiser is a little surfier but again pretty similar. Quite similar for trees. Note that we rode the Cruiser in a 156 and the Mind Expander in a 154, so that should be taken into account. The Cruiser 156 is also wider at the waist and wider at the back insert and the tail and nose vs the Mind Expander 154 – though a bit narrower at the front insert. But overall, the Cruiser 156 is not only a little longer but overall a little wider too. So size-for-size, the Cruiser would likely be a little better in trees – and likely feel a little softer than the Mind Expander too, as bigger boards tend to feel stiffer than their smaller equivalents.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

      • Chaz says

        November 24, 2022 at 7:13 pm

        Thats great info. Thanks!

        I think im going to try the Cruiser. It sounds like what I’m after.
        I am a bigger dude so dont mind it being wider and/or longer. It will be a late season purchase so will wait for the review to drop.

        Cheers!

        Reply

        • Nate says

          November 25, 2022 at 1:48 pm

          You’re very welcome Chaz. Hope you have an awesome season!

          Reply

20. Carlos says

    August 8, 2022 at 2:07 am

    Hello Nate, one question. I am thinking in buying the yes hybrid, because i see that it really do it well in terms of speed, carving, powder, jumps, etc. (about 4) and it keeps a not extreme flex feel, i really love the powder and freeride, but i only take it 20% of the days i ride. If i buy a yes hybrid, am i buying something specific tool for powder? sacrificing the piste normal days, or is it really good too for this days without powder just inside the tracks? If i see the ratings, i can think that this board will be perfect for it, but i dont know if a “specific freeride board” could have deficiency in the 80% of no freeride days.
    I like jumps, ride in all the mountain and freeride, but i am not interested in slow park or freestyle.
    I am 187lb and 6,13 feet.
    Thank you so much! 🙂

    Reply

    • Nate says

      August 8, 2022 at 11:01 am

      Hi Carlos

      Thanks for your message.

      I found the Hybrid to be good on the groomed runs. It’s not great for riding switch, so it’s not particularly good for 180s and that type of thing, but I found it really good for straight air jumps and side hits. And it did well carving on groomed runs. Certainly not ideal for switch, spins and jibs (rails, boxes etc) but if you’re not doing this it should treat you fine on groomed runs, when there’s no powder around. Not something I would consider a powder specific board – but is very good in powder.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

      • Carlos says

        August 24, 2022 at 9:39 am

        Thank you Nate, your comments, advices and reviews have been so important for me since i started snowboarding 3 years ago. I think that the yes hybrid will work perfect for me. Now I wonder what kind of snowboard bindings should i use with this board. I don’t know if something like the union strata will be really proper, or if it should be stiffer. What would you recommend me? About the size of the board, with the measures i gave you in the last comment, the 161 yes hybrid would be fine for me? Thank you! 🙂

        Reply

        • Nate says

          August 24, 2022 at 12:32 pm

          Hi Carlos

          Thanks for your message.

          I think the Strata could work on the Hybrid. Anything that’s at least a 6/10 flex and up to 8/10 would be what I’d look at. The Strata, by my feel, are a 6/10 flex, so that would work. Lots of options in that flex range, but the Strata would work, IMO. To check out more options check out:

          >>Top 5 All Mountain Bindings

          >>Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings

          Note that some in that first list might be a little too soft.

          For sizing for the Hybrid could you also let me know your boot size. And also can you confirm when you say 6,13 feet, is that 6 foot 1 inch and a bit?

          Reply

          • Carlos says

            August 25, 2022 at 1:09 am

            The next season I am going to use the Adidas response 3mc in US12 or US12.5, not sure for the moment.

            187cm/85kg

          • Nate says

            August 25, 2022 at 10:17 am

            Thanks for the extra info Carlos.

            Yeah I think 161 would be your best bet. I would put your “standard length” at 161 and with 12 or 12.5 boots, you shouldn’t need to size down for the Hybrid. At your specs and smaller foot size, I would have gone down to 157, but with 12s you can stick with 161. 157 also wouldn’t be wrong (if you wanted a more maneuverable but less floaty/less stable at speed ride) but I’d be leaning 161 for you.

21. Dano says

    April 13, 2022 at 7:06 pm

    Aloha again!

    I wrote you recently on the Showstopper – Thank you for the quick reply. I want to buy a new board, but like so my any others torn on what to get. Your insight is truly a service to the sport, and I recommend your site to anyone that has a question about snowboard gear or setup.

    Once again, I’m 5-10, 165lbs, 10.5 boot (Photon) and have some newer Genesis EST’s. I consider myself an intermediate, who dabbles in trees and very rarely hit the park. I ride and ski Park City easily 45-60 days. I ride switch when I need to but not regularly, I’m not into big speed and like the option of quick side-to-side along with a carve. Currently have an old Process V Rocker and an older Niche Story. I love the Process because it’s so easy to drive/turn/stop despite the speed. The Niche I ride less because it does better at speed – I do not take it in trees.

    I want to possibly retire the Process and move on to something else as a Utah daily driver. I’m locked into buying Burton because of the EST’s and they will start discounting 21/22 beginning this week (I think). Initially I was sold on a Custom Flying V 158cm but now I am thinking the Show Stopper 154cm. Neither board is cheap.

    I realize these are different boards but the goal is the same. Do you have any thoughts before I pull the trigger??

    Again, big mahalo
    🤙🤙🍻

    Reply

    • Nate says

      April 16, 2022 at 5:05 pm

      Hi Dano

      Thanks for your message.

      I would say that the Custom Flying V is a little quicker edge to edge, though that said, the size difference will even that out. The Custom Flying V is a “looser” feel compared to the more precise feeling on the Show Stopper. The Show Stopper better on a carve and better at speed (though I think the Custom Flying V would be enough speed-wise, based on what you’re describing and being the longer length). The Custom Flying V, IMO, better in park and riding switch. Custom Flying V will be a closer feel, though certainly not the same, to your Process V Rocker.

      Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision

      Reply

22. Ash says

    February 23, 2022 at 4:14 am

    Hey Nate,

    I was hoping you could make a recommendation or two for my first board purchase!
    I’m 170cm, 75KG (hopefully a bit less by next season), size 9 boot (US). Ridden about 15 days in total so probably on the intermediate side of beginner I guess….definitely need to work on my posture for my toes turns for sure.

    Conditions wise I’m based in Europe so could get powder, packed snow and likely some icey stuff. I ride mainly on the pistes and one day will ride the powder when I get some on a trip so want somethign that can handle that, I’m not interested in the park but I do like playing around a bit with butters and spins. I hired a pretty stiff board this season and really struggled with it at times although did enjoy the board a bit more at speed, last year boarding I did prefer a stable feeling more medium flex board.

    I’ve been looking at the lib tech terrain wrecker (maybe too aggressive rather than damp?), yes hybrid based on your reviews and the yes PLY (which again might be a bit much for me?) I’m not suck on any of them though so any recco’s would be awesome.

    Cheers!

    Reply

    • Ash says

      February 23, 2022 at 4:16 am

      Forgot to mention…..looking for something mellow but responsive turning I wonder if the hybrid might not be good for that in harder snow conditions?

      Reply

      • Nate says

        February 25, 2022 at 2:20 pm

        Hi Ash

        Thanks for your message.

        For how wide it is, the Hybrid isn’t too bad in terms of quick turns – and does well in hard conditions. That said, if you want something really quick turning, then looking at something else makes sense, but it’s certainly not an ocean liner to turn or anything. If you did go Hybrid, the 153 would be your best bet.

        The PYL isn’t mellow and, IMO, would be a bit too much of a stretch for your current level. An awesome board, but a bit too much right now, IMO).

        The Terrain Wrecker would definitely work – it’s on the slightly looser side of stable though, so if you’re really looking for that more stable feeling, then something more hybrid camber might be a safer bet. I really like the TW, but it does have that rocker between the feet which makes it on the looser side – fun if you want it, but if you don’t want it, then you’re better off looking at something hybrid camber, IMO.

        Something like the Capita Navigator, Jones Mountain Twin, Rossignol One, YES Standard, Slash Brainstorm would all work for what you’re describing. They’re all a bit of a stretch for your level, but doable and I think would suit what you’re describing well.

        Size-wise, I’d be looking at:

        – Standard: 153
        – Mountain Twin: 154
        – Navigator: 155
        – One: 156
        – Brainstorm: 154

        Hope this helps with your decision

        Reply

        • Ashley says

          April 26, 2022 at 9:16 am

          Thanks Nate, much appreciated. I actually ended up gong with the hybird 153 after getting an opportunity to test it and it suits me really well. 🙂

          Reply

          • Nate says

            April 26, 2022 at 3:49 pm

            Hi Ashley

            Thanks for the update. And awesome to hear that the Hybrid is working well for you!

23. Luis says

    February 21, 2022 at 9:45 am

    Hey Nate!

    I keep coming back to your site. Love it! ~4 years ago you helped me choose my current NS Snowtrooper 152: comment 9114

    Since then (despite COVID) I think I have improved: I can do all blues and start venturing on blacks. I would like your advice on whether it’s time to buy another board or if I can continue with the Snowtrooper.

    I’m still 5’6, 165lbs, wearing 32 double boa size 8.5

    These are my thoughts:
    -Don’t love that the trooper is very easy to spin whenever I try to do aggressive turns but I like that is forgivable/doesn’t catch edges
    -I’m becoming more of an all mountain freerider…don’t see myself hitting the rails any time soon (too old for that) but I want to eventually do some jumps around the mountain
    -A friend keeps saying that my current 152 is too small for me (I don’t think so?)
    -Saving for a bucket list powder improvement trip to Japan next season…

    I’m happy to continue with my Snowtrooper (and save money haha) but at the same time don’t want to limit my growth if there’s another board I can use for resort powder days but friendly enough to handle groomers with friends.

    I think the Snowtrooper + another one would be a good idea/cover all my needs or is it too soon to have two boards? I’m liking your review on the Yes Hybrid…what do you think?

    Reply

    • Nate says

      February 22, 2022 at 11:45 am

      Hi Luis

      Good to hear from you again.

      Never a bad idea having multiple decks in a quiver, IMO, if you can.

      Size-wise, as a more advanced rider than you were, you could go a little longer, but it’s nothing way off. I would put your “standard all-mountain” size as around 155/156, assuming an advanced level. With your boot size, sizing down a little bit from that, even at an advanced level, is a good idea. So I think 152 was spot on, initially and now you could go a little longer, but I would go super long. If you do go Hybrid 153 for sure. Being a wider board, you want to size down for it anyway. The 153 will be more like a 156/157. But as part of a quiver, particularly for powder days, I think it could work well. Would certainly give you more stability at speed and stronger, bigger carves and will give extra float in powder. So I think it would compliment the Snowtrooper well as your powder/freeride board. Will likely feel it less maneuverable and harder to learn things like jumps on, but you can always use your Snowtrooper for those things.

      I don’t think it’s 100% necessary to change or add a board to the quiver if you wanted to save money – but given that you’re finding it a bit wanting for aggressive turns and going to be seeing some more powder, then I think adding a board to the quiver would certainly be advantageous.

      Hope this helps with your decision

      Reply

      • Luis says

        February 22, 2022 at 1:48 pm

        Thanks, Nate! Very insightful comments – appreciate it.

        If I do decide to pull the trigger on an additional friendly freeride powder board – is the Yes Hybrid the best option? What else do you think could be suitable for me?

        Also, when adding another board to the quiver, do you usually also buy another set of bindings or just change the ones you have as needed? (assuming money is not the factor here). Currently using Flow’s Fuse Hybrid.

        Thanks again.

        Reply

        • Nate says

          February 24, 2022 at 12:16 pm

          Hi Luis

          Thanks for your message.

          I think the Hybrid would work well. But if you wanted to check out some other options you could also look at >>Top 10 Surfy (mellow) Freeride Snowboards.

          In terms of getting an extra set of bindings, it’s always convenient to have it but not always necessary – if money wasn’t a factor, then I’d do it. If money is a factor, then it really depends on the boards in the quiver. If you have something super soft and something super stiff, then there wouldn’t be a set of bindings that would match both boards well, so in that case I’d go for two sets of bindings. In this case, I think the Flow Fuse should match the Hybrid fine and if you wanted to save money, it’s not necessary to have a second set of bindings.

          Reply

          • Luis says

            April 2, 2022 at 7:39 pm

            Hey Nate! Me again 🙂

            Had a chance to demo a NS Harpoon 152 today. Really liked it! Seems to be what I’m looking for: something more advanced and directional than the SnowTrooper but still surfy and fun.

            Snow was bad (slushy spring) but the board felt stable when gaining speed, turns were good, and was not bad to maneuver when I was tired and just wanted to cruise. If anything I think the bindings didn’t help (Union Falcor) — felt very stiff and responsive. First time riding with that type of bindings. I think I prefer softer bindings.

            So, the shop is offering me a nice discount and taking the rental money if I pull the trigger on the Harpoon 152

            With what you know about me (8.5 boots / 165lbs athletic / 5’6 height) and what I’m looking for (the mythical surfy board that is good for carving, groomers and pow):

            -Is the Harpoon a good option? If so – is 152 the right size? The other option is 148 but seems kinda small though I know this board should be sized down
            OR
            -Should I wait to demo more boards (LibTech BRD and Yes Hybrid in particlar) How would they compare to my experience today? I can’t take the Hybrid out of my head but haven’t found a shop that has it for demo!
            Thank you so much, Nate!

          • Nate says

            April 4, 2022 at 6:38 pm

            Hi Luis

            Good to hear from you again.

            Given how you describe your experience with the Harpoon, I think it’s a good bet. And I think 152 works. It’s sizing down already and I think it’s sizing down enough. The 148 might be sizing down a little too much. I think you could get away with it, if you wanted something super maneuverable and wasn’t worried about speed, but at that size, might not do you for speed as much as you’d like. You were 152 for Snowtrooper and that’s not a board to size down on – but as a beginner you would size down, as you did and that was a good size at the time, but now that you’ve progressed, you could go up to a 155/156 in a narrower width, so I think 152 should work well (and sounds like it did).

            I would say the Falcors aren’t like massively too stiff for the Harpoon, but they are on the stiffer side, so you could certainly go softer than them on it. 5/10 flex would be the softest I would go and ideally something around 6/10, in terms of bindings.

24. Dylan says

    February 15, 2022 at 10:52 am

    Hey Nate – love all the reviews and specifically this surfy freeride section, so thank you.

    I am looking to get a new daily driver / all mountain medium flex board. I am 6’3 190-195 lbs, 34 years old, been riding 20 years. Surf freeride style, Love big carves and turns + slash around on groomers and sides, not much park but enjoy small/medium jumps and boxes and chase powder as much as possible.

    Predominantly riding the 160 Korua dart lately so pretty well set for powder days and it excels in groomer carving. Ive read you haven’t tried one yet, really looking forward to read your review once you do! Really really love this thing but looking to compliment this with a goal of a 2 board travel quiver.
    Looking to compliment where the dart lacks, so tight tress, side hits, smaller jumps/boxes, little bit of switch riding ability, and lastly steeper bowls and bigger mountain ability if the opportunity arises when traveling. Powder is a plus but not the main focus ( I also have an older Burton 159 Branch manager)
    I know that’s a broad range so hopefully something that checks almost all the boxes. Some shapes Im choosing between, no particular order:

    Korua Otto 161
    Burton Skeleton key 158/162
    Burton show stopper 158/162
    Burton flight attendant 159W
    Jones Mountain twin 159W/162W
    Jones mind expander twin 158
    GNU Hyper 159W

    Would love to hear what you would recommend most, really value your insight.

    Thank you!

    Reply

    • Nate says

      February 16, 2022 at 10:28 am

      Hi Dylan

      Thanks for your message.

      My first thought was the Hyper. It seems to tick most boxes – something that’s surfy feeling, medium flex, good for trees and jumps but can also carve and is OK for switch. You would have to get used to having rocker between the feet, compared to your other boards, but otherwise I think that would be a really good match. In that size too, it’s a little on the small side for your specs, so that will help with tight turns in trees. Not going to be a bomber at speed but can handle a little speed.

      The Skeleton Key and Show Stopper would also work well – they’re a more precise feel, versus surfy, IMO, but otherwise tick most boxes too.

      The Mind Expander is definitely surfy and would be great for powder, tight trees etc, but if you’re still wanting to carve a bit, I didn’t find it great for carving or speed. The 2023 Mind Expander is getting a new profile that is going to have some camber in it, so I’d say that will be a better carver, but the current model isn’t great for carving or speed, IMO.

      The Flight Attendant might be just on the stiff side for what you’re looking for – it’s not ultra stiff or anything but more mid-stiff by my feel – 7/10. The Show Stopper a little stiffer too but not quite as stiff as FA.

      The Mountain Twin would be a good option as well, IMO. It’s a really good all-rounder.

      Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision

      Reply

      • Dylan says

        February 17, 2022 at 1:56 pm

        Thanks Nate. Very helpful insight. appreciate it

        Reply

        • Nate says

          February 18, 2022 at 12:14 pm

          You’re very welcome Dylan. Happy riding!

          Reply

25. Max says

    February 7, 2022 at 4:17 pm

    I’m torn between the yes pyl and the Jones Flagship. I’m in the pnw, advanced rider that hits fast groomers but mostly am looking for powder and trees. We do get ice crud periodically. What are your thoughts? I’m currently on the newest version of the burton step ons, size 11.5 and weigh 167. What size would you recommend. Thank you Max

    Reply

    • Nate says

      February 8, 2022 at 12:18 pm

      Hi Max

      Thanks for your message.

      For fast groomers, I’d take the PYL and for carving but for powder and trees, I’d take the Flagship. But in saying that, the Flagship is good on a carve and bombing and the PYL is good in powder and trees – so I don’t think there’s a wrong choice there – but if there was anything you were looking to optimize more than the other.

      Size-wise, if you could also let me know your height, that would be great. Whilst weight and boot size are certainly more important factors than height, height still counts to some degree, IMO. I would say probably:

      – PYL: 160W
      – Flagship: 159W

      But if you could let me know your height, just to confirm. I can’t see them changing, but like to take everything into account.

      Hope this helps

      Reply

      • Max says

        February 8, 2022 at 1:37 pm

        Nate,
        5’11”
        Thank you!

        Reply

        • Nate says

          February 9, 2022 at 12:43 pm

          Hi Max

          Thanks for the extra info. Yeah those sizes would be your best bet, IMO. Didn’t think it would change it, but always like to make sure. Happy riding!

          Reply

          • Max Coleman says

            March 13, 2022 at 1:18 pm

            Nate,
            I went with a 159w flagship and unfortunately it wasn’t for me. I just couldn’t maneuver it quite how I wanted edge to edge (I’m wondering if it’s the width). I guess in hindsight I want something that turns quicker. It’s for sale now and I’m looking at a burton hometown hero or flight attendant. It looks like the FA would be wide enough at a 159 without going wide and the hh would be a 156w or the 160. The 160 though says weight 180 whereas I way about 170. What are your thoughts? 5’11” 170lbs, burton photon step ons size 11. Oh I can’t tell if my message went through on your fa review.please disregard if it did

          • Max Coleman says

            March 13, 2022 at 1:31 pm

            Nate,
            Sorry just to add. I’m also considering the show stopper. Size and board recommendations would be fantastic. Also, if you noticed from my very first post I went from an 11.5 to an 11 with the burton step on photon (I went to a wide and it’s made a world of difference). Thank you again!

          • Nate says

            March 14, 2022 at 12:22 pm

            Hi Max

            I got your message on the FA review as well, but have deleted it and will answer here.

            Quite possibly the width. With the Flagship it’s especially wide at the front insert – around 280mm on the 159W I would predict. At the back insert it’s not as wide though – more like 275mm – which for 11.5s is good. But potentially a little wider overall than you prefer. With 11s, you can certainly err narrower and narrower does typically translate to quicker edge to edge (all else being equal – as other things play a role in that as well).

            With the FA, it’s borderline in the 159 as to whether it’s wide enough. It could be doable, but it’s close. I would predict it’s around 26.6cm at the back insert and with Photon Step Ons in 11, I would predict them to be around 31.4cm on the outsole. That leaves total overhang at 4.8cm – or 2.4cm overhang per edge (toe and heel) assuming perfect centering. This is assuming a roughly 22″ (560mm) stance width. If you’re really pushing the carves deep (e.g. eurocarves) then you’ll likely want a bit less overhang than that. But if you’re not doing eurocarving or anything, and preferably have some angle on your back binding (which reduces the amount of overhang), then I think you could get away with it. Burton boots have a good toe bevel on them too, so that helps as well. But certainly no guarantees you won’t get boot drag. I have ridden boards as narrow as 256mm at the inserts without issue, with 10s – kind of the equivalent of riding 266mm with 11s. That’s in low profile boots and +15/-15 binding angles.

            If you wanted to size down a bit for better maneuverability you could go to the 156W Hometown Hero – and it’s going to be a good width for 11s, IMO. But you do sacrifice a little in terms of stability at speed for going shorter. I wouldn’t be too worried about the weight recommendations on the 160 – it would be a good length for you, IMO. Only slightly narrower than the 156W – and a little wider than the 159 FA. Again, it’s close to being too narrow, but you probably get away with it, depending on binding angles and carving.

          • Max says

            March 15, 2022 at 8:21 am

            And last , your recommendations??

          • Nate says

            March 15, 2022 at 11:24 am

            Hi Max

            If you want the quicker turning at the sacrifice of some stability at speed, versus what you experienced with the Flagship, then I would be leaning 154 Show Stopper or 156W Hometown Hero. If you want just a little better in terms agility, but maintaining that stability at speed, then I’d be looking 158 Show Stopper or FA 159 (if you think you’ll get away with it width-wise – it’s really borderline).

          • Max says

            March 15, 2022 at 5:19 pm

            After reading your answers I went with the Show Stopper 158. I should be able to get on it a couple times before the years out. It seems to be a good fit, quick turning, stable at speed and it looks to be a monster in the best deep conditions😎. I recommend this site to friends all the time. I hope it’s a much better fit for me than the Jones flagship (I actually think that board would have been great if I wouldn’t have had to gone wide). Sincerely thank you for your time and effort responding to all my questions!

          • Nate says

            March 16, 2022 at 5:59 pm

            You’re very welcome Max. Let me know how you get on with the Showstopper, if you think of it at the time.

          • Max says

            April 7, 2022 at 10:02 pm

            Nate, I’m almost embarrassed to write you again. The showstopper didn’t go through. Long story short I’m not sure if it was a scam or if they ran out of inventory. I have finally been reimbursed. I’ve figured out my boot comfort issue and am riding a K2 maysis 10.5 wide. I’m back to square one. I really think my issue with the Jones flagship 159w is it was just too wide for my boot size. They have 2 of the 2022 pyl’s 160w. At a really good price My understanding is they’re not nearly as wide as the FS and I think my 10.5 k2s would probably fit well. The other option is the flight attendant, the 159w seems really wide though. Thank you so much!

          • Nate says

            April 8, 2022 at 8:50 pm

            Hi Max

            Awesome to hear that you’ve figured out the boot comfort issue. That’s an important one to get sorted.

            PYL 160W vs Flagship 159W vs Flight Attendant in terms of width”

            PYL: 270mm back insert, 272mm front insert, 260mm waist
            Flagship: 275mm back insert, 280mm front insert, 263mm waist
            FA: 273mm back insert, 274mm front insert, 264mm waist

            So, the PYL is quite a bit narrower than the Flagship and narrower than the FA too. Note that the 2022 PYL is stiffer than the Showstopper, and stiffer than the Flagship as well, in my experience. The 2023 PYL gets softened up a bit. The Hometown Hero is also worth looking into – the 160 should be wide enough for 10.5s (even K2 10.5s, which tend to be a longer profile, but even so should be OK) – it’s around 268mm at the inserts.

          • Max Coleman says

            April 22, 2022 at 8:31 pm

            Nate, I just wanted to say thank you. I bought the Yes PYL and was able to take it out over the last 2 days. It’s amazing, pretty much what I though the Flagship would be. It’s a blast to turn and wants to go fast. I love it. I learned an incredible amount. I think ultimately the difference was how well the board fit me width wise. Crazy I initially never would have thought one board would work better for me than another due to that. Thank you for your time and replys. This board will last me for years to come. Plus the art on the top sheet is incredible! Thank you again.

          • Nate says

            April 25, 2022 at 4:03 pm

            Hi Max

            Thanks for the update and you’re very welcome. Awesome to hear that the PYL is treating you well. Yeah, there’s definitely some things that don’t seem like they would make much difference that actually do really change a ride.

        • Max says

          March 14, 2022 at 1:16 pm

          And what size for the show stopper. Thank you!

          Reply

          • Nate says

            March 15, 2022 at 11:20 am

            My apologies, forget to mention the Show Stopper.

            Size-wise for the Show Stopper, I would say most likely 158. It is around 276mm at the inserts, so on the wider side. As wide at the back as the Flagship but not as wide at the front. I found the Show Stopper really nice and agile – but I did ride the 154 (6’0″, 175lbs, 9.5 boots) – but with bigger feet, I would have happily ridden the 158. 154 is an option for you, if you wanted to have that better maneuverability – and it’s wide enough for your boots, for sure – I still found it good at speed, even in the 154, but in saying that you’d still be sacrificing stability at speed, if you went down to 154 (and powder float).

    • Max says

      April 8, 2022 at 6:11 am

      So with all that with the FA what’s your size recommendation and the the pyl am I right that it’s not overly wide on the 160w with my 10.5 wide maysis boots? Also, binding recommendation for the pyl? Thank you once again, I promise you won’t hear from me for at least a year😂.

      Reply