Hello and welcome to my Burton Deep Thinker snowboard review.
In this review, I will take a look at the Deep Thinker as a mellow freeride snowboard.
As per tradition here at SnowboardingProfiles.com I will give the Deep Thinker a score out of 100 (based on several factors) and see how it compares with other mellow freeride snowboards.
Overall Rating
Board: Burton Deep Thinker
Price: $639
Style: Mellow Freeride
Flex Rating: Medium-Stiff
Flex Feel on Snow: Medium (6/10)
Rating Score: 92.1/100
Compared to other Men’s Mellow Freeride Boards.
Of the 30 current model mellow freeride snowboards that we tested:
❄️ The Deep Thinker ranked 2nd out of 30
Overview of the Deep Thinker’s Specs
Check out the tables for the Deep Thinker's specs and available sizes.
Specs
STYLE:
MELLOW FREERIDE
PRICE:
$639 - BUYING OPTIONS
Ability Level:
flex:
feel:
DAMPNESS:
SMOOTH /SNAPPY:
Playful /aggressive:
Edge-hold:
camber profile:
DIRECTIONAL HYBRID CAMBER
DIRECTIONAL HYBRID CAMBER - Burton's "Directional Camber"
SHAPE:
setback stance:
setback 1" (25mm)
BASE:
SINTERED - Burton's "Sintered WFO Base"
weight:
felt LIGHTER THAN normal
Camber Height:
10.5mm!
Sizing
LENGTH (cm) | Waist Width (mm) | Rec Rider Weight (lb) | Rec Rider Weight (kg) |
|---|---|---|---|
154 | 248 | 120-180 | 54-82 |
157 | 252 | 150-200 | 68-91 |
160 | 255 | 180-260+ | 82-118+ |
157W | 260 | 150-200 | 68-91 |
160W | 263 | 180-260+ | 82-118+ |
163W | 265 | 180-260+ | 82-118+ |
Who is the Deep Thinker Most Suited To?
The Deep Thinker is best suited to anyone looking for a freeride first board that can do a bit of everything, but isn't too fatiguing or too difficult to ride, but want that feeling of a predominantly camber profile under their feet.
It's something that get a little aggressive when you want it to, but can also be fun ridden slow and more playfully, so if you're looking for a bit of both, this board is worth considering.
While it's pretty easy to ride, it's not beginner friendly.
The Deep Thinker in More Detail
O.k. let’s take a more detailed look at what the Deep Thinker is capable of.
Demo Info
Board: Burton Deep Thinker 2024, 157 (252mm waist width)
Date: March 9, 2023
Conditions
High cloud with some blue. Sun came through at times.
Temperature was around 0°C (39°F) - and -6°C (37°F) with wind chill in morning and 1°C (41°F) (and -4°C (39°F) with wind) in the afternoon.
Easterly winds morning at 15kph (10mph) morning and NEE at 15kph (10mph) in the afternoon.
24 hour snow: 0.4" (1cm)
48 hour snow: 0.8" (2cm)
7 day snow: 13" (33cm)
On groomer: Hard packed but not icy. Got a little softer as the day went on, but never went to the point of getting slushy or anything.
Off groomer: A little icy/crunchy in places but doable.
Set Up
Bindings angles: +15/-15
Stance width: 560mm (22″)
Stance Setback: Setback 1" (25mm)
Width at front inserts: 266mm (10.47")
Width at back insert: 265mm (10.43")
Rider Height: 6'0"
Rider Weight: 180lbs
Rider Boot Size: US9.5 Adidas Response ADV
Bindings Used: Burton Malavita M
Control Board for Control Laps: Lib Tech Terrain Wrecker
Weight: 2780grams (6lbs 13oz)
Weight per cm: 17.71 grams/cm
Average Weight per cm: 18.71 grams/cm*
*based on a sample size of around 250 models that I’ve weighed in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 & 2024 models. The Deep Thinker was lighter than average on the scales and it felt noticeably lighter than normal on snow too.
Changes for the 2024 model
I believe these changes were in effect for the 2023 model, but carry on into the 2024 model. But we didn't specifically test the 2023 model, but have it on good authority that the 2023 model is when it first changed.
Whilst there are no changes that are obvious with this boards, in terms of published specs, it is a vastly different board to the last time I rode it.
The older models were, in my experience, a lot damper, stiffer and smoother, with the new one getting much snappier and lighter.
I overall far prefer the new model, but if you prefer things smooth and damp, you may not be as enthusiastic as me. But for me these board has transformed into one of my new favorites.
Powder
Didn't get a significant amount to test in on the day, but based on specs and feel, it should be really decent. It's got a 1" setback on effective edge, slightly longer nose than tail, 7mm of taper and some rocker in the tip.
Carving
You can lay down some really good carves on this board - even at pretty high speeds. It favors a tighter radius carve rather than longer more drawn out carves.
Turning
Ease of Turning/Slashing: The Deep Thinker was surprisingly easy for initiating carves and for slashing turns. For how well it carves, it's even better for casual turning and slashing.
Maneuverability at slow speeds: Nice and quick edge-to-edge when riding slow.
Catchiness: Given how much camber this board has (10.5mm!), it's surprisingly un-catchy.
Speed
Despite being fun to ride slower and being quite playful at slow speeds, the Deep Thinker manages to be nice and stable riding fast.
Uneven Terrain
Crud: Even though it's quite light and not super damp (but not un-damp either), it handled crud nicely. Not immune to being thrown around, but remains quite stable in most crud, with a little chatter but not too much.
Trees/Bumps: Felt really good in trees. It's nice and agile, even at slower speeds and just feels really good weaving between whatever's in front of it.
Jumps
This thing was great for jumps! Probably my favorite board for jumping that's not a twin.
Pop: There is a heap of pop in this board, which isn't a big surprise given the big bow of camber it has. But what was a little surprising was how easy it was extract that pop. It doesn't take much effort at all. When you do wind it up, there is even more pop, but most of it comes without having to put too much effort into it.
Approach: Great combination of being stable for when you need to pick your line and bomb the approach but at the same time easy to adjust your line or speed check when you need to.
Landing: I found I could stomp landings on this thing. But it's also forgiving when you don't quite get it right. Tail heavy landings aren't ideal but they're not too bad either.
Side-hits: Really liked this board for side-hits, with its easy access pop and easy maneuverability.
Small jumps/Big Jumps: Great for any sized jump.
Switch
It is quite directional and has 7mm of taper, so its never going to be amazing, but it's not ultra setback and transitions were nice and easy too.
Spins
Never going to be ideal for taking off and landing switch, but still very doable and otherwise works well for spins. It's light, has easy pop and not catchy on the setup.
Butters
You've got to put in a bit of effort to get the tail and nose pressing, but really not that much. It's pretty easy to press - and while the nose and the tail don't feel identical, they don't feel too much different either.
Score Breakdown and Final Verdict
Check out the breakdown of the score in the table below.
RATING | Contribution to Final Score | |
|---|---|---|
POWDER | 4.0 | 24/30 |
TURNS/SLASHING | 4.5 | 13.5/15 |
CARVING | 4.0 | 8/10 |
TREES/BUMPS | 4.5 | 13.5/15 |
CRUD/CHUNDER | 4.0 | 8/10 |
SPEED | 4.0 | 8/10 |
JUMPS | 4.0 | 4/5 |
SWITCH | 3.0 | 3/5 |
TOTAL after normalizing | 92.1/100 |
The Deep Thinker has no right being as easy as it is to turn, given how good it is on a carve - no right to be as good as it is at speed, given how well it rides slow - no right to be as good for riding switch, given how it floats in powder and no right to be as good at is it for jumps or butters, given how good it is for for freeride.
This is one of those boards that defies the odds at every corner. Could be a one-board quiver for a wide range of riders - or a great compliment in a quiver too.
It's a more snappy ride than it is a smooth one, so you'll have to like that feel of course, and whilst it's not overly chattery or anything it's not super damp. So for some riders looking for particular things out of there board, it may not be right for everyone, but this very quickly became one of my new favorite boards!
More Info, Current Prices and Where to Buy Online
If you want to learn more about the Deep Thinker, or if you are ready to buy, or if you just want to research prices and availability, check out the links below.
If you want to check out some other mellow freeride snowboard options, or if you want to compare how the Deep Thinker compares to other mellow freeride snowboards, then check out the next link.
Hi Nate,
Was considering this board for some time, and after reading your review decided to pull the trigger, but am a bit unsure on sizing. I’m about 6’2” and 180 lbs with size 11.5 boots.
I’m generally not a hard carver or speed demon and would use the board for tree riding out west, as well as groomers and some steeper terrain on pow days. Will a 157W be too small for me? Wondering if I should have gone for a 160W. For reference, I’m currently on a 159W Process camber, which has been ok but not the best in powder.
Hi Jason, thanks for your message.
I would put your “typical all-mountain” length at around 161, so I think the 160W would be the better all-round size for you. The 157W isn’t out of range, given you’re riding trees a fair bit, by the sounds of it and aren’t looking to ride too fast/aggressively. But it sounds like powder is the biggest consideration here, in terms of the 157W being too small. For everything else, I think you’d be fine with it. In terms of powder, the 160W will of course be better, but the 157W should still be a little better than the Process Flying V for powder, even with the 159W Process having a bit more surface area. The Deep Thinker is more directional and has rocker towards the nose.
So, if you’re fine with the increase in powder performance being smaller, then the 157W could work for sure, but if you wanted a bigger improvement for powder, then the 160W would be the better bet.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey Nate. Great review! I’ve had my eye on this board, I’m 6’1”, 195-200lbs, size 12 boot, advanced rider. I’m looking for all mountain, freeride board that can do pretty much anything except rails. I’m in Michigan with ice, hardpack, and a little powder now and then. I want to rip carves for once, try posi posi and something new. I’m riding a couple K2 boards from 2009-2010, one flat based 157 and rocker 156 for fun days. I’m looking at the DT in a 163W. Is there a better choice that doesn’t cost $700-900 or can this fit? Thanks!
Hi Jeremy, thanks for your message.
The DT would definitely be an option that would work well, IMO. If you wanted something with a little better icy edge hold, then the YES PYL and GNU Banked Country would be worth looking at. But the DT would be a good choice, IMO.
Hope this helps (if it didn’t come too late – have been hectic with gear testing the last little while – high quality problem to have!)
Hi Nate!
Thank you for your reviews, really like it!
Recently i got my 2024 Deep Thinker 160W and wrecked my Now Yes bindings, so now i’m in searching for a new bindings that will work great with Deep Thinker and my old Nitro Diablo 160.6. And i ride vans infuse boots in size 12
i’m 185cm hight and 80kg weight
I’ll be appreciate for your advice! Now i choosing from, and open to something else:
Rome Katana
Bataleon Astro
Union Atlas
Hi Aleks, thanks for your message.
The 3 you’ve mentioned would all work well with the Deep Thinker, IMO. If you do some freestyle stuff, then I’d be leaning Katana or Astro Asym, as they have better board feel, in my experience. But if not, the Atlas is also a great choice. And as far as the Astro goes, I would be looking at the Asymwrap version for the Deep Thinker. The Fullwrap would likely feel a little stiff, IMO. I’d throw the Union Falcor into the mix, especially if you’re doing freestyle stuff. And the Flux XF, CV, Burton Cartel X would all be worth looking at as well.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
I’m 5’4, 137 lbs, shoe size:US men 7.5. I’m looking to upgrade my board to something that can do well both in powder and groomers and is good at carving too (been riding Burton Instigator from 2020, binders: Malavita -M, boots: Burton Moto ). This season I’ve demoed Jones Mind Expander ( size 146) and Libtech Orca (size 147) couple of times and although i’ve come to prefer the Mind Expander over the Orca, after reading the reviews of Burton Deepthinker it feels more like a board that I’ve been searching for than the other two that I’ve demoed. But the smallest board size that Burton has for this board is 154. Do you think it would be a good fit for me given my specs?
Hi Grg, thanks for your message.
Unfortunately I think you’d find the 154 a bit too big. I wouldn’t go longer than around 150/151 with your specs, personally.
You could also look at:
– Capita Navigator (which comes in a 151 that is a narrower width, that could work well – or even the 147, if you’d prefer to go shorter).
– Burton Gril Master, which comes in a 150 and a 145.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate
I really appreciate the time you are putting into helping everyone with these tough choices.
The Deep Thinker seems to have everything I’m likring for in an all round board. The question is what length would be best for me? I am 71 kg (156 lbs) and 1.78m tall (5 ft 8) and with 40.5 boots (US 7.5). I have just sized down from 42s but now in a wider fit and my current board is a 158. I generally ride piste, looking to carve and cruise as well as powder when I can get it. No park or freestyle moves.
I’m trying to decide between the 154 and 157. Judging by your width recommendations the 154 is still a little on the wide side at 248 waist width with my small boots but I’m really seeing very few mens boards at 244 or under in any length. I’m thinking that the 157 at 252 wide would give better float in powder and
better carving stability but I could struggle with edge pressure.
Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Andrew, thanks for your message.
I would go 154, if it was me. I would put your “typical all-mountain” length at around 156 and while that’s closer to the 157, with your boot size, I’d err smaller rather than larger. The 157 would give you better float in powder, but I think the costs of getting that would be too much on the groomer. That size wouldn’t be wrong for you, as such, but I think the 154 would strike the better balance between piste and powder. And yeah, more stability for carving, but for your specs, I don’t think you’ll have issues with stability or float in powder on the 154. My instinct is that you’d sacrifice more in maneuverability and effort needed on the 157 than you would for powder and stability on the 154.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate
Many thanks for taking the time and for your clear guidance.
In the meantime I came to a similar conclusion myself and ordered the 154. It’s very reassuring, as well as quite some relief, to hear your views and hopefully it will be a perfect fit for me.
Once again thanks and keep up the great work!
Best regards
Andrew
You’re very welcome Andrew. Hope it treats you well and hope you have a great season! If you think of it at the time, let me know how you get on, once you’ve had a chance to get it out on snow.
I have 2 questions, one for my son, one for myself.
Son, 19 yrs old, 1,86m/6,10ft, 76kg/167lbs, size 45/US 10,5, currently 4 yrs old Skeleton Key 154, he outgrew this board. Looking for a new board: he likes speed, carving on groomers, and powder when there is powder, no park etc, resort 1/year. Burton lacks some grip on ice, but the DT has improved, I understood. But hard snow/ice grip is important.
What would you recommend: Deep Thinker 157W? Yess PYL Uninc 157 or 159? Other suggestions maybe? Gnu Banked Country maybe?
For me, 56yrs old, 1,67m/5,5ft, 72kg/159lbs, size 40/UK7/US7 (EST, Step On Reflex Small, Photon): currently 156 Flight Attendant, and a progessively bad lower back, that’s why I choose Step Ons:
My lovely Flight Attendant 156 is a bit on the longer side (hard work, which my back doesn’t like anymore), but 152 I found too short, it’s 7 years old now. I also like speed, carving, powder when there is powder: what do you think about a Deep Thinker 154 for me? Other Burton recommendations?
Hi Marc, thanks for your message.
Son
Firstly, in terms of sizing, I would put your son’s “typical all-mountain length” at around 159/160 and whether to go wide with 10.5s will depend on the board. If you could let me know the brand/model of his boots as well, that would be great. Note that this is going off the 1.86m, which I’m guessing you meant to translate to 6’1″, rather then 6’10” – but if he is actually 6’10, let me know and we might have to reassess the sizing.
I would say the Deep Thinker is decent in icy conditions, but if you wanted that even better, then going PYL Uninc or GNU Banked Country would be safer bets, IMO.
My instinct is that he could find the PYL Uninc a bit stiff, especially coming from the SK. If he’s really strong/athletic, then it would be fine. But if he’s fairly normal in that sense, then I’d be erring towards the PYL regular over the Uninc version. The PYL regular would be a really good match for him as well, IMO, looking at what he likes to do when riding. Another I’d look at is the Never Summer Valhalla. While I’d say it’s not quite at the PYL/Banked Country level in terms of icy edge-hold, it’s a little better than the DT, IMO. So, I would look at the following size-wise:
Deep Thinker: 160 (the 160 is wide enough for 10.5s, IMO and I think that length would be a better bet in the medium to long term.
Banked Country: 160W (I like the idea of the 159 for him, but it’s pushing it width-wise, IMO)
PYL: 160W (again 159 probably too narrow)
Valhalla: 160 (this is wide enough for 10.5s, IMO)
PYL Uninc: As it’s a bit wider than the others and stiffer, if you wanted to mellow out the stiffness just a little, then I’d look at the 159W
These sizes are a jump from the 154 SK, but for his specs, I think they’d work well and I’m guessing it’s likely he will add a bit of weight to his frame in the next few years. Also this is assuming his feet have finished growing.
You
Firstly, in terms of sizing, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 155. But with your boot size and the fact your finding the 156 FA a bit long and your lower back stuff, I would go a bit shorter than that.
I do like the 154 DT for you. It’s a much lighter board than the FA (last FA I weighed was 3020g for the 159 (18.99grams/cm) vs the last Deep Thinker I weight at 2780grams for the 157 – which is 17.71 grams/cm – and trust me you notice that weight difference!) and taking off that little bit of length should make it easier on the body to manage. Some other Burton options I would consider would be the Gril Master and Alekesam.
Gril Master: Even lighter and more easy to ride than the DT, but you would take a hit in terms of carving and speed vs the DT, but a little better powder performance. Softer flexing than DT (I felt it at a 5.5/10 in the 155). 2,580grams for the 155 (16.65 g/cm).
Hope this helps with your decisions
Alekesam: Again lighter, but I would say a little more technical to ride vs the DT and a little stiffer than the DT (I felt it at a 7/10 flex for the 156). 2640grams for the 156 (16.92g/cm)
Hi Nate,
Thanks for your content and review!
I’m looking at Deep Thinker as my “backup” board. Right now I’m riding Flight Attendant 162 and I love it. I don’t ride in the park much except for some jumps and mostly ride on groomers. Based on the review it seems that DT would be a good backup and checks all the boxes.
Which size do you think I should get? 160, 160w or 163w?
I’m 186 cm
Weight: 100 kg
The boot size is 10.5 US (step ons if that matters).
Thank you!
Hi Artem, thanks for your message.
I would out your “typical all-mountain length” at around 163, but with your boot size, I wouldn’t go wide at that length. The 160 is probably getting a bit small – and would, IMO, feel smaller than your 162 FA. The 160W I think is the best bet. While you don’t need to go wide necessarily, the 160W will add a bit of size to make it feel closer to the 162 FA and it’s not like it’s super wide for you or anything and I’ve heard from most (and it makes sense) that bigger guys don’t tend to feel wide boards make turning harder/slower – or at least don’t notice it nearly as much as smaller/lighter guys. So I don’t think the width will be an issue for you and I think adding that little bit of width will be better size-wise than going regular 160. The 163W is a possibility, but it will, IMO, feel bigger than your current board, because of that extra width mostly.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thank you very much, this is a very detailed response and it helped a lot! I will go with 160w
You’re very welcome Artem.
Hi Nate,
I cannot decide what size should I choose. My specs 184 cm, 100kg, us12. 60w orv63w? Thanks!
Hi Kamil, thanks for your message.
I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 163 and with 12s you definitely want to go wide for this board. So, I think the 163W is right on. The 160W wouldn’t be wrong and if you were looking to prioritize maneuverability over stability (e.g. if you rode trees a lot and didn’t really bomb groomers that often) and don’t see regular deeper powder. The 163W will float better in powder for you, but the 160W would be fine if it’s not too deep.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey great review! Im 6′ 165lbs size 9 boot. Thinking about adding this to my quiver in 157. i currently own a yes dicey 154(park only), ride shadowban 157(daily), yes standard uninc 156(aggressive days). i love the uninc but its tiring after a few hours because its a bit hard to turn because of the width but i do love how it feels vs my shadowban which turns faster but isnt as stable/damp.
Im looking for something directional, pretty damp, and stable that turns fast. Something i could ride for 8 hours. I mainly like groomers, going fast, carving, cruising, not really a park guy. Would this board be good for me or any other recommendations? also will you review the shadowban at any point?
Hi Meddy, thanks for your message (and apologies for the delay in response – still catching up trying to get reviews etc published!)
Deep Thinker definitely a board that shouldn’t tire you too much. It’s light and quick turning. The only thing I think you may not get what you want in it is the dampness. It’s not super chattery or anything, but it’s also not super damp. I’d similar in terms of dampness to the Shadowban. I rode the 2025 shadowban last winter and will have a review for it soon.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Looking for a one board quiver killer that can work for me.
I rode a custom last year that was a bit small for me (158). And I’ve ridden a Rossi One LF (161W) that I thought was a bit too much rocker, was heavy, and was a bit twitchy at high speeds.
I ride larger mountains, hit a box once a week, don’t really jump that much and nothing in the park. Not really into the trees either.
I mainly ride with skiers, so I need something that can go fast, hold an edge, handle steep terrain, and tackle a few mogul runs a day, but is still something that I can play around on and do 180s or little jumps.
Looking for something that can handle a wide variety of snow types and speeds.
I’m looking at:
Burton Custom 162W
Hometown Hero 160W
Deep Thinker 160W
My Stats:
6’ Tall
200 Lbs
Size 11 Boots
Which of those boards would you recommend?
Thanks in advance!
Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for your message.
Given you mentioned the Rossi One felt heavy and assuming you didn’t like that, then I would go either Custom 162W or Deep Thinker 160W (both are nice and light – the Hometown Hero feels heavier). If you don’t ride powder often or at all, then I’d be leaning Custom 162W. If you do see some powder and want some powder performance, then I would go Deep Thinker 160W.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Awesome. Thanks Nate! Really enjoying all the new content you’re putting up. Have a great winter!
You’re very welcome Dave. Thanks for visiting and hope you have a great winter too!
Hi Nate, thanks for your reviews and all these answers it’s so helpful.
I’m a high intermediate to advanced rider planning to stop renting and buy for the first time. I am size 9 boots and thinking either Photon or Ion, cartel X bindings size M and the deep thinker (probably 154). I am 70kg, 5’10 and I usually board in Japan. I love off piste pow, side hits and fast carving groomers when there’s no fresh snow. I’ve hired the Jones mountain twin 157 and salomon assassin 153 and really enjoyed these boards.
The 2024 deep thinker sounds perfect to me but i’m curious if you’ve heard anything about or ridden the 2025 version? The 2025 is on sale in my area but i can’t find the 2024 so i am wondering if there are changes.
Also your thoughts on the best size for me and best boots (Photon or Ion) would be greatly appreciated.
Again thank you so much your website has been so helpful
Hi Ethan, thanks for your message.
I think the Deep Thinker would suit what you’re looking for really well. The 2025 model is identical (apart from graphic) to the 2024 model as far as I know.
Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 155, so I think the 154 would be just right. You could go 157 too, if you wanted to get more float and stability at speed, but it would mean it would feel a little stiffer and not be as fun for trees and sidehits. The 157 wouldn’t be wrong though, but I’d be leaning 154.
Both the Ion and Photon would work with the Deep Thinker/ Cartel X. With the Ion giving more support and drive for carves and high speed riding and the Photon going to be better for ollies, side-hits, trees etc, IMO. Personally I would go Photon, as they are the slightly better flex match, IMO, and should still give plenty of support and carving response with the Deep Thinker and for your physical specs. But if you really want to maximize that stability/carving, then you could certainly go Ion.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hello Nate,
This was a very good review that made me buy the board but a bit conflicted between choosing the correct combination for the board.
My question is:
1: I have bought the deep thinker 157w with BURTON Malavita EST Large Bindings and was wondering if the Burton ions or the Burton photons are better ( and if the price difference is wroth it)?
2: or if another brand such as Nidecker Rift are better suited or if you have other recommended boots.
I am a size 11 us boots
Thank you
Hi Adam, thanks for your message.
I would personally ride it with the Photon’s over the Ion. Not that they’re a better boot than the Ion, but they are a better flex match to the board, IMO. That said, you could still ride it with the Ion, if you want to get more response out of it, at the expense of a little forgiveness, ease of riding at slower speeds and more effort to generate pop for ollies, etc. Depending on how you ride, the Ion’s could work, but I’d go Photon. The Ion’s are likely to last longer, but the Photon, IMO, are a better match to this particular board.
The Rift would work but a little on the softer side for it, but certainly doable. The Photon are kind of the in between of those two boots and I think they would be the better overall balance for it, but the other two are doable for sure. Also, if there’s one of the 3 that were to fit you noticeably better than the others, then that would be the first thing to consider, IMO. But assuming they all fit you similarly (which they do for me), I’d be leaning Photon, in this case.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thank you for the quick and great response.
This really helped me decide on the boots as I will be going for the photons as I also found a good deal on them.
Have a great day.
You’re very welcome Adam. Hope you have a great day too and hope the boots treat you well!
Hey Nate,
Thinking of picking up this board in a 157 but I am torn. Stats 185lbs , 9.5 boot, intermediate rider that typically rides groomers, tree, and my go to spots are any bowls.
Where would you put this against the GNU Hyper 157 or Lib Rig 156 or even the new ride moderator (not sure if you have demoed this or not. Lets throw the hometown hero into the mix too.
Cheers,
Mike
Hi Mike, thanks for message. And apologies for the slow response (generally running behind, life/family and computer issues all contributing!)
Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 160, so while 157 is a bit down from that, it’s not tiny for you or anything. You’re stats are very similar to mine and I tend to ride more around 157-159 for this type of board.
Vs the Hyper 157 and Lib Rig, this will be a touch stiffer and overall more aggressive than the Hyper, but a little softer than the Lib Rig.
It’s also what I would call snappier than the Lib Rig, which is more damp/smooth. On the Lib Rig, you’d feel quite a bit less chatter and get a smooth, consistent turn. The Deep Thinker will feel more chatter, but has a springier, poppier feel and takes a bit less effort to get it to rip.
Vs the Hyper, that chatter is similar, in my experience, but the Hyper has more of a surfy, looser kind of feel, rather than being more “carvy” like the Deep Thinker is. But it’s snappier/poppier than the Lib Rig. But won’t handle chatter as the Lib Rig and not as stable at speed. I’d put the Deep Thinker as being more stable at speed vs the Hyper too.
The Deep Thinker is lighter than the other 2, with the Lib Rig being the heaviest, in my experience.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hi Nate. I have to say this is great review on the Burton Deep Thinker. I am serious about getting this board. I am checking out the Burton Hometown Hero in the Family Tree. I am upgrading my collection of board’s and also checking out the Ride Algorythem and Shadowban. I currently have a Burton Flight Attendant from 2017 and a Ride Berserker from 2012. I have been hearing a lot of people saying the Deep Thinker is an awesome board. Thanks for the great review!
Hey Robert
You’re very welcome. If you’re after a lighter/snappier board, then the Deep Thinker is the way to go from them, IMO. But if you want a damper, heavier feel, then the Algorhythm or the Hometown Hero would give you more of that feel. The Shadowban still a little damper than the Deep Thinker I would say, but not as damp as the Algo and a little softer than Algo.
This fall I am thinking of getting two boards could be both the Algorythem and the Deep Thinker. Would test ride them at Demo days or at the Demo center.
Hi Robert. Yeah, if you’re able to test ride them, that’s ideal.
Reply to Deep Thinker. Like you mentioned about size on the Deep Thinker a 157cm looks good. Should I consider a 157W or 160cm?? I talked to somebody at a shop at Stratton Mountain in VT and suggested going a 157W or 160 for deep carving performance. I figured I would weigh that option. Seeing either the Deep Thinker or Passport would be a good combination with my new Ride Smokescreen.
Hi Robert
For your specs, I would go 160 for the Deep Thinker. I think that length would be better for you for you and should be well wide enough for deep carves, without having to go wide. I would go 160 over 157W for you, for sure.
Hello Nate,
First congrats for this nice website and how attencious you are to everybody.
So, where I live we don’t have any snow, I Live in Brasil. But in the last 15 years I went snowboarding for at least 10 days every year to some resort, west coast, Europe and south america.
In all theese years I had just 2 boards…
a Rome machine 161W (I have a feeling that takes more effort to curve, but gives me more stability outside the groomed terrain)
and a Sierra Reverse Crew (I love this one), so easy to ride, the one I’m using in the last 10 years
But now I think it’s time for a new snowboard. (finally)
I want something to ride powder, groomed and hard snow.
I don’t do park and I don’t jump anymore, I’m getting old and scared.
But I still like to go really fast
I’m 187cm (6’13), 89kg (196lb) and boots 11
My binding is a burton step on
I was going for a flight attendant 162 but It was not avaiable anymore, so I thinked about this Deep Thinker 160
Do you think is good choice for me? I’m looking for a board that will make me feel more stable at high speeds and I confortable to make curves.
Something that could elevate my riding in terms of speed, confort and stability.
Thank you very much and congrats again
Hi TPetri, thanks for your message.
The Deep Thinker could work, but I think the Flight Attendant would be a better bet for what you’re looking for. The Deep Thinker is good at speed, but it’s not as damp and stable as the Flight Attendant, in my experience. It’s lighter and snappier, but that, as is typical, makes it less damp. Size-wise, I like something around 162 for your specs and how you describe your riding. The 160 wouldn’t be wrong, but I think you’d prefer the Flight Attendant in 162 for what you’re describing. It sounds like you don’t have that available though.
If you’re looking predominantly at Burton, I would also look into the Straight Chuter and the Alexesam (new for ’25 but I think they had a limited release for this year’s model). If you’re open to look at other brands, let me know what you have available and I can suggest some options.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey Nate, thanks for your reviews as always!
I’m 5″10, 160-170 lbs, size 9
My current quiver is:
Huck Knife (153) – Park
Greats (154) – All mountain
Orca (150) – POW/Trees
I live on the East Coast so I don’t get many POW days. I have however gone out west to BC and Banff. Anytime I use the Orca I get terrible pain in the soles of my feet by the end of the day. I think it has to do with the stiffness of the board, lack of torsional flex and the width. I also train legs in the off-season so I don’t think it’s a strength issue.
Was looking at swapping the Orca for a DT. I am drawn to how light it is, the full camber and the POP. I got the HK this year and before that, I had no idea how much a board could affect pop. It blows the Greats and Orca out of the water in that department. I know this board has a ton of pop.
Curious to hearing your thoughts on whether that would be a good move? Would it work with my quiver?
Also, what size would you get?
I’m stuck between the 154 and 157. I like the waist width and effective edge of the 157 but I’m worried as my tree board, that would be too long for me. I generally stick to 154 or shorter for boards. I know the added effective edge would help as an all mountain board but I currently have the greats to fill that hole for me. Personally I’m leaning towards the 154 for my current quiver.
Thanks
Hey Mark, thanks for your message.
I think the Deep Thinker would make sense in your quiver, as a replacement for the Orca as your POW/Tree board. It would pair nicely with the Greats and Huck Knife, IMO. It’s not going to have the same icy edge hold as the Orca, in my opinion, but you have the Greats for icy days.
Size-wise I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 157/158, but if you have a preference for shorter boards, then the 154 certainly isn’t out of range or anything. Probably less float than the Orca in powder too, but better for powder float than the Greats and Huck Knife. Even with the Greats being a bit wider, the 154 Deep Thinker will still float better in powder than it, IMO. You should be fine with the width of the 154, IMO.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey Nate,
Just a follow up I ended up getting last year’s DT a month ago on sale and went 154 as discussed.
I see that you have come around on the Orca recently and have bumped it into your top 10 for mellow free ride. Based on your reviews, I see the Orca is a tad better in powder but you had the DT ranked higher in a few areas and overall.
Do you see any reason to keep both the Orca (150) and the DT? I now have all four boards (Huck Knife, Greats, DT and Orca). I would ideally prefer to get rid of one but don’t necessarily need to. But I live on the East Coast so I don’t get much powder. My powder/tree board would most likely only be used during trips. So just for storage purposes and maintenance reasons, I prefer to downsize the quiver. But would keep both if there was some practical reason for doing so.
Thanks!
Hi Mark, thanks for the update.
I mean you could keep the Orca, and it is going to be a little better for powder/trees, IMO (which as you rightly pointed out has changed on the Orca since riding it), but for the sake of keeping your quiver more minimal, I don’t think you need both boards in your quiver. I also wouldn’t say its redundant. If it was easy enough to keep both (i.e. if you had good powder nearby that you regularly frequented) then there would be days where the Orca might serve you a little better. But the DT will still serve you really well for those tree/powder days, so it’s not a necessity to also have the Orca in there, IMO.
Hi Nate! I’m 5’9″, weigh 155 lbs and wear US 8.5 boots. I am an advanced rider who likes to carve on groomers at speed, ride tree lines on pow days and pop off side-hits. I also try to ride pow-rich backcountry steeps here and there (Gulmarg, Himalayas). Currently, I have a Ride Berzerker (156), Salomon Dancehaul (147), Wired Devun Walsh (153), K2 Raygun (160W), and Rossignol Sashimi (152). I ride Dancehaul on most days and plan to get rid of my other boards. I would like to get a board that pairs well with (or even replaces) the Dancehaul, and I have narrowed down to Burton Deep Thinker (154) and K2 passport. I want a poppy and nimble board that I can ride at high speed. I saw that you have not reviewed K2 Passport (154) but recently bought it. While I eagerly await your review on it, may I know how it compares to the Deep Thinker? Which one would you recommend for me? Thanks in advance!
Hi B, thanks for your message.
I have the Passport in 160 and the Deep Thinker in 157 (and I rode the Deep Thinker right after the Passport, as well as comparing it to my control board). I think both would definitely work for what you’re describing, with the main things being:
– In the 160 the Passport feels about the same stiffness as the Deep Thinker, but would feel a little softer size-for-size
– The Passport was a little more easy going, easier to turn.
– The Passport felt quite a bit heavier than the Deep Thinker – and more so than the extra length would account for. This had the advantage of making it better in messy snow – though the size would have also helped with that.
– The Deep Thinker is easier and quicker to whip around – part of that down to its weight and being shorter, but size not enough to explain all of the difference here
– Noticeably more pop and snap in the Deep Thinker and definitely preferred it for jumps and side hits.
– For carving it was pretty close. I think overall I still prefer the Deep Thinker, but when in messier snow conditions, the Passport was a little better on a carve. Otherwise, though I would pick Deep Thinker for carving.
So, for Pop it’s Deep Thinker hands down for me – and with it being nice and light, you get full value for the pop too. In terms of nimbleness I found the Deep Thinker more nimble and more so than the size would account for, but size-for-size they would be fairly similar in that respect. But I would still give it to the Deep Thinker. For stability at speed they were really similar on smoother groomers and I would say the Deep Thinker, in the same size, would be a little better on smooth groomers. But the Passport a little better when it came to messier snow – again that extra weight helps there.
I agree that 154 for either one would be a good bet, size-wise.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hi Nate,
I really appreciate your detailed response. You gave me all the information I needed to make the final decision. I ordered the deep thinker! 🙂
Once again, thanks a bunch!
You’re very welcome B. Hope it treats you well. Happy riding!
Hi Nate,
I have a Burton Custom Flying V 156 and it’snt good for carving or speed and Uneven Terrain, at the and of the turn the tail scapes… a friend recommended me the Deep Thinker 157 but i heard good thinks about Bataleon Party Wave pluss 151. Which one can you recommend?
Hi Gustavo
I’m a big fan of the Deep Thinker (and ended up buying one for my personal collection). If it suits your riding style, it’s a good bet, IMO. We haven’t tested the Party Wave Plus (just the regular Party Wave), and really liked it but would still prefer the Deep Thinker over it. But if you wanted something softer, more playful, then it could be an option. The Plus version should be stiffer and less playful though, but can’t say for sure how it compares to either the regular Party Wave or the Deep Thinker, unfortunately.
Thanks Nate! I think the Deep Thinker will be better because i prefer something stiffer, fast, i dont like park, jump, switch…
You’re very welcome Gustavo. Happy riding!
Hi Nate,
I really appreciate your answers here!
Currently, I have a Lib Tech Rasman C2 161cm, Thirty Two TM-2 size 12 US, and Clew bindings. I’m 190cm tall and weigh 88kg. I think my skill level is something below intermediate, and I mostly ride resort slopes. However, I want to start riding some freeride and need a new board that will allow me to continue riding resort slopes confidently and handle powder.
I really like your review of this board and want to get one, but I’m struggling with sizing. I was thinking about 160, but the Burton site recommends 157W, which is out of stock. So, I wanted to ask if 160 would fit well for my parameters, or if I should choose another size?
Also, without considering this board, which ones would you recommend I look at for my purposes? (ride resort slopes and freeride)
Hi Roman
Thanks for your message.
Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 162, so I think the 160W would be the better bet. As a lower intermediate rider, sizing down a little makes sense, but I wouldn’t size down to the 157W for your purposes.
However, as a lower intermediate rider, there are probably better resort/freeride options that would be a little easier to progress on. Some options include:
– Jones Mind Expander
– Capita Navigator
– GNU Hyper
– Salomon Dancehaul
The Deep Thinker is still more mellow than the average freeride board, in my experience, but I think still quite challenging for lower intermediate level.
Hope this helps with your decision
Dear Nate,
Thank you very much for the effort you put into your reviews! I have been happily reading through them alongside the TOP Pick lists for the past evenings. I rode Burton and Nitro boards in my youth but didn’t engage in any winter sports until my mid-30s. Now, with my kids starting skiing lessons, I’ve picked up snowboarding again with great joy!
After a few seasons on rental boards, I’m about to buy myself a snowboard but feel lost with all the options. I primarily ride groomers, occasionally venturing into powder when available. I appreciate a good carve but also nimble turning on crowded blue runs when following my kids (and avoiding collisions with others). I like feeling comfortable when bombing down the slope and having good grip in icy conditions. I also feel like trying buttering someday. Park/jump/pipes are not my thing. I only get about 6-7 days per year to ride the board, so having a fun time going down the slope is my main goal.
I’m 6’2” tall, weigh 180lbs, and wear US11 boots (Nitro Rival TLS). I have a regular stance of 21°/0° with a 56cm stance width. I consider myself at an intermediate skill level.
My last rental board was a Salomon Super 8 163cm. It behaved pretty much as you described it in your review. The edges were a little worn out, so grip was not the best. It did everything I asked for somewhat OK, but it wasn’t exactly a joy to ride. The Salomon board I had the previous year was a 160cm wide one, much more agile, and just as good with speed as the 163. I can’t remember exactly which one it was, but it certainly wasn’t a Super 8.
After reading the Snowboard guide and recommended lists, I was thinking an all-mountain board would be right for me, like the YES Standard or the JONES MOUNTAIN TWIN. However, I am leaning towards “short and wide” freeride boards like the Burton Deep Thinker 157W. I know it’s quite short for my height, but being tall with large feet, combined with low body weight isn’t ideal for choosing a snowboard…
I quite liked how you described the Deep Thinker in the review. At the moment, this is at the top of my list.
What do you think about sizing, and what board do you have in mind after reading all this… 🙂
Your advice means a lot to me!
Greetings,
Michael
Hi Michael
Thanks for your message.
I would put your “typical all-mountain length at around 161, so the 157 is short for your specs. However, it’s nothing outrageously short or anything. And while it’s certainly not too wide for your boots, it’s on the wider end of an ideal range, so sizing down a little bit makes sense. Sizing down a little bit more again to increase the agility, to something like 157W is nothing too crazy, IMO. From what you’re describing, I think it’s a board that could work well for you.
All-Mountain options like the Standard and Mountain Twin would certainly work too, but if you’ve got your eye on the Deep Thinker and that’s exciting you, then I think that would be something that would suit your riding style, so would be a good bet.
Hope this helps with your decision
Dear Nate,
Thank you very much for your thoughts! The 157 seems to be sold out, at least in all the places I have access to. However, my local snowboard dealer had one DT in stock, a 160 wide. So I went with that.
I’m excited to give it a try.
Thanks again,
Michael
You’re very welcome Michael. Hope it treats you well! If you think of it at the time, let me know how you get on, once you’ve had a chance to get it out on snow.
Hi Nate, awesome review, just had a few days on my new Deep Thinker. I am on a 160w at 110kg, size 12 US boots in size L step ons Re:Flex mounted on the centerline of the base plate for the channel. Riding a zero and plus angles just a tad wider than reference stance. I have been boarding for 20 years but intermidiate all mountain level I guess. boots and bindings are old, board is new. Coming off of a Bateleon whatever 161W
Really struggling with catchness getting on to heel edge. Ate shit a fair bit both on groomerd and in wet powder. I didn’t really see the great things others do in the board
Have cranked up the forward lean which helped but also made it twitchy at slow speed and cramps on the cat track
Considering using the set back bolt holes on discs to take me towards heel edge so I can ride with less forward lean. I don’t have the board here as left out in France so can’t see how off centre that puts my boots (also never used channel before) . So the question is, will this fix it or just admit defeat now and take a different board out with me?
Hi Ross
Thanks for your message.
A couple of things. Firstly, the Bataleon Whatever is a very catch free board and you can get away with a lot on it in terms of your technique and slashing around and skidding turns. I really like Bataleon boards, but you can ride them differently. It takes some adjustment to ride them to their full capabilities. After making that adjustment they are really fun, I find. But it’s true in the reverse as well. When you’re coming from a Bataleon board (or anything with lifted edges) you need to make an adjustment to flat base boards again. So, that might be part of it, that you just need to make some adjustments to your turning technique.
But also it is a predominantly camber board and there’s no rocker in the tail, so that does often become catchy. I didn’t find it with the Deep Thinker compared to other camber dominant boards. But I am testing a lot of different boards all the time, so I am probably quicker to adjust to different feeling boards.
It’s perfectly understandable that you may not want to make any adjustments and just want a board that feels good as soon as you get on it, the way you naturally want to ride it. That’s fully legit and I definitely get that, especially if you don’t get to ride that often and/or it’s a big effort/cost to get to a ski resort.
So, if that’s the case, I see a couple of options.
a. you could try detuning the edges at the contact points. This usually takes away any catchiness. It can also reduce edge-hold in hard/icy conditions, but it should make the board less catchy, for sure. And/or:
b. you could try getting a base grind. A lot of boards these days come with a structured base, which can be great for glide, particularly in powder, but can also make slashing turns harder. I noticed a bit of a pattern on the base of the Deep Thinker, so it may have some kind of structure. Run your fingers across the width of the board on the base (from edge to edge) and feel for a textured feel, rather than just being smooth. On boards with really obvious deep texture, you can make quite a loud sound running over the grooves with your finger nail – and you can also hear it quite obviously on snow when skidding turns. The Deep Thinker didn’t have anything that pronounced/obvious but I detected some subtle texture in its base.
OR
c. you could look for a different board. Particularly if you want to be able to ride it like your Bataleon Whatever, then something with a shaped base would be a good idea. What was the reason for changing your Whatever? Did you want something stiffer/more stable than the Whatever? Something more directional? Or was your Whatever in need of replacement because of damage/wear and tear? Or you just wanted to try something different?
There are plenty of options with curved bases and I would be happy to give some suggestions, if you’d like. If you can just let me know how you like to ride (e.g. fast, moderate, any tricks? trees? powder? – basically anything you can tell me about how you like to ride) and also your height (while weight and boot size are the most important things for sizing, I still like to take height into account) for sizing purposes. That’s if you think you’d like to replace the Deep Thinker. But you definitely shouldn’t have to crank your forward lean to a level that you don’t like or aren’t comfortable with and shouldn’t have to uncenter your boots – not even sure that would help that much, either.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate!
Love the review, thank you!
Im 5’11” 190lbs. My spec is ION 10,5 size and Cartel X EST M with angles somethink like +21\-9 or +24\-6. I think i’m intermediate who loves high speed and learning carves, swich and not deep powder.
Would the 157W be the right sizing for me or i need 160W ?
Hi Despik
Thanks for your message. I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 160, so while you certainly could go with the 157 or 157W, I think the 160 would be the better bet, especially give that you like to ride fast. But I don’t think you need to go 160W. The 160 should be wide enough for your boots. The 160 should be around 268mm at the back insert and Ions are pretty low profile. Even at a 0 degree back binding angle, I would be confident with 10.5s on the 160. With 6 to 9 degrees, I think you’ll be fine. If you’re really worried and have had boot drag before, you could go 160W, but I would be leaning 157W if you were going to go wide. But I would go 160 if it was me.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate, I really enjoyed reading your review!
I was hoping you could give me some advice regarding board size. Im size 11 5’10 170lbs and Im looking to get the deep thinker with size L Cartel X bindings. Please let me know your thoughts
Thanks,
Andrew
Hi Andrew
Thanks for your message.
I think the 157W would be your best bet. If you wanted to try to get on a regular width, there’s some opportunity with this board, particularly if you increased the length to 160. You’d some things in your favor – e.g. binding angles, lower profile boots etc, but it’s possible, if you wanted to try to get on the regular width. If you could let me know your typical binding angles, stance width and the brand/model of your boots and also how deep you like to carve, that will help.
But the 157W would be a good bet, if you weren’t concerned about trying to go regular width.
The Cartel X are a good match for this board, IMO.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate, great review!
I was wondering if you recommend a wide board for me as im 178cm and size 11 boot. Im thinking about purchasing the deep thinker along with cartel x bindings. What are your thoughts?
Hey Mike
Thanks for your message. Firstly, the Cartel X are a great match for the Deep Thinker, IMO.
In terms of whether you need to go wide or not, will depend on a couple of things.
1. What brand/model of boots do you have. Some are more low profile than others.
2. What binding angles are you likely to be using? Or would you like the option to experiment and could potentially end up using a -6 to +6 back binding angle on it?
3. What stance width are you likely to be using?
4. How deep do you like to (or want to be able to) carve? Like really deep/aggressive (e.g. eurocarving) or more moderate?
5. Would also somewhat depend on the length you were looking at, as well as the other factors. I’m happy to give my opinion on your best length, but would also need your weight. While I do take height into account as well, weight is the more significant factor in length sizing, IMO.
Hope this helps. Let me know what you can to those 5 things and should be able to give you an estimation as to whether I think it would be fine or risky to go with a regular width.
Hi Nate, I really enjoyed reading your review and found it extremely detailed and professional. What board size do you recommend? Im 5’10 170 lbs and a size US 11 boot size. I’m thinking about getting ion boots, a 157W Deep thinker, and the Free Thinker in the same size. Do you recommend I go with a wide board or regular for either one?
Hi Andrew
Thanks for your message.
I think 157W for each would be a good size. Ideally in a quiver you might go with a slightly bigger board for your more freeride oriented board and slightly smaller for your freestyle oriented board, but there aren’t wide sizes lower than 157 for these boards.
That said, you could probably get on the 160 Deep Thinker, if you wanted to size up for that. It’s borderline too narrow, but depending on a few things could be doable. If you have lower profile boots, then I think you could get away with it depending on binding angles and how deeply you like to carve. If you can let me know your boot size, binding angles and how deep you carve, that would be great.
For the Free Thinker, I wouldn’t go longer than 157. The regular width is also an outside chance, again depending on the things mentioned above. If you were to ride the 157 Free Thinker with +15/-15 binding angles or similar and had low profile boots, then I think you’d get away with it.
I think a Deep Thinker 160 and Free Thinker 157 would make a really good quiver, but will depend on a few factors as to whether you could fit on them width-wise.
Hope this helps
Nice review. I am thinking deep thinker or gril master. How are they different? Different enough to get both?
Hey Joshua
Thanks for your message.
We haven’t tested the Gril Master, unfortunately, so can’t say from direct experience. But on paper I would say they are probably too similar to get both.
The Gril Master has more taper and is wider. The Deep Thinker has more effective edge vs overall length. While both are what I would consider freeride boards, the Gril Master is a little more up the freeride spectrum, with the Deep Thinker, being freeride that’s closer to the all-mountain end of the spectrum. But they look more similar than they are different, IMO, so I wouldn’t personally have both in a quiver.
Hope this helps
Hello Nate,
Thank you for this very complete review.
The new Deep thinker seems to be less demanding, so I’m now considering this board, which I didn’t consider before.
I’m used to more freestyle boards (Yes Dicey 154, for the last 3 seasons) and I’d like something more all-mountain, for crusing, have fun on a few slopesides but above all to enjoy the trees/powder as soon as it’s there.
I’m riding more and more with my young daughter, so the pace is cooler too.
A high speed board isn’t necessary so.
I don’t want something too physically demanding/catchy, but I like to have pop and a good reactivity when I want it.
I was originally thinking of the Warpig/Psychocandy, because I hear a lot of good feedback on those boards.
But your reviews of the new Deep Thinker and the Skeleton Key make me hesitate.
What would you recommend?
I’m 5’8 and 154 lbs, size 8,5us (Burton Swath)
Many thanks,
Best,
Hi TR
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, Deep Thinker has definitely mellowed out compared to previous years. The Skeleton Key is also pretty easy going for a predominantly camber board. I’m partial to the Deep Thinker because a lighter, snappier feel. Some do prefer a smoother, damper feel – and the Skeleton Key is a little damper and smoother.
Both would work for sure, but I’d personally be leaning Deep Thinker.
Size-wise, I would put your typical all-mountain length at around 155. For the Deep Thinker I think the 154 would be just right. For the Skeleton Key the 154 would also work, but it’s quite a bit wider, so length/width combo makes it on the bigger side for you, IMO. You could size down the 150 on the Skeleton Key, because of that width, and that would work, and if you really wanted to go Skeleton Key, that’s what I’d be leaning towards. But I think it’s getting a little on the shorter side for you, and I’d be more inclined to keep a bit more length but narrower, to better suit your foot size.
The Dicey is quite a wide board for your boot size too, IMO. While the waist width doesn’t make it look overly wide, the insert width is wider than the waist width makes it look – as are the tip/tail widths.
So, yeah, long story short, I would be leaning Deep Thinker 154.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate!
Congrats for the amazing and full spec gear reviews.
Im between 3 snowboards , Deep thinker – Free Thinker & lib tech orca.
Whats your opinion!
Thanks
Hi Paris
Thanks for your message.
Depends on how/where you ride. If you could tell me more about how you like to ride, that would be great. e.g. trees? powder? high speeds or more moderate? side-hits/drops? park jumps? boxes/rails? icy conditions often or not? Deep powder often or not? Anything you can tell me about your riding would help.
Happy to give my sizing opinion too, if you want one. Would just need your height, weight and boot size (as well as how you like to ride, but asking for that anyway).
Yes of course,
I usually ride piste (full season) / off piste-trees the days we have powder (so we dont go at piste too much) / drops / and sometime i use to go to the park hitting jumps and some boxes (rails not to much) the days that is too icy or not have good snow.
High speed is not the 1st thing.
Now im using (a 10yr old – the last burton hate) 155 / boot 44 / im 173 tall – and 82kg.
Thanks again.
And also i use burton ion boots boa*
Hi Paris
Thanks for the extra info.
I wouldn’t go Free Thinker, since you like to get in powder, when you have it. It’s not great for powder. It is the best in the park, but from what you’re describing, you don’t need to optimize it for the park – you need a bit more powder performance.
The Orca is the best in powder of the 3, but it lacks the versatility of the Deep Thinker, IMO.
IMO the Deep Thinker is as good as the Orca (if not a touch better) for carving and in terms of stability at speed, but it’s much better in terms of maneuverability and for jumps, ollies, side-hits and boxes vs the Orca. It’s a lot more versatile, IMO and based on what you’re describing, I think you’d appreciate that versatility – and it’s still good in powder, just not quite as good as Orca. So, I would be leaning Deep Thinker for what you’re describing. Also, while the Orca is very good in trees when there is powder – and being able to size down the length helps there – it’s not so good when there’s not powder as it’s not as easy to turn with, in my experience – so if there’s shallower powder or no powder in trees, then I’d prefer to have the Deep Thinker.
Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 158. You can often size up for freeride boards, however, I wouldn’t in this case, given that you’re also riding park and trees. And given that you’re used to a 155. So, for the Deep Thinker, I would be looking at the 157. The only concern could be width, though I think you’d be fine. But if you could let me know the mondopoint or US size of your boots, that would be great. EU44 sometimes translates to 28cm mondopoint (US10), sometimes 28.5cm mondopoint (US10.5), and sometimes 29cm mondopoint (US11) – depending on the brand. I think you’d be fine if your boots are either 28 (US10) or 28.5 (10.5) but could be pushing it, if they’re 29 (US11).
If you did go Orca, I’d probably look at the 153.
Thanks for the advise and for you help! your comments are noted and i think it clears the view!
Free thinker was my last choise. Deep thinker and Orca was the primary versus! My ion boots are 44eu(us11) and as per chart of burton is mondo 29. why 154 is not preferable and you suggest me 157(i think im inside both suggestions as per my mesurements)?
I think i will go to deep thinker bc has more things to do / if i had only powder days here in Greece i propably look at orca.
if you have other suggestions(another snowboard) i would like to hear it!
Thanks again!
Hi Paris
Thanks for the extra info.
With 29 mondo Ions, you’re likely looking at around a 31.3cm total outer sole length. The 157 DT is 26.5cm at the back insert (assuming a 22″ stance width). So you’d be looking at around a 4.8cm total overhang, assuming a binding angle of 0 degrees on the back foot – which would be around 2.4cm per edge (assuming perfect boot centering). If you’re looking to carve quite deep that could be pushing it as to too much overhang. But if you don’t carve over aggressively that should be fine. If you have 9 degrees or more angle on that back binding then you’d be saving some overhang – or if you had a wider stance.
So depending on binding angles and carving deepness, I think you could go on it.
But also important to look at is if you ever had any boot drag issues on the 155 Burton Hate. If you didn’t, then you should be fine on the regular width Deep Thinker as well.
I think the 157 is the better overall size for you. The 154 would be doable but on the smaller side for your specs, IMO. Sizing is more about weight than height these days (though I like to take height into account still, but it’s less important than weight). If you were riding purely freestyle (in which case I wouldn’t go Deep Thinker), then the 154 might be more in line. But For your daily driver, do-it-all board the 157 is the better size for you, IMO. Also, if you go purely off Burton’s weight recommendations, at 82kg, you’re right on the high end of the weight range for the 154. Also note that the 154 would be a lot more risky width-wise.
Nate! Thanks for the helping! ( i couldnt answer on the last message ) everything was clear and very helpful!
Me stance is normal and a bit wide 0,5 frm recomended. And the anckles +18 front -9back ( not duck )
Burton custom / process or libtech trice / terrain wrecker – could be suitable for what im searching except deepthinker?
Hi Paris
With that setup, I think you would be OK getting on the Deep Thinker 157.
The Custom/Process (and I’m guessing you’re thinking the camber versions, right?) aren’t great in powder – neither is the T Rice Pro, in my experience. The Terrain Wrecker could work. Not as good as Deep Thinker for carving and at speed, IMO, but decent in powder and should work for how you describe your riding. Note though, that if you went Terrain Wrecker in 157 you wouldn’t be getting any extra width. It’s 264mm at the inserts (so 1mm narrower than the Deep Thinker at the back insert). The waist width makes it look wider, but the difference between waist and inserts isn’t as big.
Thanks for everything Nate! Continue the great work!
Happy holidays for you and your family!
You’re very welcome Paris. Happy holidays to you too and hope you have a great season!
Hi Nate! I consider if the new model would be good for my Bataleon Astro Fullwrap 23 and Burton ION 23? Aren’t my boots and bindings to stiff for new Deep Thinker?
I’d like to buy the 160 (don’t like the wide versions) – is it ok for 190 lbs, 6’2 and US 11.5?
Hey Dave
Thanks for your message.
I think the Ion would be doable. On the stiffer side for it. The Astro Fullwrap may be a bit too stiff though. You could try them out on it, but I found on my Lib Tech Terrain Wrecker (which is, by my feel, softer than the Deep Thinker – more like 5/10 flex vs 6/10 on the Deep Thinker) that the Astro Fullwrap were too stiff for it and made the board feel quite twitchy. Couldn’t say for sure it would do the same with the Deep Thinker, but there’s a reasonable chance that it would.
Length-wise the 160 should work well for you, IMO.
Width-wise, it could be pushing it but you may get away with it, depending on a few factors. The fact you have low profile boots is in your favor here and the fact that the Deep Thinker 160 is a little wider than average for a regular width 160.
With 11.5 Ions, you’ll be looking at a sole length of around 31.8cm (based on the Ions I have measured that were 2.3cm longer than their mondopoint). The width at the back insert, assuming a 22″ (560mm) stance width, will be around 26.8cm. So you’d be looking at a total overhang of around 5cm – or 2.5cm per edge, assuming perfect boot centering. This is assuming a 0 degree back binding angle. If you ride with something like 0-6 degrees on your back binding, it’s not going to make a lot of difference, but you start to lessen your overhang at around 9 degrees.
If you do ride with a 0-6 back binding angle, and you’re going to have around 2.5cm of overhang per edge, that’s at the limit of what I would feel comfortable with. If you’re not getting really deep in your carves, then you might get away with it, but if you’re laying over your carves on a high angle, then it would be risky for boot drag, IMO. At a 15 degree angle, you would decrease your overhang by around 1cm, in which case, I would be a lot more confident you’d be good. If you’ve ridden regular width boards with no drag issues in the past, that’s also a good clue you’ll be fine.
Also, if you’re riding with a wider stance width than 22″ (560mm) you can reduce your overhang by small amounts. But I wouldn’t adjust your stance width to gain that. But if you naturally ride with a wider stance width, then it can reduce your overhang a bit, but not by a huge amount – roughly 2mm for around an inch of extra stance width.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thank you! for such a comprehensive answer. So you confirmed my concerns about the bindings… From what I see, the Jones Flagship 164 has quite similar parameters to the Deep Thinnker 160. Would you be so kind as to compare Deep Thinker (especially 160) with Flagship (164)?
Hey Dave
Sure thing. Firstly, some quick specs comparisons:
EFFECTIVE EDGE: Flagship 122.6cm | DT 122cm
CONTACT LENGTH: Flagship 111.6cm | DT 117.5cm
TAPER: FS 13mm | DT 7mm
WAIST: 254mm | DT 255mm
BACK INSERT: FS 266mm* | DT 268mm
FRONT INSERT: FS 271mm* | DT 269mm
TIP WIDTH: FS 299mm | DT 304mm
TAIL WIDTH: FS 286mm | DT 297mm
SETBACK: FS 20mm | DT 25mm
* note that Jones has the Flagship at 264mm back insert and 269mm front insert – so 2mm narrower at each insert vs how I measured it.
Because of the extra taper in the FS, but a very similar setback, there’s a bigger difference between front and back foot insert width vs the DT. Effective edge is very similar (the Flagship has quite a lengthy nose, so more of it’s overall length is outside the contact points). The DT is overall a little wider and has a longer contact length, so I would agree that they are a fairly similar size comparison, when not in powder. I would still say that the Flagship 164 is a little bigger overall vs the DT 160. At a guestimate I would say the DT 160 is the equivalent of like a 162/163 Flagship. Or put the other way, the 164 Flagship is like a 161/162 DT.
The Flagship is stiffer and would work well with the Astro, IMO, so it solves that part.
Performance-wise, 164 Flagship should be better for powder, probably more stable at speed with the 160DT being better for shorter/sharper turns, powder-less trees and anything like Jumps, butters, ollies etc.
Width-wise, you should be fine at the front insert, but the back insert will be pushing it a little more than the DT. And Jones’ measurements for that were narrower than mine. I take a lot of care when I’m measuring, but if their figures are more accurate, there would be more risk there.
thank you so much, Nate 🙂 To sum up, Flagship is better for me. I should eventually consider 167 option? It is slightly wider. Do you think it would be good for me? I guess it will be a little less agile than 164
Hi Dave
I think you’d definitely be safe width-wise on the 167, but by that point you’d be cancelling out the advantages of staying with a regular width board. I think you’d be better off going 162W over the 167. I think you’d find the 162W more agile than the 167.
Hello again after a month, Nate 🙂 I have the opportunity to buy the new ION Step on and the new Burton X Re:Flex Step on at a very good price (I think I will sell my regular ION 2023 and Bataleon Astro 2023 that I mentioned above). Thanks to your analysis, I think I will buy Jones Flagship. I just have a 3 questions:
1. Do the Burton ION regular boots have the same footprint as the ION Step-on? (I asked the Burton about this, but he claims that both US 11.5 are 33 cm… I think it is not true)
2. Is this set (ION step on, X Re:Flex Step on, Jones Flagship) a good combination in your opinion?
3. Have you had a chance to ride these bindings? From what I’ve read (apart from the new fast entry system) they are more responsive than my old Batalaeon Astro…
4. And one last question – do you think Flagship or Deep Thinker is more suitable for this step on set (ION step on and X Re:Flex Step on)?
Hi Dave
1. I haven’t measured the Ion Step On specifically, but the Photon and Photon Step On were very similar in footprint
2. I think this would work well with the Flagship. That said, I haven’t tested the Step On X bindings. From what I know they are quite stiff/responsive, but they shouldn’t be too much for the Flagship, IMO.
3. Yeah, I’ve heard as well quite stiff and responsive. But having not tested them, couldn’t say for sure if more so than Bataleon Astro or not.
4. The Flagship, IMO, would be more suitable for the Ion/Step On X setup, being a stiffer board than the Deep Thinker. That Step On setup might be too stiff and overpower the Deep Thinker a bit.
Hi Nate –
I appreciate your reviews and comments! I currently own a ’19 Skeleton Key, which I generally take out when conditions are softer/pow. I love how nimble it feels in the trees and lining up jumps off natural features. I also feel confident on it when bombing down runs. With all that said I’m considering trading in my SK for the new Deep Thinker, given the softer feel to it that you highlighted in your review. Also, I think the 160W would fit my size 12 boot better. I’m wondering, what are some discernable attributes between the SK and DT? It seems to me the DT is some kind of love child between SK and the Hometown Hero, yet I’m not sure what the means!
Thanks!
Hey Matthew
Thanks for your message.
Versus the Skeleton Key I found the Deep Thinker lighter and snappier. A little better spring out of turns and more pop. You sacrifice, IMO, a little bit of dampness and not quite as good in powder as the SK. I would say DT even better for trees, though the Skeleton Key maybe a little better when there’s deeper powder in there. Just a little snappier edge-to-edge. But yeah also with side-hits, I’d personally go DT over SK, but SK still really decent for them.
Yeah maybe a SK and HH lovechild, but quite a bit lighter and with a much bigger bow of camber.
Hope this gives you more to go off
Hi Nate,
I’m really glad to have come across your review, as I am about to pick up the 2024 Deep Thinker myself, and your review is helping me to confirm my choice! Thank you so much for sharing this information with all of us 🙂
I recently reached out to Burton and they recommended that I go with a 163W, but I’m not sure if a 160W wouldn’t be a better choice. I’d love to hear your feedback, since you have been riding this board.
I am 186cm tall, weigh around 80kg, and have a size 11 shoe(usually a Burton M-size binding).
I’m an Advanced rider and would say that my riding style is primarily Mellow Freeride with some All-Mountain mixed in. I love going off-piste whenever I can, taking lots of side hits, and a enjoy riding glades a fair amount. I hardly use the park, with the exception of taking jumps(small and large), as I enjoy simple airs, spins, and grabs.
I’ve enjoyed riding boards with sizes anywhere from 157.5 to 162, so I have an idea that both the 160W and 163W could potentially work well for me, but since I have no opportunity to test the DT, I’d be very happy to hear your opinion.
Thank you in advance!
Hi Benas
Thanks for your message. I would be leaning towards the 160W, if I was you. I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 161, which doesn’t put the 163W out of range. However, for a couple of reasons, I would err shorter than 161, rather than longer.
Firstly, since you are in 11s the board will be a little on the wider side in the wide sizes. Your boots are too long, IMO, to go regular, but also wides are a little wider than they’d feel for say a 12 or 13 boot. You’re looking at around a 277mm front insert width and 276mm back insert width. This is nothing crazy wide for 11s or anything like that, you’d be perfectly fine with this width, especially in the 160W but if you were to go to 163W, then the combination of that width and length would make it slightly bigger than ideal. Doable for sure, but I think the 160W will be more optimal for you.
Also, for your riding style, I think you’re likely to prefer the 160W. If you were predominantly bombing at speed and finding deep powder a good number of the days you were going to be riding, then it may tip the balance back to the 163W, but in your case the 160W will feel better, IMO, for trees and side-hits but it should still, at your weight, have good stability at speed and good float in powder. While you might get more for speed and powder in the 163W, my instinct is that the trade off with being less enjoyable in trees and for side-hits would be greater than the trade-off of the slightly less speed/powder performance you’d get from the 160W. In other words, I think the 160W will strike a better balance for your style of riding. That and the width thing, to me, makes the 160W likely to be the best option for you.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thank you so much for your helpful reply, Nate. I really appreciate the advice 🙂
I hadn’t considered the effect of the W board width very much, glad you brought that up.
I’ll go with the 160W.
Have a great season!
You’re very welcome Benas. Hope you have a great season too and hope the board treats you well. If you think of it at the time, let me know how you get on, once you’ve had a chance to get it out on snow.
Hi again Nate,
I just came back after riding the Deep Thinker for six days in Avoriaz, and I love this board!
DT in 160W, with Cartel X EST bindings(size L) and Ion boots(US11.5). The medium stiffness of the bindings and boots seems to go very well with this board, as I was able to control it precisely with this setup.
The Deep Thinker felt extremely stable, precise, and easy to charge for big and small carves. I was able to carve fast with it over all kinds of different snow. I slipped out once or twice on some icy patches, but it happened when I was moving slowly and the board edge didn’t have good contact with the ice, so it was my own fault for not paying attention 🙂
The DT was a lot of fun on side hits. Even if it’s a bit large/stiff, it gave a really fun surfy feel when taking it over the edge of the groomer. It’s size also gave a lot of stability, but there were moments where I had to put in some extra effort to maneuver it in tight spots. It held a really good edge in the half pipe, and had tons of pop off of jumps! I was surprised by its lightness on jumps, spins, and ground tricks, which made it feel nimble for its size.
Riding switch went OK, though I did catch its big nose on a bump or two while making some tight turns in switch. Definitely not a board to be riding switch all day, but not a problem when necessary.
It also took some extra muscle to spin this board when doing ollies and spins on flat ground. At first I had a hard time getting the board to press, or accessing its pop for ollies. However, when I found the right way to move my weight around on this board, I found out how much springy pop this board gives back! So fun! It takes some extra effort to load up and to find the right balance point on this board, but it’s so much fun once you do. Presses on the big nose were easier than on the short tail for sure.
In general, I found that I had to pay extra attention while riding this board, as it had a tendency of catching an edge and throwing me off when I wasn’t paying attention about being centered and aligned with the board, especially on landings. It seemed like it only caught an edge in the moments when I was looking the wrong way hahaha
While it’s not the most forgiving board, it does also offer a lot of stability and power.
We had sun and hard/packed/icy groomed snow for the first four days, and heavy powder and wet snow for the last two days.
The DT was good on the groomers with the icy snow in the first four days, but I found it to shine in the powder and wet/heavy snow.
The Deep thinker was incredibly fun in the heavy powder off-piste! I don’t think I ever had so much fun in powder. I felt like I had perfect control going over any bumps or ice beneath the blanket of fresh snow, and felt extremely comfortable and stable at high speed.
It also felt like the perfect board to punch through wet/sticky/heavy snow on the groomers. I rarely found myself getting stuck in these heavy conditions, unlike others who were riding more flexible/short/twin boards.
Now, I find myself wanting a more nimble twin board that I can take out on hard/icy groomer days, which I can use to easily ride switch(and continue to improve in riding switch), use for ground presses/butters, spin easily, take on side hits, and take to the park for pipes and jumps. I don’t really do rails/boxes much. Basically, I would like a universal twin freestyle board that can be fun to ride on days when the DT doesn’t shine as much… and for variation.
So I have a follow-up question for you: what would you recommend from the Burton lineup as a complementary board to the DT?
I’m considering this season’s Free Thinker in 157/157W or the Blossom in 158, which are both going on sale now. Or… possibly next season’s Rewind(new Name Dropper) in 158 for even more flex/nimbleness. I don’t think it would be possible for me to demo the boards. I’d like to use my Cartel X EST and Ion boots with both boards, which is why I am finding myself limited to Burton.
I’m already leaning towards the Free Thinker, as these two Thinker boards seem like a nice 2-board quiver, and it sounds like a such a great board. From your experience, will the Free Thinker in 157/157W be a bit more playful/flexible and easier to press and pop than the DT in 160W?
And… would I need to go with the FT in Wide? I’m 6’1”, 175 lbs, and use a US11.5 or 11 boot.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this 🙂
Hi Benas!
Thanks for the update and your detailed insights into your experience with the Deep Thinker. Much appreciated.
The FT in a smaller size will for sure be more nimble and easier to press and pop and be better for riding switch. So I think it would definitely work for what you’re describing. And they would work together as a quiver, particularly if you go with the smaller size. But, if you wanted a bigger contrast, then the Rewind/Name Dropper could be a good bet. Or the Good Company. I haven’t ridden a name dropper since like the 2015 model or something! So not sure how it really compares with the Good Company. But I found the Good Company to be a really fun board. Quite playful and poppy. It would be a bigger contras to the FT, IMO. But not as good for carving and at speed. Not as stable, but would work well, IMO, for what you’re looking to do. Might not be quite as good in the pipe as the FT though. You can check out our Good Company Review here to help see if you think it would work for you.
I’d say that the 157W FT would be the safer bet with 11s to 11.5s. But the 157 could be doable depending. If you have lower profile boots and plan to ride it with +15/-15 and aren’t going to be attempting any eurocarves on it, then you could get away with it. That would certainly add to how nimble it is, reduce the weight and make it easier to throw around. Could be pushing it in 11.5s, though the Ion is quite low profile.
I would predict an 11.5 Ion to be have an outer sole length of around 31.8cm (we measure the length of the sole itself but from end to end (not around the curvature) – rather than the full length of the boot – as the heel (above the sole) can stick out). With the insert width of around 26.4cm (with a 22″ stance width), you’d be looking at total overhang of around 5.4cm (or 2.7cm per edge). That would be more than I’d be comfortable with, but this isn’t taking binding angle into account. A 15 degree angle should save you roughly 1cm of overhang. So you’d be looking at more like 4.4cm of total overhang (or 2.2cm per edge). This is something I would be comfortable with. So, I think it’s doable, so long as you don’t think you’ll be doing really deep carves with it.
Same goes with the Good Company as well, which in the 155 is 26.5cm at the inserts (with a 22″ stance width).
Hey Nate
I have Burton Deep Thinker 2019 edition its great board, but i rly dont like edge hold in icy or hard pack snow, can u recommend something similar like DT but with better edge hold at icy conditon ?
Thanks a lot
Hi FilipC
Thanks for your message.
None of these are what I’d call exactly the same, but some options that are similar, but better in hard/icy snow:
– YES PYL (7/10 flex)
– Jones Flagship (7.5/10 flex)
– GNU Banked Country (6.5/10 flex)
– Rome Ravine Select (8.5/10 flex)
Note that these are all in my top picks for freeride snowboards, so you can check that out to look at them more closely (and there are full review links there for each board, so you can see more details.
I would say that the PYL and Banked Country are the best of those in hard/icy conditions, but the Ravine Select and Flagship still better than the 2019 Deep Thinker, IMO.
However, also note that I would say that the Ravine Select is the most similar to the 2019 Deep Thinker, having a similar flex and camber profile. The Flagship is also closer in flex (I’ve put flex numbers in brackets above for what I felt them at, for reference). And as reference I felt the 2021 Deep Thinker (which was the same as the 2019 model) at an 8/10 flex.
The 2022 model of the Banked Country was stiffer, so that’s an option if you wanted to go stiffer than it is now, if you can find a 2022 model. The 2023 model got carbon power bands and a new core, so I suspect that one is more like the 2024 model, which only got a subtle tip/tail shape change.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thanks a lot Nate , perfect as always
You’re very welcome Filip. Hope you have a great season. Keep me updated on what you decide, if you think of it at the time.
Hi Nate. Thanks very much and congrats for the website. Very helpful!
I am looking into the Deep Thinker 2024 after reading your review.
I am 1,86m and 81kg (w/o gear), 10.5 US shoes.
Based on my weight, I should go for the 157 or 157W. But I am concerned it might be too small given my height. Thinking about the 160 or 160W. What do you think?
Advanced level, mellow freeride preferred style. Most of the time I am in groomed pistes, sometimes off-pistes. Not that much into trees. I dont do parks, no big jumps.
Many thanks!
Hi Marino
Thanks for your message.
I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 161. For a freeride board you can go longer too. But given that you want to keep your style more mellow, I wouldn’t go longer than 161, but I think 160 should work well. The 157 wouldn’t be wrong and if you wanted your board to favor more agility at the cost of a some stability at speed, then the 157 is within range. I rode (and bought in the end) the 157 and I’m similar specs to you, though shorter and slightly smaller feet (183cm, 81kg, size 10 boots). I tend to err a little on the smaller size though, because I do like to have that extra maneuverability, particularly because I like to spend a lot of time in the trees. So, for you I’d be leaning 160, given how you describe your riding.
Width-wise, I don’t think you need to go wide with the Deep Thinker. With 10.5s it’s sometime a good idea, depending on the board. But the Deep Thinker should be wide enough in either the 157 or the 160. The 157 is 265mm at the back insert and 266mm at the front insert (at a 22″ stance width – would be wider if you ride with a wider stance width). The 160 will be around 268mm at back insert and 269mm at front insert, which should be plenty wide enough, IMO. The 157 should be wide enough too – it’s only if you were to be riding with a zero degree (or similar) back binding angle and like to really lay your carves over, that I’d be concerned. Or if you had really bulky boots. But you’d likely be fine on the 157 and I don’t think you’d have any issues on the 160 width-wise.
Hope this helps with your decision
Super helpful! Thanks
You’re very welcome Marino. Hope you have a great season!
Hey Nate, I’ve been on the Yes standard for the last few years and have loved it, but am looking to switch it up. I love the turning experience of the standard, and was wondering if the DT will give me something similar. I’m a high level intermediate who prioritizes a nimble and quick ride over everything, which is why I love the standard. Because of this I tend to size down, and was wondering if I could get on the 54 DT at 5’10 205 lbs. I know my weight is pushing it for the 54, but I’m afraid the 57 won’t be as nimble and slashy as I want it to be.
Hi Dec
Thanks for your message.
I wouldn’t say it was the same turning experience. It’s got a different personality. But it is a nimble turner, in my experience, so I think you would like it. Size-wise, if you could also let me know your boot size. The Standard is one that should be sized down, depending on boot size, because it’s wider than most regular width boards. It may be the case that the 54 DT feels smaller than your Standard and the 57 might actually be a better equivalent size. And want to make sure that it’s going to be too narrow in the 54. If you could also let me know the size of your Standard, that would be great.
Hope this helps
I’m on a 153 standard with a size 9.5 boot.
Hi Dec
To establish a reference.
Standard 153 width at inserts: 268mm
DT 154 width at inserts: 262mm front insert, 261mm back insert
DT 157 width at inserts: 266mm front insert, 265mm back insert
All assuming a 22″ stance width.
So the 157s width is fairly close to the 153 Standard – a little narrower overall (similar nose width, waist width but narrower at the tail and a little narrower at inserts), so that, plus the effective edge being considerably longer on the DT, I think the DT 157 will feel bigger than the 153 Standard in this case (some 157s will similar to the 153 Standard, which is why I wanted to establish the size you had).
The 154 DT also has around 2cm more effective edge, but is noticeably narrower overall. So, overall I think it will feel a little smaller than your 153 Standard. But shouldn’t be by too much. To put it another way, I would say the 154DT likely would feel like a 152 Standard size-wise and the 153 Standard would feel like a 155 DT size-wise, if that makes sense.
I still don’t think the 157DT is going to feel too big for you though. So I think it depends on whether you want to go to something that feels slightly longer or slightly shorter than your current size.
Thanks for the feedback! I’m honestly considering building a quiver with the DT and capita mercury, because I can’t decide between the two. If I did had to go with one though based on this convo what would you recommend?
Hey Dec.
Personally I’d go DT. It’s one of my new favorite boards. I have one on order myself.
Gotcha, I’m just worried that my weight will overpower the 54, but I definitely prefer to ride shorter boards just for the sake of maneuverability.
Hi Nate, I’m getting my first new snowboard since I got my beloved 2001 Burton Rippey 158,5. I’ve spent some time here on Snowboarding Profiles to try to pin down what snowboard best suits my riding style. I’m leaning towards being an intermediate (6) rider and probably somewhere between an all-mountain and mellow freeride style. I’m always picking up speed in the groomers and looking for those side hits and fun lines through trees between groomers. Also looking for a fair bit of powder performance. I’m 6 feet, 220 pounds and use Burton Ruler boots in US size 12, meaning my good old board is a bit on the small side for me. I’ve narrowed my board options down to the Jones Mountain twin or YES Standard, but after reading this review I’m thinking maybe I should go for the Burton Deep Thinker in stead? I probably cant go wrong either way? What would you say is the most prominent differences between the Deep Thinker and the two other boards? What size would fit me best, 160W or 163W? Lastly, thanks for a great site with lots of helpful information on choosing my next board!
Hi Alf
Thanks for your message.
I don’t think you can go wrong with either the Mountain Twin or Standard, so those wouldn’t be bad choices at all. But given you mention speed, I think the Deep Thinker would be a good option. Vs the MT and Standard, the Deep Thinker, in my experience, is a little more stable at speed, but still nice and agile, a little better in powder too. It’s not going to ride switch as well but I think for what you’re describing, it would be a good bet.
For your specs, I would be leaning 163W, but the 160W isn’t out of range either, if you wanted to optimize for agility in trees and not upsize too much from what you’re used to. You would sacrifice a little in terms of stability at speed going 160W vs 163W, would be the trade off.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
Thanks for another great review. I’m glad you came back to this one. I’ve added one to my quiver for this year. I’m going to stick with Burton bindings for it. What would you go for between the malavitas, cartels and cartel x’s? I know you enjoyed your set up but I’m thinking the x’s?
Hey Jason.
Yeah I would go with the Cartel Xs too. It does work really well with the Malavitas, so that would be a good option too. I haven’t ridden it with Cartel Xs, but on paper, I think they’d be a great match.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Just wanted advice on a question I’ve been lingering over. I’m sincerely considering the DT but having a size dilemma. I’m 6’3 and 140ish lbs (still growing) with a size 11 boot. Would the 157w be too much board for my weight or in your opinion do you think I can ride it just fine? I plan on using this for groomerst/trees/little bit of powder and also dipping in and out of the park for a third of my days. On the size chart it recommends 150 as a starting weight for the 157w but not sure how accurate that’d be. Thanks
Hi Nickan
Thanks for your message.
I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 156, so I don’t think the 157W is way off. I think it’s on the big side for what you’re looking to do, given you want to ride trees and park as well. But you’re pretty close to it – and as you’re still growing, it won’t be long until it’s a really good size, but you’d have to go through a period of it feeling a little on the big side. The weight recs don’t take height into account. Whilst weight is more important for sizing, I still like to take height into account, because there is a leverage factor.
In short, I think ideally right now, something around 155W would be more ideal, but the 157W shouldn’t feel enormous or anything and is something I think you would quite quickly grow into. I’m not a fan of getting something that you have to grow too much into, but in this case, because I think you’re really close to it and given you probably want the board to last a good few years, I think the 157W works.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thanks for your comment! I’m riding a 155w park board right now and feel fine for the most part so I don’t think 2cm would hurt too much considering it’ll be more comfortable for free ride. Much appreciated, cheers!
You’re very welcome Nickan. Hope it treats you well.
Do you recommend Burton Ruler for DT
I know Photon are better but they are more expensive in my country so i have Ruler for better price , so how they fit toghether ?
Tell me opinion for Ruler and for Photon please,
Thanks Nate
Hi Filip
Ideally I would go stiffer than the Ruler for the Deep Thinker. Something at least 6/10 flex and ideally more like 7/10 to 8/10 flex. I found the Ruler closer to 5/10 flex. The Photon is a better flex match (at around 6.5/10 flex), IMO. The Ion would be even better (but super expensive on that one). If you can stretch it to Photon, that’s the way I’d go, but the Ruler are doable for it.
Hi Nate!
Just wondering whether you’ve had a chance to try out the 2023 Burton Deep Thinker as of yet and any initial thoughts?
Thanks
Hi David
Thanks for your message.
We haven’t had a chance to test the 2023 Deep Thinker yet unfortunately. When we make our list of boards to target for testing, we go off specs in the catalogs (can’t test them all in a season unfortunately so have to prioritize!) and the Deep Thinker appeared to have not changed, so we didn’t target it. But by all accounts it sounds like it has changed. But we can’t say from experience how different it is or exactly in what way it changed, though it appears that it’s now more mellow. The Free Thinker, which we did test, is a lot different, despite appearing the same in the specs and is mellower than it used to be (though still more aggressive than it is playful).
But yeah, unfortunately haven’t been able to get on the 2023 yet. Might try to see if we can and if not, we’ll look at testing the 2024 model (assuming it comes back with a 2024 model, which my guess is that it will).
Hey Nate
What bindings size from Burton shoul i get M or L
I am wearing 44 28cm nike for example and 43 1/3 adidas
So its 43-44 depend on sizing
I saw on burton website that i can get M and L too so what is better for me ?
Hi Filip
With your size boots, I would go M. IMO they will fit the bindings the best. I found Burton’s Large too big for my US9.5 Adidas Tactical ADV (which I believe is the 43.3 size). The Nike 44 might fit in there, but I still think it’s going to fit better in the M.
Hope this helps
Thanks a lot
Hi Nate
Im 194 cm tall and 85 kg
Wearing 44 EU 10 USA shoes
What would be ideal DT size for me ?
160cm regular ? I dont want to drag my shoes or smth
Hi Filip
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, I think the 160 is your best bet. Shouldn’t have any issues with boot drag on it with 10s, IMO. I mean if you have really bulky boots and a back binding angle that’s like 0-3 degree AND you’re eurocarving, then it’s possible. But you should be good on the the 160 regular width with 10s.
Hope this helps
I use my bindings at +15 -12 not bellow that
So i will be ok even at eurocarving ?
Hey Filip
IMO you should be OK. Note that I don’t personally eurocarve, so no guarantees. But should be fine, especially if you’re boots aren’t too bulky. Put it this way, if you’ve got 10s that are around 2.5cm longer on the outsole compared to mondo, then you’re looking at around 30.5cm in boot length. The 160 DT is 26.7cm at the back insert. So you’d be looking at around 3.8cm of total boot overhang. At a 15 degree angle that decreases by roughly 10mm (or 1cm) reducing total overhang to 2.8cm – or 1.4cm per edge, assuming perfect boot centering. That’s not a lot of overhang – especially when you take into account toe bevel on your boots that should allow you a pretty big angle to be able to carve from.
Thanks
You are awesome
You’re very welcome Filip. Hope you have an awesome season!
Hey Nate,
Great information and review. I currently own a Burton Custom from 2001. It’s served me very well for that time. I’d consider myself intermediate and above but not an expert. As I’ve gotten older I enjoy better carving and riding the mountain more than the terrain park. I appreciated your review and the fact that the carving was a great component of this board. With that being said, I’m a 165lb, 9 boot and 5’8” height. I was eyeing the 154, but after some of the comments you gave to some other riders, I’m wondering if the 157 wouldn’t be better? What are you thoughts?
Hi Karim
Thanks for your message.
I think the 157 is doable for you. I would put your “standard” length at around 156/157. However, with 9s, this board isn’t what I would call too wide, but it’s borderline – it’s on the wider side for your feet, IMO. So, sizing down to the 154 wouldn’t be a bad idea. Both sizes are in range, but it depends on what you want to optimize more. The 157 will be better in terms of stability at speed, float in powder and for longer, more drawn out big carves. The 154 will have better agility at slower speeds and be the easier ride of the 2. Also better for tricks, but in this case that’s not as relevant.
Note also that the 2023 Deep Thinker, I think, is a bit of a different board. I haven’t updated this review to 2023, because I’ve heard it’s quite different. On paper it’s identical to the 2022 model, which is why we chose not to test the 2023 model, but by all reports this board has become softer and more easy going than past editions. I did re-ride the 2023 Freethinker (which is the more freestyle version of this board) and that, despite being the same on paper, was a very different board. But I would say this board is still a very good carver.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hey Nate,
I’m 6 ft 170 lbs with 10.5 boot size. I ride posi posi maxed out on EST. Do you think I’ll be fine with a 157 Deepthinker?
Thanks in advance.
Hey Norm
Thanks for your message.
When you say posi posi maxed out, you mean you have both bindings on as big a positive angle as you can get? I can’t remember off hand what EST bindings can go to, but for example +30/+30 binding angles. Just want to clarify because I don’t hear many going with a positive angle (toes facing front) to that degree, so just to make sure I have that info accurate.
Assuming that’s what you mean, then you should be fine. With that kind of angle on your bindings, you’ll be reducing overhang considerably compared to straigher back binding angles. Even with bulkier 10.5s and doing hard carves, you should be all good, IMO.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate-
love the review, thank you! Im 6-3” 185lbs and advanved intermediate who loves high speed carves. Would the 157W be the right sizing and would my size 13 boots fit?
Thanks!
Eric
Hi Eric
Thanks for your message.
I think the 160W would be better for your specs, particularly given that you like high speed carves. Going there would also give you more leeway in terms of width. I think you can get away with the width, depending on binding angles and the profile of your boots. Might still be a little narrow, even on the 160W if you have bulkier boots and a straight back binding angle. The 160W is around 275mm at the back insert. With 13s, if they’re nice and low profile, you’re looking at around 33cm in length on the outersole, which is around a 5.5cm total overhang, assuming a straight back binding angle. That’s really the very max I would go with and even then it’s pushing it if you like to carve deep. If you ride with some angle on that back binding it gives you a bit more leeway. With a bulkier boot, I think it’d be pushing it. The 157W is that little bit narrower, and even with low profile boots would be pushing it. But I think 160 is a better length for you anyway.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hi Nate,
I’m 6’5” 220 lbs size 13. I’m riding the Instigator Flat 160W. I’ve been riding this board for two years now. I like to carve and stable speed. I’m not big into hits and parks. With my board now it’s not very stable through the rough stuff in the middle of the day when I’m trying to get some speed. Would this board be good for me in a 160W?
Hi Tony
Thanks for your message.
The Deep Thinker would definitely give you a lot more stability at speed. It’s a lot more board than the Instigator – it’s camber and it’s a lot stiffer. If you feel like you’re still an intermediate rider, particularly if you feel you’re still low intermediate, then it’s going to be a big step up from your current board. You could give it a go – and in that case, I would go 160W. If you feel like you’re at a more advanced level, then I would go to the 163W.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey Nate,
I want to start by saying that I really appreciate the forum that you’ve created here. The concise, thorough information that you’ve laid out for the public is fantastic.
Here comes the part where I ask for some advice however… 😛
I’m a relatively beginner/intermediate snowboarder. This was my first season, and I have about 6 days total Snowboarded. Somehow, day 2 I was doing double black’s at snowbird albeit not well (take this for what it’s worth).
I’m 5’5″, weigh ~160 lbs, and my boot size is a 7 (small bindings).
I recently began purchasing my gear, and I currently have the Burton Cartel X EST’s, Burton Photon boots, and recently purchased a Burton Deep Thinker 154.
The 154 was available at a local shop for 20% off so I decided to capitalize. I’m a little worried though that this board may be too advanced for me. I feel like the board generally fits the description of the riding I’d like to do: (all mountain leaning towards off-piste, good carving, good for powder days).
Do you think this purchase was a mistake? What other boards would you recommend? I believe I am able to get my hands on a Burton Custom Flying V in 150 for about the same price, but I’d like to keep this board if possible.
Best,
Carlos M.
Hi Carlos
Thanks for your message.
I think the boot and bindings match the board well – but the setup as a whole isn’t one I’d recommend for 6 days experience. The problem with going with this kind of setup before you’re ready for it, is that it can lead to crude technique and can affect your confidence – and also not be that enjoyable to ride, so can even make you start to dislike riding altogether (the last thing you want!). So yeah, unfortunately this isn’t a setup I would recommend, yet.
The Custom Flying V 150 would be a much better option. Still not a pure beginner board, but given that it sounds like your progressing quickly – and in the 150 size – I think this would be a much better option.
Size-wise, I think 154 would be a good size for that board, when you’re more advanced, so if you had the means to keep it and use it later when you’re more advanced you could. I think the 150 for the Custom Flying V would be a good beginner length for you. I would say around 153-155 is a good all-mountain length for your specs at a more advanced level and 150-152 is the optimal range, IMO, as a beginner.
Some other options below, if you were interested. The first list is complete beginner boards. The second list is more beginner bordering on intermediate, which it sounds like might be where you’re at. But if you wanted to go Custom Flying V in 150, I think that would work too. But I would be very hesitant on the Deep Thinker at this stage.
>>My Top 15 Men’s Snowboards for Beginners
>>Top 10 Intermediate Snowboards
Hope this helps
I have the 2019/2020 163W version of this and I love it out here in WA.
I clock in at 240lbs/6’ and have been riding for 20+ years. Usually I ride twins but when I moved from CO to WA I wanted something different for the really heavy mushy snow here that wouldn’t squirm so much.
Not sure if it’s my weight or how I ride but this made certain runs way more fun in terms of control. You can break it loose but like the review says keep it pointed straight for maximum joy.
Low to mid-speed spins are fun but I agree with the review, you basically land on a knife edge and unlike my Process, which is super forgiving, the Deep Thinker will punish you if your technique isn’t dialed in.
Great review and super fun to hear what others think of the ride!
Hey Shawn
Thanks for your message and your insights, much appreciated.
Hi Nate,
Thanks for this review. It was super helpful. I’m 5’5” and 155 lbs. I wear 8.5 Burton boots. For the longest time I’ve ridden a 156 wide camber because I was just misinformed when I started out 15 years ago. My jam is more going fast and having a good amount of control at fast speeds.
Would you think a 154 would be ok, given all the info above? Thanks!
Hi Peter
Thanks for your message.
I think 154 is spot on for you for your specs and how you describe your riding, for this board. And I think you’ll really appreciate the width on it too, compared to your wide. Of course after 15 years of riding one board, it will take an adjustment period, but when you do, I think you’ll really appreciate it. And for what you describe I think the board is a good choice too.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
I’m super impressed with your knowledge and patience answering so many peoples questions! I’m an advanced all mountain rider- 170 lbs with a 10.5 boot and have been riding a salomon fastback 163 since about 2002. Last year I decided to finally get a new board and went with the deep thinker 157 after demoing several. I think I probably should have gotten a wide since a couple of times in hard fast turns the heels/toes of my boots hit and caused me to lose my edge… but I bought the board- still unused/wrapped just so I could apply the demo cost to. I was going to continue using my old salomon bindings but they’ve seen better days and I would need to get new pucks to fit the burton channel system so I’m planning on getting new bindings. Torn between getting genesis EST but reluctant to have bindings that’ll only work for burton boards. I’m not super convinced that the increased board feel will be worth the trade off but am also a little worried that using non EST bindings with only two bolts close together underfoot won’t be secure enough. What are your thoughts? If EST which burton bindings would you suggest? If non EST which bindings would you recommend? Thank you in advance for your input!
Hi Ryan
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, definitely right on that cuff with 10.5s in terms of going wide or not. Sometimes yeah, sometimes no. In this case, given that you got boot drag, probably the 157W makes more sense.
In terms of bindings for the Deep Thinker, I don’t think you need to go EST necessarily. I think as far as Burton bindings go, EST bindings do work better on the channel than Re:flex, but it’s not a deal breaker, IMO. I have never felt unsecure on the Channel with Burton Re:Flex bindings. I haven’t put other bindings on Burton boards before, but I’ve never heard of any issues in terms of not being secure.
If you go EST, I would go Custom X for the Deep Thinker. The Genesis would be OK, but ideally you’d want something stiffer for that board, IMO.
If you don’t go EST, then there are a lot of options from Burton and other brands. I would check out the following:
>>Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
>>Top 5 Freeride Bindings
Hope this helps
Hey, Im 6.1 155 lb intermediate rider. Do you think 157 would be too large?
Hi Brennen
Thanks for your message.
As a freeride board – and assuming you’re looking for good float in powder and good stability at speed and that kind of thing, I think the 157 is a good size for your specs.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Im 5’10 and size 9.5 Boot – do you suggest going with a 157, 157W, or 160?
Hi James
Can you please let me know your weight. Weight is more important for length sizing than height. With a 9.5 boot, I wouldn’t go wide, but in terms of the length, it will really depend on your weight. Since you’re looking at this board, I assume you’re a relatively advanced rider and want to be able to ride fast, carve etc. But if you can also let me know a little about how you like to ride, as that also comes into sizing, IMO.
Hi Nate,
Not sure if my last message went through. I’m an intermediate-advanced all mountain freestyle rider. I want to be able to play around with the board and take it on more uneven terrain and powder, but also ride fast, carve. I would love to know if this works for my style of riding.
I’m 175 lbs
Hi James
Size-wise, I think the 157 is probably the best way to go for this board.
In terms of whether it’s suitable or not. For everything you’re describing there it’s suitable for that, if you’re happy with a stiffer deck. Everything except when you say all-mountain freestyle. Do you ride any park? Or do sidehits, spins, 180s, butters or other tricks around the mountain? If you are doing freestyle stuff, then there are more suitable options than this, but if not, then this could work for sure.
I am an intermediate rider, but I’ve had the same board for the last 5 years and I need a new one. I was thinking of getting the Deep thinker to have at college with me where I will be snowboarding in the next upcoming years. Do you think an intermediate could handle this board?
Hi Jack
Thanks for your message.
IMO not a great board for an intermediate. If you’re a high level intermediate and quite athletic and/or went with a size that’s a little shorter than what you usually would, then I think you’d get away with it, assuming you like to ride fast, powder etc and not much in terms of freestyle or anything too tight, like trees too much. Then I think it’s doable. But a lot of ifs to make it doable, IMO.
Hope this helps
Hey!
Your reviews are awesome and super helpful.
Im ordering a deep thinker very soon. Im 195lbs , 5’11 and size 11 boot.
Do you think I should go 157W on this? I fall right in between sizes and not sure which way to go.
Hi Sam
Thanks for your message.
I don’t think the 157W would be wrong, but I would be leaning towards 160 or 160W for your specs.
The 160 could be wide enough in the right circumstances. If you have low profile boots and ride with binding angles like +15/-15 or similar, then I think you could potentially sneak onto the 160. In all other scenarios, I would be looking at the 160W.
But like I said the 157W isn’t wrong. It would be a very good width for you, IMO. It’s downsizing a little bit, but if you prefer something a little shorter, then it is a possibility. Just note that it would likely feel a little softer than how I felt the board – not soft or anything, but maybe more like a 7/10, at a guess, than an 8/10. 157W would be more maneuverable at slower speeds but less stable at higher speeds versus the 160 or 160W – and not be as good in powder as the longer options.
Hope this helps with your decision
Does the deep thinker feel and ride stiffer than the custom and flight attendant?
Hi Jay
Thanks for your message.
Yeah it felt and rode stiffer than the Custom and Flight Attendant to me. But not quite as stiff as the Custom X or Straight Chuter.
Odd about the straight chuter. It’s not rated on the Burton site as being that stiff or aggressive.
Thanks for the info, most likely made my decision based on this.
Hi Jay
Yeah strange that they have it listed as a happy medium. Not sure if that’s an error? Just went back over my notes and definitely confirmed that I found it stiffer than the Deep Thinker (which I rode the same day). And the Burton rep even described the Straight Chuter as the freeride Custom X. And I’ve read other reviews saying they found it really stiff. So yeah thinking it’s probably a typo on their website.
Hi Nate,
First of all thanks for your feeback about Burton Deepthinker 21.
Regarding your comment in Flex i’m 155lbs and 5’81 do you suggest 154cm or 157?
I also reading a comparative between Deep thinker and Skeleton key.
Skeleton key is more lighter than Deep thinker/
Did you have the feeling of “heavy board”?
Thanks in advance
Matthieu
Hi Matthieu
Thanks for your message.
For your specs, I would go 154 for sure.
The Deep Thinker felt just a little heavier than normal to me, overall. It’s not a super heavy board by any means, but a little heavier than normal, from my feel and a little heavier than the Skeleton Key from my feel. I didn’t weigh either of these boards, so this is just how they felt to me to ride. Being stiffer can make a board feel heavier too sometimes, so with the Deep Thinker being stiffer than the Skeleton Key, that will influence that too.
Hope this helps