Hello and welcome to my list of what I consider the top freeride snowboards this year.
This top 5 will outline what I think are the best men’s freeride snowboards for the 2017/18 season.
As is tradition here at SnowboardingProfiles.com each board is given a score out of 100. This list has been compiled from reviews of 20 different freeride snowboards.
Some Quick Stats
Of the 20 Freeride boards I looked at:
- The average score was 82.1/100
- The highest score was 91.8/100 (see below)
- The lowest score was 57.1/100
- The average price was $599
O.k. let’s get straight into it!
Men’s Freeride Snowboard #5
Board: Never Summer Chairman
Price: View more info and current price here
Flex: Stiff (8/10)
Rating: 85.9/100
In at #5 we have the Never Summer Chairman.
The Chairman underwent some changes for the 2018 model and is now a hybrid between the now defunct Twenty Five and the 2017 Chairman.
A welcome change in my opinion – the addition of the Ripsaw Rocker Camber profile on this board has helped to make it a carving machine, which added to it’s already inherent powder prowess.
Now this bomber is made to charge the mountain hard, whether on the groomers or in the deep stuff.
Learn more about the Chairman in the video below
Score Breakdown for the Chairman
| FACTOR | RATING (OUT OF 5) | CONTRIBUTION TO FINAL SCORE |
|---|---|---|
| Carving: | 4.5 | 27/30 |
| Powder: | 4.0 | 16/20 |
| Speed: | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Uneven Terrain: | 3.5 | 10.5/15 |
| Jumps: | 2.5 | 5/10 |
| Switch: | 2.5 | 2.5/5 |
| TOTAL after normalizing | 85.9/100 |
Men’s Freeride Snowboard #4
Board: Jones Flagship
Price: View more info and current price here
Flex: Stiff (8/10)
Rating: 86.4/100
The next board on the list, in at #4, the Flagship, is the perfect freeride board if you like to do a bit of freestyle riding off natural terrain – as well as all your typical freeride endeavors.
The Flagship has exceptional float in powder, is super fast and aggressive and can carve with the best of them – but it also allows you to rock some freestyle wherever you are in the backcountry or on the groomers.
New for the 2016-17 season, the Flagship has Jones’ new Spoon 3.0 tech (learn more in the video below). This helps with float in powder and giving it a surfy feel.
Check out this video for more on the Flagship and to see it in action
Flagship Score Breakdown
| FACTOR | RATING (OUT OF 5) | CONTRIBUTION TO FINAL SCORE |
|---|---|---|
| Carving: | 4.0 | 24/30 |
| Powder: | 5.0 | 20/20 |
| Speed: | 5.0 | 20/20 |
| Uneven Terrain: | 2.5 | 7.5/15 |
| Jumps: | 3.0 | 6/10 |
| Switch: | 2.0 | 2/5 |
| TOTAL after normalizing | 86.4/100 |
Men’s Freeride Snowboard #3
Board: Rossignol XV Magtek
Price: View more info and current price here
Flex: Stiff (9/10)
Rating: 88.0/100
- HARD/ICY SNOW OPTION
Starting at #5 is the impressive Rossi XV Magtek. There wasn’t much in it in this list so even though the XV Magtek is at # 5 it wasn’t far off being the number 1 board here.
The XV Magtek is super stiff so not for the faint-hearted!
That stiffness will bring with it some awesome responsiveness but will also be very unforgiving of errors.
This board is definitely a big mountain bomber that will float effortlessly over powder, cut straight through the choppiest conditions and grip even the hardest ice (due largely to its magne-traction edges). It is also super fast and super stable at high speeds.
Check out the video for more
Score Breakdown for XV Magtek
| FACTOR | RATING (OUT OF 5) | CONTRIBUTION TO FINAL SCORE |
|---|---|---|
| Carving: | 4.5 | 27/30 |
| Powder: | 5.0 | 20/20 |
| Speed: | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Uneven Terrain: | 3.0 | 9/15 |
| Jumps: | 2.5 | 5/10 |
| Switch: | 2.0 | 2/5 |
| TOTAL after normalizing | 88.0/100 |
Men’s Freeride Snowboard #2
Board: Burton Flight Attendant
Price: View more info and current price here
Flex: Medium-Stiff (7/10)
Rating: 91.3/100
In the #2 spot, we have Burton’s Flight Attendant.
None of these boards receive extra points for their price – but if they did the Burton Flight Attendant would likely be #1 here. On a performance for money scale for freeride snowboards the Burton Flight Attendant is the top of the lot.
The Flight Attendant has everything you want out of a freeride board. It floats beautifully in powder, carves hard without even the hint of even getting close to washing out, and is super fast and super stable at those high speeds.
And if you like having a slightly more playful ride for the backcountry to rock some freestyle off those natural hits then the flight attendant is a good way to go. It’s got a slightly more forgiving flex than most on this list.
Check out the Video below for more on the Flight Attendant
Flight Attendant Score Breakdown
| FACTOR | RATING (OUT OF 5) | CONTRIBUTION TO FINAL SCORE |
|---|---|---|
| Carving: | 5.0 | 30/30 |
| Powder: | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Speed: | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Uneven Terrain: | 3.5 | 10.5/15 |
| Jumps: | 2.5 | 5/10 |
| Switch: | 2.5 | 2.5/5 |
| TOTAL after normalizing | 91.3/100 |
Men’s Freeride Snowboard #1
Board: Yes Pick Your Line
Price: View more info and current price here
Flex: Stiff (8/10)
Rating: 91.8/100
- HARD/ICY SNOW OPTION
The super aggressive, hard carving, big mountain machine, is the Yes Pick Your Line.
A well deserved taker of the # 1 spot in this list.
The Pick Your Line has a really stiff flex of a 9/10 so it’s not for the faint of heart but it is for those that like their riding aggressive and steep.
With equally good float in powder, speed and carving abilities the Pick Your Line can take whatever you throw at it in the backcountry or on the groomers. It achieves a great ability to switch been hard snow and powder and still be great on both. This is down partly to the unique tapered underbite (see more in the video below).
Check out the Video below for some more info on the PYL
Score Breakdown for the PYL
| FACTOR | RATING (OUT OF 5) | CONTRIBUTION TO FINAL SCORE |
|---|---|---|
| Carving: | 4.5 | 27/30 |
| Powder: | 5.0 | 20/20 |
| Speed: | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Uneven Terrain: | 3.5 | 10.5/15 |
| Jumps: | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Switch: | 2.0 | 2/5 |
| TOTAL after normalizing | 91.8/100 |
Over to You
Even though I’ve scored these boards and put them in order, what you consider to be the best of this list will depend on your preferences. And this isn’t an exact science, but hopefully this gives you some options and perspective on some great freeride boards and what might suit you the best.
Thanks for reading and I hope this post has helped you find your perfect freeride board. Check out the links under each board to learn more.
Hi Nate,
I am 5’8 150lbs and experienced east coast snowboarder. Looking for a board to carve groomers. I deal with icy and hard pack conditions a lot of the time. Which one of these boards would you suggest considering for those conditions? While the flight attendant is the highest rated it seems to be more built for powder. Is the Magtek XV then the best choice? I never go into the park so I’m just looking for a really good carving board.
Hey Mike
I would agree that for your purposes the Flight Attendant probably isn’t the best choice on this list. In fact it’s probably going to be the worst of any boards on this list in hard and icy conditions.
The Magtek XV will be awesome on ice as will the Yes Pick Your Line.
Keep in mind that the Magtek XV is as stiff as they come so if you’re not used to a board that stiff it might take some getting used to. But definitely a good choice for hard pack and ice.
Another option for you is an aggressive-all-mountain board. These boards are great carvers and have the same medium-stiff to stiff flex that you’ll be after but aren’t set up for riding the backcountry as much – they won’t be as good in the powder as a freeride board. But might well suit your purposes well if you don’t tend to go into the backcountry much.
I haven’t finished writing my top 5 aggressive all mountain list yet but I have done the research so you can check out what I have narrowed down my top 5 to below.
Update: Aggressive all Mountain post done now. Check it out at the link below.
~ My Top 6 Aggressive All Mountain Snowboards
Yes Standard
Rome Anthem
Burton Custom X
Slash ATV
GNU Billy Goat
These won’t be as good as the XV Magtek and the Pick Your Line on ice but they’ll all handle hard snow conditions really well. And they’re all awesome carvers.
So yeah, for you I would go with the Rossi XV Magtek, Yes Pick Your Line or look into those aggressive-all-mountain decks. I’ll add a link here to my top 5 aggressive all mountain boards once I’m finished with it.
Hope this helps.
Hi Nate,
Thanks for the quick response and also for the work that you put into the reviews/this site. I am currently riding a Palmer crown and it’s a very stiff board. I love it for bombing down groomers and laying into hard carves because it gives me the confidence to go as fast as I can and know that it will hold. I can’t remember the year I bought it but it’s over 10 years old now. Over the past few years I have upgraded all my other equipment from goggles to boots, bindings, jacket and pants. The only dig against the Palmer is that it requires effort to turn and also you have to be on top of your technique. It’s not really anything against the board just the way it is due to what it’s set up to do. I love riding this way so it seems like the XV Magtek would be right on par and probably even better.
My one thought is that since I do have the stiff Palmer maybe I should go with the Yes PYL for something a bit different and a little more playful. Like I said I never step foot in the park so I would really only be popping off natural aspects of the trail.
I will look into some of the aggressive free ride boards you mentioned. In the mean time if you wouldn’t mind could you compare the Yes PYL to the Rossi XV? What are the main differences?
Hi Mike
You’re welcome.
Since you are used to that kind of stiffness then I would say that the Rossi XV and YES PYL would be your best bets over the aggressive-all-mountain boards I suggested. They will do better in ice and it sounds like you encounter ice a fair bit.
The Pick Your Line and the XV are quite similar boards. They both have a hybrid camber profile, they both have a tapered directional shape, they both have great edge-hold of ice and hard pack and they’re both currently the same price! The main differences are:
~ The PYL is probably marginally quicker from edge to edge
~ The XV is marginally stiffer – the PYL is still a really stiff board though and will feel pretty close in stiffness
~ The PYL has a 10mm setback stance and the XV has a 30mm setback stance – this is probably the main difference and helps the XV Magtek have very slightly better float in powder
~ The PYL is better with jumps – so this would be slightly better for when you’re popping off those natural hits
Hope that helps to make your decision easier!
Hi Nate,
I think I’ve decided to go with the Yes PYL. My last decision here is whether to go with the 156 or 159. I think I mentioned I’m 5’8 150lbs but wanted to re-iterate that since it plays into the decision. My current board is a 160. I ended up going with the 160 on my current board because I’ve heard you should go a little longer for a freeride board. I spoke to a guy in a shop last year that said really I should be on a 155. Can you provide any insight into the benefits of going with one size or the other?
Hey Mike
A great choice with the PYL.
Your right that you should go longer for a freeride board. I also agree with the guy in the shop. I would have you at a 155cm “standard length”. But as you want to add size to a freeride board I would go longer than that. The question is how much longer. I usually say around 2-4cm longer. That extra length gives more stability at speed and better float in powder. It doesn’t sound like you’ll be hitting much powder but still that extra length will help with stability at speed.
It’s a tough choice really because the 156 I think would be fine but the 159 would also be suitable. Since you currently ride a 160 the 159 will be closer to what you are used to. I think the 160 is slightly too long for you but the 159 would be within your range. I would say it’s 50/50 on length.
I would say the deciding factor would be the board’s width. I think the 156cm board would have a better width for your foot size (making an assumption about your foot size based on your height).
Also whilst you fit in the weight recommendations for both sizes you fit more in the middle for the 156cm.
So in short I think both would work but the 156cm would be the slightly better choice (assuming my assumptions about your foot size are roughly correct).
If you’re not buying from a local store I did find the board in both 156 and 159 at the following link.
Yes PYL at backcountry.com
Hope this has helped and let me know if there’s anything else that I can help with.
Hey Nate,
Good stuff. I currently wear a size 10 Salomon F22 boot. Which of the two matches up better with my boot size?
Hey Mike
Actually with a size 10 boot you would be sweet width-wise on both the 156 and 159. So there’s really very little in it. I’d probably still say the 156 only just over the 159 simply because it’s probably a slightly better fit for your weight.
Hi Nate – really appreciate the detail in your comparative review. I’m torn between the Arbor A Frame and the Flight Attendant, and a google of both brought me here. I’m a shorter/lighter rider – 5’6 and 62kg. Consider myself very experienced, and love the sound of the Arbor on the goodride review, but possible that at 158 it’s going to be a little too big for me to move around effectively. The Burton comes in a 156 that might be a better fit? Your expert view would be really appreciated before I hit the buy button.
Cheers,
Luke
Hey Luke
Thanks for the message.
I think that you should definitely go with the Flight Attendant 156. In my opinion the 158 is going to be too big for you. You definitely want to go longer on a freeride board but I wouldn’t go as long as 158 for you.
Hope this helps your decision
Nate
Good shout, thanks, I think you’re right but did need to hear it from someone else! Flight Attendant ordered!
Nice one!
And good choice. Hope it treats you well. If you think about it let me know your first impressions after you ride it.
Have an awesome season!
What about the womens freeride top 5?
Hey E
Funny you should mention it – I’m working on the women’s top 5 freeride snowboards as we speak. It should be out on Wednesday. I’ll update this comment when it’s out.
Or you could follow SnowboardingProfiles on twitter or facebook and I can send you a message when it comes out.
https://twitter.com/snowboardinbios
https://www.facebook.com/snowboardingprofiles/
Women’s top 5 freeride decks is up now. Check out the link below.
Women’s Top 5 Freeride Snowboards
Hey Nate,
Great reviews on all boards, it’s refreshing and disconcerting to have so many great choices for free ride boards. I am looking to purchase one very soon and wondered which of the boards do you think would be best suited for someone who hits the steeps, trees and is happy to do a mogul run or two. I would consider my self an advanced rider- 20 years and still going! My main concern is figuring which of the boards is best for someone who weighs 235 lbs, 6′-2″ with size 12 feet.
I’m leaning towards the PYL or the Flagship but would be open to other suggestions. I currently ride a NS Titan 164 and find it a bit stiff on bumped up terrain.
Best,
Paul
Hey Paul
Thanks for the message. Sorry for the late reply – I’ve had a very eventful weekend!
All of the boards are probably going to be as stiff or stiffer than the Titan I would think. That said I don’t think they would be too bad going down a mogul or two – but they won’t be amazing either.
In terms of length I’d have you on a 165cm and above and would even go up to a 170cm. In terms of width I’d want something between a 260mm and 266mm. You’d get away with something less than 260mm with low profile boots.
With that in mind I think your best choices on this list would be the:
Flagship 165W
Flagship 166 (with low profile boots)
Flagship 169W – it’s a bit wide with a 270mm waist width but you’d prob get away with it because of the shallow sidecut
PYL 165 (with low profiles)
Arbor A Frame 167W – again a 270mm WW but also again it has a shallow sidecut
The Flight Attendant doesn’t have an appropriate size for you in my opinion and I haven’t included anything for the XV Magtek because it sounds like you’re not looking for something quite that stiff.
Hope this helps,
Nate
In terms of size
Hello, Nate! Thank for a review, it’s very helpful.
I’m looking for freeride/backcountry board and my choice is between these five. I’m 6’3 and 170 lbs feet size – 9.5. My all-around board is Capita DOA 158 2015. Level – a bit higher that intermediate. I think perfect size is 162-163. But XV 163 is stiff for me and for big mountains in my opinion. I’m not sure but YES PYL and Burton FA can be the best choice. They look very similar aren’t they? But PYL is a stiffer board? Should I choose one of these two or maybe Flagship 161? Or 164 size will be better?
Thank you in advance, Nate!
Hi Valentin
I think anywhere from a 161 to 165 would be a good size for a freeride board for you. I think your reasoning is good and I would go with one of the following.
~Burton Flight Attendant 162
~Yes PYL 162
~Jones Flagship 161 (you could also get away with the 164 but I think the 161 would be a slightly better fit in terms of its width)
You’re right that the PYL is a bit stiffer than the FA and by the sounds of it you’re not looking for something too stiff – and that is probably a good call for an intermediate-advanced rider. In that case I would weigh up between the Flight Attendant and the Flagship. Either one would be a great choice I think.
Hope this helps
Thank you, Nate!
You’ve confirmed that my reasoning is reasonable. Is there marked difference between 161 and 164 in powder? As I understand for powder FS 164 is better, but 161 is more useful.
Is YES PYL 162 stiffer than Jones FS 161 and 164?
Best regards!
You’re very welcome!
The longer flagship (164) would float more in powder but yeah the 161 would be more versatile for you.
The PYL 162 will be slightly stiffer but not a huge amount.
Merry Christmas Nate!
I need your advice again! After our discussion I bought Flagship 164. I like this board, but it is too stiff for my riding style. I’ve just sold it.
Now I choose between Burton FA 162 and Yes PYL 162.
YES PYL 162 (16-17) is available in local store and Burton Flight Attendant 162 is available online. In the hands PYL looks softer than Flagship 164 (in my opinion 7-8 on Jones scale, very similar to Jones UMT 162).
What are the most significant differences between FA (2017) and PYL (2017)?
Why have you scored powder ability of FA 4.5/5?
Thank you in advance!
Hi Velentin
Merry Christmas!
YES flex ratings tend to be stiffer than what they are. But I’d say that the PYL, to me, feels similar to the Flagship size for size in terms of flex. But the 162 PYL will feel softer when riding, than the Flagship 164 – a. because it’s a shorter length and b. because it has more rocker in the profile.
The Flight Attendant is a little bit softer than both of those again.
The 4.5/5 for powder for the FA is just that other boards have felt slightly better in powder – but it’s not by much, the FA is still a great board in powder. I’d say that the PYL is just a tiny bit better, but there’s not a lot of difference.
The main differences between the boards are, IMO:
1. The FA is slightly softer flexing
2. The FA has more camber in the camber profile (mostly camber with a rockered nose) and the PYL has more rocker in the profile – and this is largely the reason why the PYL is slightly better in powder and the FA is a slightly better carver – but these are only subtly so.
3. The PYL has a short effective edge for the length. This is because of a lot of the rocker – so it will feel shorter than the equivalent length of the FA
4. The FA is more setback (30mm) compared with the PYL (10mm). This evens out their powder abilities a little bit.
They aren’t hugely different but have a slightly different feel.
Hope this helps
Hello!
Nate thank for your advice, it was very useful!
I made a mistake, my height is 6’0 (183 cm) not 6’3. I bought PYL 62.
Last weekend I tried its for the first time.
Reference stance (~59 cm) with 1 cm setback, 18/-6 angles, Burton Triad bindings with Burton Classic highbacks.
I was not comfortable with it during first runs, it took some time to understand this board. It is an aggressive board with very fast edge to edge and feels a little bit stiffer than I expected, but softer than Flagship 161 and 164 IMO.
We had 10 cm of fresh snow, PYL floated really well in wide open runs. But in trees I would prefer 159 (but maybe I only need more time with my board) I think that for my weight (170 lbs (77 kg) without equipment) and due to snowboard shape and flex PYL 159 is better choice and 3cm doesn’t signiftly influence on a floating ability.
I need more time with my PYL but any way I like this board.
Last day I tested FA 162 and liked it too. It is very predictable board with forgiveness flex. Next time I will compare FA 159, 162 and Landlord 159.
Hi Valentin
Awesome that you got the chance to test the PYL. Definitely the shorter length will be better in the trees. The extra 3cm will make a difference in powder and for stability at speed on the 162, IMO. But if you did get a chance to test the 159, it would be interesting to hear what your opinion is on the difference.
Also interested to hear what you think of the FA 159 and Landlord 159.
Since you are 6’0 and not 6’3, that would change my range to 159 to 162 for you. That makes a difference – so you might end up preferring the 159. I’m 6’0 (180lbs) and I preferred the 159cm – but I do like shorter boards. Anyway, let me know what you think if you get a chance to test the other sizes.
Great reviews, hoping you could help me narrow it down a little further.
I’m an east coaster that does a couple trips west a year. Spend more time on piste back east but want to get into glades and do more backcountry when I’m out west.
I’m 6’2 and 190 with 11.5/12 boots. Consider myself an intermediate-plus/advanced-life rider.
Currently rolling with a NS Legacy that works well and am happy to keep using it in addition to the new board I’m going to pick up.
Are there any in the above list that you’d recommend for me progressing more into the backcountry and glades that could also be used on the groomers when there isn’t any fresh powder? Was thinking of the PYL but would welcome your insight.
Hey Adam
I think the Jones Flagship 166cm (258mm waist width) or the Yes PYL 165cm (258mm width). I think those would be your best picks for what you’re after and for your height/weight.
Hope this helps
Forgot to mention that I dont often ride switch.
Hey Nate, thanks for this article! Wondering if you can give your opinion on something. I more of a one board quiver kind of guy that mostly rides off peiste, fast down groomers and rarely switch.
I’m after a new board today and I’ve finally nailed my choices down to either the Jones Flagship or the Yes PYL. I prefer the flagships looks but I’m a tech guy and also love the idea of the Yes Tapered Underbite thing they’ve got going on.
If you had to choose one of these two boards as your only board what one would it be? I absolutely love to hear your thoughts.
Cheers!!
Ben
Hey Ben
I would go with the Yes PYL. The PYL is a slightly more diverse ride. Slightly better with jumps and riding switch. But as you say you don’t ride switch that much either would be a good choice but I would say the PYL just.
You can also check out my top 5 aggressive all mountain snowboards post (once I’m finished it – estimated by the end of the month). Will link to that post from here once it’s done.
Thanks for the message. Hope your seasons going well.
Update: Top 6 Aggressive All Mountain Snowboards
Hi Nate,
I’ve been riding for 20+ years and am looking to augment my quiver with a speed demon for bombing groomers. I’m 6 feet tall and weigh 240 lbs, with size 12 boots. I am also a powerlifter, so I am powerful enough to muscle around stiff, aggressive boards. I love the solidity and carving pop of camber.
I have been trying to decide between an A-Frame (167w) or a Flagship (169w), so I am glad to have stumbled upon your site. I just want to get my elbow down and dig deep trenches and bomb groomers at 100+ kms/hr (60 mph).
What would you recommend?
Thanks,
Chris
Hi Chris
Thanks for the message.
Sounds like you definitely need something aggressive, stiff, fast and stable at high speeds.
I would definitely go with the Arbor A-Frame for your purposes. It’s going to be slightly faster and a slightly better carver than the Flagship – in my opinion.
Hope this helps,
Nate
Thanks, man. I appreciate the help.
Hi Nate,
I’m 5 feet 8½ inches, about 163-173 lbs (currently about 167), 9.5 US boot (Ride Lasso, so reduced footprint). Should I choose 156 or 159 PYL? Looking at PYL’s short contact length and effective edge + pretty long nose and tail I think 159 would be a better fit but I’d love to hear your opinion.
Hi Emb
In my opinion the 159 is the best size for you. You’re on the money with that!
Typically you want to size up a bit with freeride boards. You want that extra nose for better float in powder but you still want all that effective edge. You’ve obviously done your research. Nice work!
Haha, thank you Nate, I’m going 159 then 🙂
Hi Nate,
Thanks for the great review. Im trying to decide between the Yes PYL and the Never Summer 25. My main priorities are a board that rides well in powder (especially in tight trees) and carves well on the groomers. A board that handles uneven terrain and chopped up powder well would be a bonus. I’m 6’3″ and weigh 190Lbs with size 10 boots. Im an experienced intermediate-advanced rider. Any advice on which you board you would recommend and what sizes? Thanks
Hi Craig
Thanks for your message.
Both would do the job really well. The advantage of the PYL is that it’s a little bit faster from edge to edge – great in the tight trees) but the advantage of the Twenty Five is that it’s ever so slightly softer flexing which can sometimes make it feel more maneuverable especially if you’re not used to a stiff board. If you’re used to stiff boards, then this wouldn’t be a problem.
But really you can’t go wrong with either.
In terms of sizes, I would go with the following:
YES PYL: 165
Never Summer 25: 162 or you could go with the 165 as well but I think the 162 is probably the best for that board.
For size 10 boots (assuming you are talking about US size 10, you don’t want to go with a wide size)
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Thanks for your website – really informative and a lot of work I’m sure! I’ve been riding for about 5 years, but as I’m based in the UK, its all based around trips to the Alps and Canada.
I’m not really that interested in pipe or park, just want to ride natural stuff, tree lines, jump a bit, carve hard turns in powder and am also obviously stuck on the pistes a fair bit as well (probably 70% of the time if I’m honest). I’m 6’1 and about 180lbs with size 11 feet (using Salomon boots).
I have had a Burton Custom Flying V 162 wide which I bought 2nd hand when I didn’t know any better, but have grown to really dislike it. It doesn’t have enough edge hold on harder pack, feels sketchy at speed, not agile, a bit unresponsive and just not my cup of tea! I didn’t realise how bad it was until I tried my friends Burton custom camber 156 (on harder snow) and whilst I think it’s a little small for me, I didn’t want to get back on my board after that!
So after a lot of moaning, my girlfriend kindly bought me a new board as a present on the advice she was given by a shop and I have now got a Libtech TRS 159. I haven’t got to ride it much at all yet – only a few hours in a Snow dome, but I’m quickly getting the impression its still more of the same style as the Flying V – albeit a better version/ size etc. Not as sharp, grippy and precise as the Custom camber.
As we get so little time on the slopes, I don’t want to waste my next trip away, so was considering buying a second board to take out there and potentially selling the one I like the least when I get back. Having read your reviews, I think the Burton FA sounds like the sort of thing I am looking for. i.e. a bit sharper, grippier and more reliable edge hold and good on piste and in powder with still perhaps just enough flex for learning tricks etc on. I used to be a pro windsurfer and surfed a lot, so really like to feel the edge with some grip and drive through the turn, I’m not into the floaty more relaxed feel as much. But I do want something that has just enough flex to give it some forgiveness and make learning tricks not impossibly difficult – albeit perhaps not as easy as on a board like my TRS.
So…a few of questions….
1. From what I have said above, do you think the FA is a good choice? and
2. If so, what size do you reccomend? I was going to head for the 159 as after my Flying V experience I want something more reactive and nimble underfoot, but do you think I would need to go 162 as I seem to be right on the upper weight limit of the 159?
3. Would there be value in keeping the TRS as a board for messing around and learning tricks on and having the FA (or otherwise) for powder days and faster, carving piste stuff/ hard pack days…?
Thanks for any help you can offer! Really appreciate it.
Hi Adrian
Thanks for your message. A lot of work for sure – especially at this time of the season! But definitely rewarding. I know how much difference the right gear can make and how hard it can be to sift through all the different gear on offer to find the right stuff. I hope that I make that easier for people.
From what you are describing, I think you would get along well with the flight attendant. It’s a mostly camber board but it has rocker in the scooped nose (but no rocker in the tail). So you get that camber type feel but that nose sits nicely above powder for when you encounter it. But if you’re on the groomers you get a great carving board – but one that can float well in powder when you get the chance.
I think the 159W would be the best size for you. Yes you’re on the edge of the weight limit but that’s just a guide. I’m 185lbs (6’0) and rode the 159 and that felt just right for me. Now I rode the 159 rather than the 159W but I have 10.0 boots. The 159 regular width might be a touch narrow for your boots. The 159 ‘wide’ is more of a mid-wide – 260mm waist width – and should be a good width for you.
One thing. The Flight Attendant wouldn’t be my pick in ice if you encounter it a lot. I personally don’t see that much ice so I’m not too worried about that but if you were to see it a lot, then there are better options.
The other thing you could look at, since you liked the feel of the camber, would be to check out the link below. The boards in that list won’t be as good in powder though and will feel a bit more aggressive. But they are something else you could check out – but I think the flight attendant would suit well.
>>My Top 6 Aggressive All Mountain Snowboards
I rate the TRS but I don’t think that it’s the type of board that suits what you mostly like to do. But I think it’s worth keeping because it is a really fun board and like you say would be good for learning tricks on.
Hey Nate, just wanted to say thank you for your response here. As always, so impressed with how much consideration you clearly put into each of your comments. Site is awesome. Keep it up!
Thanks Adrian! You’re very welcome, appreciate your comments. Thanks for the email too, I have replied to that now.
Hi Nate,
Love your snowboard reviews! I’m looking to add a great freeride board to my quiver and would love your advice. I’m an intermediate-advanced rider (riding for 10 years) currently living in SoCal. I mostly ride Mammoth, and local resorts around LA that occasionally see hard/icy snow. I’m 6′ 1″, 215 – 225lbs (currently at 220), and have a size 11.5 boot. Started riding an Arbor Roundhouse form 2007 (all camber board), and have been on a Burton Barracuda for the past few seasons, which I love in powder.
I’m looking for something with a bit more edge hold on hard snow, and stability at high speed. My top choices are the Flagship, Never Summer 25, and the PYL. The XV Magtek looks appealing as well, but I’m concerned it may be a bit too stiff. Really appreciate any advice you have. Thanks!
Hi David
Yeah the XV is very stiff. Some people want their board to be as stiff as they come so it caters to a market but if you’re concerned about it being too stiff, then I’d cross that off the list.
The PYL will be the best in icy conditions and is really versatile in terms of being great in both ice and powder. But it doesn’t sound like you see ice all the time and the Twenty Five and Flagship are both great in hard conditions too. They’ll all really stable at speed so you can’t go wrong with any of them for that.
Sorry if that hasn’t narrowed it down too much further – but I think they would all work well for you.
In terms of sizes I’d say the following would work best:
Jones Flagship: 165W or 166 – the 166 has a 258mm waist width – I think that you would fit your 11.5s on there but it would be cutting it close. If you wanted to play it safer in terms of width, then the 165W is also a good fit.
NS 25: 165 or 166W.The 165 has a 258mm waist width and the 166W has a 268 waist width. I would say you would fit on the 258mm waist width but it’s cutting it close.
YES PYL: 165 (258mm waist width) again cutting it close but I think you’ll squeeze on to that width.
If you can also let me know the size of your current board, then I can also take that into account for sizing – but based on the info I think those sizes are your best bet.
Awesome, thanks so much Nate! I currently ride a Barracuda 165 which has a waist width of 257 mm which works OK, but can get a little tight in terms of toe drag. With that in mind, I’ll probably try to choose between the Flagship 165W and the NS 166W. Thanks again
You’re very welcome. It’s probably a good bet then if you’re cutting tight on the Barracuda.
Nate,
Need some advice. Currently riding an older Arbor Element 161, looking for a new shred stick. I miss my old Volkl Coal, that board was nasty bombing down groomers. Typically board upstate NY and Vermont so I see a variety of conditions. I’m a 10-1/2-11 boot, 5’9 and about 172lbs. A left over A-frame was on the top of my list but ive heard good things on the Flight Attendant the the Yes PYL. Thoughts? Size recommendations? Binding wise I was going with the Genesis and was looking at the Adidas Tactical Boots.
Thanks man.
He Ben
For size I would say the following for the 3 boards you’ve mentioned:
In general I’d say around a 158 to 160 but specifically for those boards I’d say.
Arbor A-Frame: 159W or 162
Burton Flight Attendant: 159W
YES PYL: 162
Though I’d be a bit concerned the 162 might be a bit narrow (251mm waist). You’d probably be o.k. but it’s cutting it close. The 159W is potentially a little too wide but again is probably ok.
The PYL has a shorter effective edge (relative to length) than the other boards so I think it’s better to go longer in that board.
I’m not very familiar with Volkl boards but just quickly doing some research on the Coal, it’s more of a freeride baord – whereas the Arbor Element is more of an all-mountain freestyle board. It sounds like you really want to get back to a freeride type board.
In terms of boots I think the Tactical ADV would be a good match to any of these boards.
In terms of bindings I think that the Genesis would work well with the Flight Attendant but I think the other boards would be better off with a stiffer flexing binding. Even the Flight Attendant is probably better with something a bit stiffer. Not that you couldn’t use the Genesis on them but I think there are better matches.
Check out the following posts if you want to look at some binding options that are stiffer/more responsive than the Genesis.
~ Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
~ Top 5 Freeride Bindings
Hope this helps.
Hi Nate,
Hope all is well.
Im in a similair situtation as the guy above, very similair which is crazy. I ride mostly Vermont but the conditions are mostly hard pack on days where there is no POW. I have an 11 boot, but in Burton so the footprint isnt as bad and im about 170lbs, 5’10. I have an opportunity to get a left over Arbor but its a 166, I typically ride a 162 so that might be screaming big for me, thoughts? If you agree that its too big then between the Rossi Magtek and the Yes PYL which do you think is a better board all around and similar to a arbor A-frame?
Cheers and thanks for your input!
Hi Chris
I think the 166 would be too long, especially if you are used to a 162. 4cms can make a big difference. I think around that 161-162 length for this type of board is a good size for you (though it depends on the particular board).
I think that the PYL is a better board all round but the Rossi XV is probably more similar to the A-Frame.
In terms of sizes I would go with the following depending on the option you go with:
YES PYL: 162cm
Rossi XV: 163cm
Hi Nate,
First I’d like to say that your reviews and advice are awesome! You’ve been a big help thus far.
I’m currently debating between the Burton FA and the Never Summer 25. I’m an advanced rider that focuses mostly on carving, speed and playing in the backcountry/trees. I currently ride a Rossignol Angus 161 and while I’ve enjoyed it on the groomers, it struggles in powder and very steep terrain due to the twin shape and my wide stance (I’m 6’2″ with very long legs). I find that I lean too far towards the front of the board on steeps and can’t seem to get much float in powder.
I’m partial at the moment to the NS 25, but I need some help with the length. As I mentioned, I’m 6’2 and 160 lbs, with long legs (33″ inseam) and a fairly wide stance (widest possible on my Angus). My boot size is 11. I was thinking I’d go with the 160 but I wanted to get your opinion. My other thought was the 162 or perhaps even the 165.
Thanks!
Nick
Hi Nick
Thanks for your comments.
First of all, I think you will really appreciate the difference between the Angus and whichever of the FA or the 25 that you go with, given how you describe how you like to ride. They’re both setback a good bit further than Angus so you should find that really helps with keeping back on the board. In general both of these boards are made for powder and steeps and freeriding in general whereas the Angus is an all-mountain board.
The FA and Twenty Five will be noticeably better and require less effort in powder, will be better carvers and be more stable at speed.
In terms of size for the Twenty-Five, I’d go with the 162. It will give you a bit more nose with your long legs/wide stance and I think that’s the right size for your style and ability too. You could go 165 but I think that would be pushing it for being too long. With size 11s I think you’ll fit fine width-wise on the 162.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
Thank you so much. This is really helpful.
I agree the 165 will be too long. My only concern with the 162 is with my weight. I noticed that NS doesn’t publish a weight chart but I found this on evo.com – http://www.evo.com/never-summer-snowboard-size-chart.aspx. Not sure how accurate this is, but based on this chart, I’d be more in the middle of the range weight wise with the 160. Do you think it matters that much?
Sorry to bug you again, but for $599, I just want to make sure I get this right!
Thanks again!
Nick
Hey Nick
Definitely want to make sure to get it right when you’re spending that kind of money!
I think that those weight recommendations on evo are a good guideline but I wouldn’t look too much into it if you’re not right in the middle as there are other factors. Also, you will have a few extra pounds on you with all your snowboarding gear on.
Cool, sounds good! Thanks so much and enjoy the season!
Hi, I’m 5’6 and 125 lbs and a basic ski mountain boarder. I think they call it mountaineer. My board is old and I need new one. What is best size I should look for? I presently have a 149 K2 board (pretty old). Thanks for any advice! Sandy
Hi Sandy
Thanks for your message. It sounds like you are an all-mountain rider. I would say you should go for something around the 147cm to 148cm range. The boards in this list are quite advanced and aggressive boards. If you need some ideas for some other board options that are a bit more easy going, then check out the following links.
~ Top Snowboards Lists
From the link above I think your best bets would be the “All-Mountain” and “All-Mountain-Freestyle” lists.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
awesome Reviews – great work. I really enjoyed reading your reviews.
I was wondering if you could help me out in deciding on a new board, as you have been quite thorough in your feedback. I would appreciate it.
Now i try keeping it short. Me, 6’4″, 210 lbs, shoe size US13, maybe 10 snow days a season but a rider since 15 years. so experienced but no expert.
Currently riding a complete mispurchase aka a Nitro Team Gullwing Wide 153, which is super small.
I would like to ride as much powder as possible but will have entire days on piste / groomers, too. I am not a speed monster but heres the catch, i am not sure if its me or the equipment as the 153 gullwing is not the greatest at higher speeds, uneven terrain or icy terrain making me feel super uncomfortable.
Not spending any time on rails, park, jumps and stuff so thats not important for me. Not a big switch rider either, i also ride a directional stance.
I was looking at the Jones Flagship 165W or even 169W. With the 169 it might be too much of a change for me with the higher stiffness and +16cm length but maybe required for my specs.
Maybe you could help me out in regards to Boardtype + length. Out of your reviews the Never Summer 25 sounds quite interesting, too.
Thank you!
Norman
Hi Norman
First of all, I agree that your Nitro Team Gullwing 153cm is way too small for you. I’d like to see you on something around a 166cm give or take a couple of centimeters.
The Gullwing being that small will certainly affect your stability at speed and you edge-hold in icy conditions. Given your specs, that size of a board would feel very soft and unstable, I imagine.
A freeride board definitely sounds like the way to go for you, based on your riding style.
I think the Flagship would be a good choice – I also think that you could get on the 165W and I think that would be the best size for you. I think it would be wide enough for your boots – it would be on the narrower side of wide enough but still wide enough and is the kind of board that would suit your style and ability.
The Twenty Five is also a good option for you, I think.
If you were to go with the Twenty Five the 166W would be your best bet, IMO.
Hope this helps.
Hi Nate,
thank you alot for your reply. This has helped a ton confirming my choice with the flagship. I was not entirely sure as weather in the Alps can get quite icy but also squishy. Its very heavy snow in general not light soft powder conditions you can find close to the seaside.
I might have one more question though:
Could you also recommend a binding that works with the flagship? I mounted a Raiden Blackhawk on the Gullwing so I am looking for replacement, too.
Maybe Union?
Thank you!
Hi Norman
I like Union bindings so they’re definitely an option for the flagship. If you did go Union I think the following would be good options for the Flagship:
~ Union T Rice
~ Union Ultra Forged Carbon
~ Union Atlas
~ Union Force
Now it obviously depends on your budget too (Forged Carbons very expensive) but I’d say the Forged Carbon and the Travis Rice would be best but the Atlas and Force are cheaper and would still be a suitable match with the Flagship.
For other options check out the links below.
~ My Top 5 Freeride Bindings
~ My Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
Hopefully this gives you some options to look into
Looking at the yes pyl board. I am 5’10, 195 lbs size 10 Nike boot. I rode a 162 friend of mines board. That was nice, but maybe too long. I do like to attempt jumps intermediate level from time to time and occasionally ride switch. Do you think the 159 or 160w. Would be the better choice for me? Would the extra width help or hurt me. Currently ride a k2 subculture 156
Hi Carson
For this type of board – and particularly for the PYL – it’s good to size up. But coming from a 156 and a less aggressive type of board, I think the 159cm would be enough of a size up for you.
The extra width and slight bit of extra length of the 160W would give you more stability on landings and a bit more stability at speed and float in powder. The trade off though is that it will also not be as quick from edge-to-edge and will feel less maneuverable.
I have size 10 boots and personally I don’t like riding wider boards, but some do. I actually rode the 159 and it was the perfect size for me (though I do have slightly different but not far differnt specs – 185lbs, 6’0″, size 10 boot).
So the extra width helps in some ways and hurts in other ways. It comes down to what you value more. The 159 certainly isn’t narrow for a size 10 – it’s about right, IMO.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Great reviews and honest opinions. First time I’ve been on the site but I’m pretty impressed.
Too go along with what everyone else is asking I’d like your opinion on my next board choice. I haven’t narrowed it to this field specifically but they are all pretty close to what I’d like to be riding next. Currently I ride a lib tech 163W with magna trac almost exclusively at mammoth. I’m a big guy, 6’2″, 220-230 and with size 12 feet. My board now has a waist width about 262mm which works fine.
That being said, I like the idea of maybe the FA but whichever of these boards I choose, I want to make sure it can hang on my upcoming trip to Silverton. I’m pretty much convinced that my current board won’t hang up there, suggestions?
Thanks,
Phil
Hi Phil
Thanks for your message.
If you’re wanting something with similar edge-hold to magne-traction, then the YES PYL or the Rossi XV will give you that kind of edge-hold. If that’s something you want to steer away from, then The Burton Flight Attendant is the least grippy on this list. The NS Twenty Five and Jones Flagship are in between.
Based on your info, then sizing wise I think the following would be the best sizes for you for the boards on this list.
YES PYL: Probably not really an appropriate size
Burton Flight Attendant: 162W or you could stretch out to 168 but that might feel quite long after being used to a 163W
NS 25: 163W or 166W
Jones Flagship: 162W or 165W
Rossi XV: 164W
In general I would suggest something around the 165 to 167 range in terms of length for this type of board. But if you feel you would be more comfortable closer to the 163 that you’re used to then that size, give or take, would work for you as well.
Hope this answers your questions
Hi!
I’m about to buy the YES PYL, but don’t know what size to pick, choosing between the 162 and 165. I’ve read through the other answers and the rest of the internet but I’m still not certain.
I’m 195lbs, 6’3″, size 9.5 boot, 12″ boot length.
Which one do I pick? 165 too wide for my feet? 162 better fit, more versatile?
Thank you for your help 🙂
Hi Emil
Thanks for your message.
I can see why it’s a tough call. I’d say for length that the 165cm is probably better – but, like you say, that is getting on the wide side for 9.5s.
I think neither would be a bad choice – but I’m not sure what the best choice is.
The effective edge on the PYL is shorter as a ratio to the overall length than your typical board – it has this long scooping nose. So for that reason I would say that the length of the 165 is better – because your getting more of that effective edge. For example the effective edge on the PYL 165cm is 123cm and on the Burton Flight Attendant 162cm it’s 124cm and on the Never Summer Twenty Five 162cm it’s 123cm (to compare a couple of other freeride boards). So that’s why the 165 definitely for length.
For width for a 9.5 boot I’d say that something from a 247mm waist to a 253mm waist is ideal but 255mm (on the 162) would be fine. 258mm (on the 165) isn’t like massively wide for you but a bit wider than ideal.
If you go with the 162 it will be more maneuverable, quicker from edge-to-edge, better in the trees.
If you go with the 165 it will float better in powder, be more stable at speed and more stable on landings.
That’s not to say that the 162 won’t float well in powder – it definitely will – and it’s not to say that the 165 will be slow edge-to-edge – that’s definitely not the case but the different sizes will be better and worse at different aspects.
Hope that gives you something else to go off.
Hi,
This is just the review I was looking for, thank you.
Currently I am using a very old (you should be able to tell my age) Nitro Supernatural Samurai LTD, do you know it ? If you are young, you may not have heard of it (google it you should find a little bit of info).
I love that board but its time to upgrade… Been boarding for 20 years, mostly around Europe, not into freestyle just freeride/all mountain.. some ice, some powder and some groomers. I’ve been recomended the Rossi Magetk which I hope to demo, any others ?
Many thanks for your time.
Hi Ernie
Thanks for your message. I’m not familiar with the Nitro Supernatural Samurai LTD but I did do a quick bit of research on it and it sounds like the kind of board that would belong on this list – so I think you’re in the right place.
All of the boards in this list will be great for powder. The Rossi XV and the YES Pick Your Line are the best picks for icy conditions. The Flight Attendant, Pick Your Line and the Twenty Five are probably the best on groomers (IMO). But all these boards do pretty well on groomers to be honest.
I think anything in this list will suit your purposes. If you do encounter a fair bit of ice then the Rossi XV or the YES PYL are your best bets, IMO.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
First off, great webpage. I have been spending days looking on different webpages for the right equipment and then I found this page that seems to perfectly summarize my research. Its outlinged so well I think I may have to start with your page on boots/bindings.
I guess like everyone else, if you have a few minutes, I would really appreciate your recomendation. Up until a few minutes ago I was all ready to buy the 162 Yes PLY. I guess my indecisiveness got the better of me because I was going to buy it last night but thought I would sleep on it since it is such a large purchase for me. Unfortunately I think that size sold out and I’m out of luck.
I am 5’11” about 200lbs and about a size 10 shoe. I live in northern CA and while we normally have pretty good snow, I do try to push the season and often find myself up the moutain in the Spring with often with hard, or almost icy conditions. The vast majority of my riding is on steep groomers and so I really value speed, carving, and turn itiation. As I improve, I would like to expand more into the backcountry but even then, my wife is a skiier that really prefers the piste so that is where I will find myself the vast majority of the time.
My thoughts:
Yes PYL ($600) – Seems perfect, but I cant find a 162 anywhere, thoughts on my sizing and if it would be worth going for a 159 or 165?
Burton Flight Attendant ($500) – you and several others mention that I doesn’t hold an edge well under hard or icy conditions. Is this something I’m going to struggle with or is this more of people nit-picking to differentiate high end boards?
Never Summer ($600) doesnt seem worth the extra 100 over the Burton if you think the edge hold on harder snow wasnt too big of a deal.
Jones Flagship – Too many reviews just say that it becomes painful to ride in the end-of-day resort snow.
OTHER
Arbor A-Frame – I really just wanted your thoughts on it since a local shop has a 159W 2014/2015 for like $380. This seems like a great deal what is potentially a pretty good board that is more designed for groomers than true freeride, but at 60% of the price of the PLY, if it fits me well, I do spend 80%+ of my time on piste.
Sorry for the wall of text, I have just never spent this much on a toy and it makes me nervoius. Do you have any personal recomendations.
Thanks again for your time and I really appriceate the help and webpage all togehter.
Dom
Hi Dominick
Thanks for your message.
I think you are looking in the right place (in terms of freeride boards). You could also look at aggressive all mountain boards, but if you are looking to get into the backcountry at some point, then a freeride board is a better option.
In terms of the PYL, unfortunately I think the 162 would be the best size for you for that board. I feel the 165 would be slightly too long and the 159 too short. I did find a 162 here though – http://www.tactics.com/yes/pick-your-line-snowboard – I think this would be a good option for you.
Flight Attendant – I wouldn’t want it if I was always in hard and icy conditions but if you spend most of your time in good conditions I wouldn’t let that be a big put off. I would say it’s ok in hard and not good in icy.
Twenty Five – You get the extra edge-hold and it’s a great board. I think this would be a good choice for you – but it’s up to you whether you think it’s worth the price.
A-Frame – I would class this as a freeride board and will be good in powder too. But I don’t think you should go for a wide size as you’ll loose some response and maneuverability. I wouldn’t go for that size unless you had at least 11.5 boots.
Totally understandable that you want to get it right when investing that kind of money. If the PYL 162 at the link above is sold-out by the time you get there or decide to go for one of the other options for whatever reason, let me know and I can let you know what I think is the best size for those boards.
Hope this helps
Thank you so much for both the insight and especially for taking the time to track down the board for me. I looked for a while and don’t know how I missed that webpage. I ordered that PLY right away so now I just have to be patient and wait for them to send it to me 🙂
I was thinking about picking up a Union T.Rice and while they seem favorable on other sites, you don’t mention them. Have you had any experience with these as compared to the Ride El Hefe and the Salomon Quantum? I’m trying to find a good set under like $350.
And finally, for boots (still undecided if i get a new pair this year), Do you think they are something where I need to get into the store to try on and not buy online? I kind of feel like boots are a lot more personal comfort as when compared to a board. Unfortunately the only boarding shop we have locally is an REI and the only set of stiff boots they have is a Solomon Synapse Focus so there is not a lot of options. Do you have any recommendations on how to figure out what is best for me other than driving around the state stopping at whatever shops I can and then trying to compare feelings between multiple days?
Anyways, thanks again for all of your help!
Dom
Hi Dom
You’re very welcome.
I do rate the T.Rice – just that I have them under a different category (that I added this year and haven’t gotten around to adding that category to the menu – one of many things on the list to do!).
You can check out my top 5 All Mountain Freeride (the new category) bindings at the link below. These bindings are what I consider to be good for freeride but that are also versatile enough to dial down a bit and ride more all-mountain. They’ve got a bit more forgiveness but are still responsive. You’ll see the T.Rice on the list there.
~ My Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
Preferably, I think it’s a good idea if you can try boots on in person. That way you know if that particular boot will fit well with your feet. Boards and bindings can be bought unseen and unless you actually go to a mountain to demo them (where you usually can’t buy anyway so you’d buy online afterwards) there’s very little advantage to going into a store. But for boots – foot, ankle and calf shapes can differ quite a bit so it is a good idea, if possible to try in store – but that said, the supply in store is still always limited compared to online (as you’re experiencing!).
One thing that you can do (if you have the finance to do so) is to buy a few pairs of boots (making sure that the online store’s return policy allows you to send the ones you don’t pick back) and try them on and send back the ones you don’t need. Failing that, you could try in store the brands that you are thinking of buying and go off that – usually a brand will have a certain fit. So if you have a pair of boots in mind and they don’t have them in store but they have other boots of that brand, you could try on the other boots and then go online and buy the boots that you want in that same brand. If that makes sense.
Hopefully this gives you a few options
Hey Nate,
I just wanted to thank you again for all your help, I picked up the PYL and a set of Union T.Rice bindings a few weeks and have been having a blast on them! Unfortunately, the bolt in the Union bindings broke on the second day when the bolt holding the heel strap ripped through the plastic. I was able to return them (amazon is awesome) , but now I cant decide if I should give Union another chance or if I should try something else.
Currently the Burton X-Base is on sale at REI (400ish after member dividend) and is subsequently about the same price as the Genesis-X. Have you had much experience comparing these two directly? While a positive, the ultra-light weight build isn’t as important to me as the overall feel of the experience. Because my first set of high end bindings was so poor with the Unions breaking on me right away, I’m kind of leaning towards utilizing REI’s “we return anything within a year for any reason” policy and getting the X-base but even on sale they are super expensive so I just wanted to check in on your opinion between the two Burtons since they are not directly compared on your bindings page.
Thanks again and have a great day,
Dominick
Hi Dominick
Sorry to hear that your T.Rice bindings broke so soon – but glad to hear you were able to return them.
Unfortunately I haven’t had the chance to directly compare the Genesis X and the X Base. I would normally say go Genesis-X because for the price difference I think they are the better option. But if you can get them for similar prices then it’s a different case.
Both bindings are quite stiff but the X Base feel slightly stiffer in my opinion. I think the Genesis X high back might actually be slightly stiffer but they just don’t feel quite as stiff while riding (I would say it’s something to do with that hammock high back). This is something that I like personally and they keep roughly the same amount of responsiveness. The X Base are super light and are pretty much what Burton made as there “This is the best binding that we can make” binding.
I have the Genesis X in my all-mountain-freeride bindings list (rather than my freeride bindings list) but they are also perfectly suitable for freeriding.
Probably a good call going with that return policy, given your experience – and when investing that kind of money. I’ve never had issues with Union bindings breaking like that, so I suspect it was a dodgy pair – but I do tend to only demo bindings for no more than a day, which is why durability isn’t something I comment on in my reviews. But if it was a second day break, then I imagine there was something wrong with that particular pair. So I wouldn’t say not to go Union because of that – I think the T.Rice are great but totally get that you may not want to try another pair of those! The Ultra FC would be another Union option if you were willing to give them a go. I really like the Ultra FCs but they aren’t cheap either – around the same price as the X Base. I would say the Ultra FCs have a slightly less ankle supportive feel than the Genesis X and X Base – that can be a good thing or bad thing depending on how much ankle support you want.
Hope this helps and hope that you have better luck with your next pair! Glad to hear you are loving the PYL.
hey, im also looking at the PYL 162. i am 5″10″ and 210 lbs.
im coming from a gnu riders choice 161.5 and was looking for a more freeride board(no park no switch)
would the 162 be too short for me? seems all the charts for every snowboard are on the low side for weight. what would it feel like if i rode a board too short for my weight?
Hi Phil
I do find a lot of the weight recommendations are on the low side. I definitely go somewhat by weight recommendations of boards but I don’t use them as a hard and fast rule.
I think the 162 would be a good size for you but I think the 165 would work as well.
I probably normally wouldn’t say to go as long as 165 – but in the case of the PYL I think it would be suitable. The reason for this is that it has a relatively short effective edge as a ratio to the length. For example – on your current board (The Rider’s Choice), the effective edge is 1220mm. The effective edge on the PYL 162 is 1205mm. The effective edge on the 165 is 1230mm. So the 162 PYL actually has an effective edge that’s 15mm shorter than your current board and the 165 PYL has an effective edge that’s 10mm longer.
That’s not to say that the 162 is the wrong size for you – I just wanted to put that into perspective.
One of the big reasons that the PYL is this way is that it has a long scooped nose (which is a big reason it’s so good in powder) which counts towards it’s overall length but not it’s effective edge.
So I think you’re right on the cusp of the 2 sizes.
But here’s some things that you might want to consider to help with your decision.
~ The 162 will likely feel slightly softer flexing (this is typically one of the effects of being above the weight recommendations) than the 165
~ The 162 will be a little bit more nimble, just a bit more maneuverable – and for this reason a bit better in trees overall
~ The 165 will be that little bit more stable at speed (though the 162 isn’t going to be unstable – this board is made for speed) and float a little bit better in powder
I’d say the main thing that riding a board too short for your weight does is soften up the flex a little bit. The PYL is already pretty stiff – but if you don’t want to loose any of that stiffness then the 165 would be the better option.
I take it that you won’t need a wide board, given that you currently ride the Rider’s Choice 161.5 but if you could let me know your boot size, I could also factor that in – maybe that would be a tie breaker.
Hope this helps
i wear size 10 burton imperials(reduced footprint) so i think i would be ok.
im almost about to pull the trigger on the PYL, only other board i was considering was the rossignol one magtek. but i think the PYL would give me more of a freeride board and the rossi is pretty similiar to my riders choice as an all mountain. so having 2 boards the PYL would give me more range as a 2 board quiver.
hopefully i like the different camber profile of the PYL. Id be going from c2btx(hybrid rocker) to camrock(hybrid camber) …. i think i got that right. and i read in reviews that the PYL does take some getting used to. and doesnt do well if you skid turns. im an intermediate plus rider and want to bomb more but i felt that the riders choice got a bit unstable at speeds and i held back.
Hi Phil
You will definitely be ok with your boots not being too wide. But in terms of best fit, I think that the 255mm waist is a better fit for your boots. The 258mm isn’t too much wider and it’s not overly wide for you – but I think you’ll just get that marginally better leverage on the 162 (255 waist). It wouldn’t be a deal breaker for choosing size but it’s one other thing to consider.
Whilst I think the One Mag is a different board than the Rider’s Choice in a few ways, you’re right in saying that the PYL/Rider’s Choice combo gives you more range in your quiver than the One/Rider’s Choice combo. I’d go with PYL/Rider’s Choice because they are very different boards – with the One sitting somewhere in between the 2 (but a little closer to the Rider’s Choice).
It always takes a bit of getting used to a different board – and going from Hybrid Rocker to Hybrid Camber is a different feel – but it doesn’t take too long. I rode a Hybrid Rocker for my first few seasons snowboarding and the first Hybrid Camber I rode felt weird for about half a day and then I got used to it and liked it. Demoing boards all the time I’m used to pretty much every profile now but I don’t really have a favorite – I do think that different profiles work better for certain things though and I like the C2BTX on the Rider’s Choice but I also like that Camrock – and to be honest I don’t think the PYL would work with a hybrid rocker. You’ll need to get used to the extra stiffness and the setback stance as well – but once you do you’ll appreciate those things for the types of things you want to do on the PYL.
The PYL is certainly a more technically demanding board and performs best when your turns are smooth. But if you are carving or even swarving on it you get the rewards for sure! You’ll notice a big difference in powder performance, carving performance and stability at speed. It sounds like you’re prepared for the board being different, which is good. As long as you understand that and take your time to get used to it, the PYL will reward your efforts
went with the PYL and got 8 days on it in Whistler Blackcomb that include a day of heliboarding and a day of catboarding. awesome board. just what i was looking for. definitely charges harder than my riders choice and it more stable. good on icy conditions. was good enough in waist deep powder in the backcountry. thanks for the help
You’re very welcome Phil.
Awesome that you found what you were looking for and that you’ve been able to give it a good work out! Out of curiosity, what size did you go with in the end?
i went with a 162
Hey Phil
Thanks for letting me know. I think that was a good choice – hope you have an awesome rest of your season!
Hi Nate, thanks for taking a minute.
I’m wondering if you’ve ridden a nidecker megalight in the last couple years, and your impression. I have a chance to get last year’s in excellent condition.
I’ve been riding a year and a half now, about 35 days, and want to get a new board. My style is still developing, but all-mountain to freeride probably best describes where I’m at. Definitely looking at other boards, too.
5’10 and 170, probably close to 180 geared up–I have learned on an older megalight 164. I’m wanting to drop to 158.
I like to bomb on piste and spend a lot of time in the trees. Often packed snow here in spokane. I try to work in jumps n stuff but not really ever going to be a park rider or spend much time switch–I practice it, and like, spinning, but mostly to make sure I can get back to dominant side. I’ve read your top picks, and others, and definitely will take advice on what you think are good choices as well. It looks like if I go with the megalight I’d pretry much have to always hand-tune the board; everything I’ve read says machine tuning would take the “ultimate grip” right off the board. I read these boards to be big in Europe, almost unknown here in the u.s. Thanks for any input you might have.
Hi Kenny
Thanks for your message. I haven’t ridden the Nidecker Megalight – Nidecker isn’t a brand I typically demo. But from what I know of it, I’d say that it’s certainly not a board for beginners (not that you are one now but learning on it would have been tricky – so well done!) and especially in a 164 – IMO way too long for your specs – especially when you were a beginner! I would say around that 158cm is a much better size for you.
But I wouldn’t necessarily go with the Megalight. It does have a good reputation for riding in icy conditions – so if you encounter a lot of those, then that’s a plus for it. It’s supposed to have great float in powder too – which I think is this boards best feature. Decent on groomers too. Now that you’ve done 35 days and are obviously use to the stiffer flex of it, the 158cm will probably feel easy to ride for you.
I don’t know anything about the Ultragrip edges or how to tune them, so I can’t really comment on that – sounds like a hassle to me though.
So, I wouldn’t say no to Megalight at all – the 158cm will be an improvement anyway. But I would also look at the boards in the link below for other options. What are the other boards you were considering?
~ Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
Thanks! Pretty cool to be able to reach out get your input. For other boards I’d be looking at the obvious choices: flagship, pyl, flight attendant, and maybe the mountain twin. The xv magtek sounds less forgiving than I would like.
Typical conditions for me on piste are packed or groomed packed, to a few inches of new snow. My home mountain will usually hold pockets of powder, especially in the trees–kinda why I would like to shorten the board. And i do look for that powder…so the board has to be good in powder.
Anyway, one board to rule them all, I guess. Especially when I have the chance to travel–once a year or so– it’s a freeride board.
So I’m weighing a 2014 megalight against brand-new boards. I also want to look around after the season for a decent used board more suitable for buttering, switch, jumps and stuff. Just for the practice.
I read of guys saying how much they prefer the m/l to the flagship, but those posts are all at least two years old.
Skill or technique-wise it’s hard for me to call; my bro-in-law said I was solidly intermediate before the end of last season. He’s an advanced, freeride only boarder…like hardplates and all. That said, I haven’t yet seen big mountain terrain, and am looking for the board for my everyday, and for that next step. Maybe a little forgiving, I work hard on technique, but am still learning.
Thanks a lot, man.
Hi Kenny
If you’re wanting something that’s a little more forgiving, then I would say that all-mountain list is a good place to look. Those boards that are in that medium and up to medium-stiff flex range and with a not overly aggressive camber profile. But you could certainly still look at the likes of freeride boards. From this list, I think the best options would be the Burton Flight Attendant and Never Summer Twenty Five – just to get something that’s a little bit more forgiving.
A lot of all-mountain boards are very good in powder as well – maybe not as good as a freeride board but still float really well.
Like I say, I’m not that familiar with the Megalight, so that’s still an option.
Definitely a good idea to look for a separate board for learning more freestyle oriented stuff like switch, jumps, spins, buttering etc. That way you can get a board that’s suited to that style – and you can size down a bit on that board too, which is good for freestyle, without having to compromise on your all-mountain/freeride length.
I think your on the right track – now that hard part – choosing which one!
Hi Nate,
Great post! There isn’t many places that will show write specifically about freeride sticks and most of them are more backcountry powder boards oriented.
I’m looking into buying a new board this season as mine is pretty banged and I already repaired it twice this season. I’m currently riding a Signal Sierra, John Jackson’s pro model in 156. I really love the board, is super light, snappy and lots of pop, but I feel like this board is mostly made for softer conditions as it doesn’t handle the ice that well.
Although I’m not a huge freestyler myself, I like to throw some 180s here and there and try some tricks around the hill, but my favourite thing are double blacks, trees and drops. So I’m looking for a board that can handle all that, and I don’t really know where to go, as my budget this year isn’t that big. I looked up these models: Ride Berzerker, Jones Aviator or Ultra Aviator, Jones Mtn Twin, and Rossignol XV Magtek, LibTech The Greenest and TRS. The thing is, since I tried Magne-Traction, I feel like any board that doesn’t have it is gonna make me slip on the ice… I’ve never rode anything super stiff so I’m not sure about the Rossi, but it just looks like such a beast that I kind of want to know how it feels to ride it.
What would you recommend in this case? Also I live in Canada so I would need a shop what would ship things here.
Sorry for the super long post Nate! I’m also a gear fan and I really enjoy reading all your stuff!
Thanks in advance!
Hey Jaime
Thanks for your message – and nice to meet a fellow gear head!
To start with, from this list, the YES PYL and the Rossi XV are the best in icy conditions. I would say that the PYL would suit your needs better out of those 2, overall.
I’d probably say no to the Ride Berzerker (because it’s not likely to be an improvement over your Sierra in terms of grip on ice. Also, I’d probably write off the TRS – great in icy conditions but not so good for stability at speed or in powder.
Your softest flexing option out of those you listed would be the Jones Mountain Twin (medium flex). I would say that it and the Aviator and the Greenest are all about a 4/5 in icy conditions. The Greenest has magen-traction but it’s really mellow compated to a lot of other Lib Tech boards. But all those boards will do fine in ice just not amazing. The Greenest is however kind of a freestyle oriented freeride board, so it would likely be a good option all round. That said, the Mountain Twin is quite freestyle oriented too – it’s what I would categorize as all-mountain. However, it’s pretty good in powder.
I think the PYL would be heading the list for you, IMO. It’s a great freeride board and I’d say 5/5 in icy conditions. The Greenest would probably be the next option. It only comes in the size but it’s a 157cm which is probably fine for you if you’re used to the 156. For the PYL, I would say that for the PYL you could go 156cm or even 159cm (but I’m not sure of your height/weight so I’m not sure).
The other option that I would look into is the Capita Kazu Kokubo Pro. It’s like a good powder board but really a powder-freestyle ride. It’s quick edge-to-edge and really nice in the trees. It’s also really light and snappy and it sounds like you really like that about your John Jackson Sierra. It’s again probably in that 4/5 range of icy conditions, IMO. I’m working on my review for it and I’ll post the link to it here once I’ve published it.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
at first this is a great site and thank you for answering all requests!!!
So I want to buy a Yes PYL 162 or 165 but I´m not sure wich size. At the moment a ride a Atomic Axum 159 2012, it has an effective edge of 1250mm, camber profile with little rocker in nose and tail and a mid flex. At 70% I´m on groomers and 30% of piste but the Axum float only a little bit and with many effort. I´m 183 cm and geared up between 81 kg and 87kg (with backpack) and wear boot size US 11 (Northwave Decade). What do you thing would be the right size for me, especially with my boot size/weight and would the flex of the 162 be softer than the 165?
Many thanks in advance !
Hi Matthew
Thanks for your message.
I think on balance the 162cm will be your best bet. But you could also ride the 165cm. The effective edge on the PYL is 1205mm at 162cm and 1230mm at 165cm. So even if you went for the 165cm you would be reducing your current effective edge. The reason for this is the long scooped, rockered nose on the PYL. This nose helps for float in powder.
So I think no matter which one you choose you will get better (and more effortless) float than you are on your current board. You would just need to weigh up a few things:
~ The 162 will likely feel slightly softer flexing than the 165 but it’s a pretty stiff deck so it will still feel quite stiff
~ The 162 will be a little bit more nimble, just a bit more maneuverable – and for this reason a bit better in trees overall
~ The 165 will be that little bit more stable at speed (though the 162 isn’t going to be unstable – this board is made for speed) and float a little bit better in powder (but the 162 will still be great in powder and a definite improvement over the Axum, IMO)
The other thing is that you’ll be going up from a 159cm (albeit one with a longer effective edge) and the transition to a 162cm might be easier than to the 165cm.
So overall I think the 162cm but the 165cm would also work – it will partly depend on what you value the most in your riding and also what you feel you will be comfortable with.
The only other consideration though would be the width. With size 11s I think you would be fine on the 162 (255mm waist width) but it would be on the narrow side (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing unless you were to get toe or heel drag – but I don’t think it would be an issue). I think you’d be fine but the width on the 165 would be a slightly safer bet.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Hi Nate,
This top 5 list is extremely helpful. Thanks for putting it together. I’m looking to upgrade from my Burton Process Flying V and would love some input.
I live in Colorado and mainly ride Summit County, Steamboat, etc. If I could stay in the powder and trees all day, I would. But being a weekend warrior, I don’t get to pick the conditions. I don’t mind bombing groomers, but if I can find a place to pull off into the trees, I’m going to. I don’t mess around in the park or ride switch, but I do like to do some natural jumps when available.
Based on the information in your reviews, I’m leaning towards the never summer 25 (I’d like to try something besides burton). Do you think I’m moving in the right direction or should I be looking at something else?
I’m 6 foot, 200 pounds with a size 12 boot. Any recommendations on sizing would be appreciated as well. Thanks!
Hi John
From what you’re describing, I think you would enjoy the Twenty Five – it would be a good transition up from the Process Flying V too, especially for the style you describe.
In terms of sizing I would say that the 163X (that’s the wide version – 265mm waist width – which would suit your size 12s well) would be a great size for you. This may or may not be a size up from your current board, but in general for freeride boards like this you do tend to go a little bit longer. I put you on about a 162 standard “all-mountain” length so I think the 163 would go well for this board for you.
Hope this answers your questions and helps with your decision
Thanks for the info, Nate! My Burton is a 159, which seems to be a little undersized, but has performed pretty well for my first board.
Any major reason to consider the Jones Mountain Twin or the Slash Brainstorm over this board based on the information above? My main concern is good float in the powder and quick turns in the trees. Thanks again!
Hi John
I think you’ll get way more out of the Twenty Five for what you describe. Going with the Mountain Twin or Brainstorm – or any other good all-mountain board would be a good idea if you were wanting to ride switch and ventured into the park now and then – in addition to riding at speed, off piste/backcountry, trees etc. They’re more do-it-all kinds of boards.
But you’ll get better powder performance and carving etc out of the Twenty Five – you sacrifice on switch and for jibbing but if you don’t do those things, then there’s no downside.
I’d say that the Twenty Five is faster edge-to-edge than the Mountain Twin and similar to the Brainstrom but maybe slightly faster than the Brainstorm still. If you were to size down a bit that (say to the 159W) that would speed it up edge-to-edge even more but you would sacrifice a little bit of float in powder and stability at speed. But the Twenty Five is already pretty quick edge to edge and on balance I still think the 163W would be the best size for you. But if those quick turns are the most important thing for you, then you could consider the 159W.
But I’d definitely go Twenty Five or another freeride board over an all-mountain board for you.
Thanks Nate! Sorry for all of the back and forth on this, but these things aren’t cheap and I want to make the right decision 🙂
Is the Never Summer 25 forgiving/playful enough that I can just cruise and mess around on groomers or do I always need to be pushing it? I do a good bit of riding with my wife and friends, so I don’t always want to be on a 100% of the time. A little lazy, right?
If I always need to push it on the 25, is there another board I should look at with quick turns in the trees, lots of float, and more playful on the groomers?
That’s the last question, I promise.
Hi John
I totally get the need to get the decision on gear right – that’s the main purpose of this website! And I do find that a bit of back and forth is needed to get to the best possible choice.
I’d say you can slow it down and cruise to an extent but definitely not as much as you can on your current board. It has a taperered directional shape and a flex that isn’t super stiff but still pretty stiffer – significantly stiffer than your current board. It will want to charge most of the time. Going with a shorter version would negate that somewhat though. Part of the want to fly down the mountain is in the length too.
One option would be something like the NS West if you wanted to stay Never Summer. It’s a lot easier to slow down and cruise with but still pretty good in powder and for carving (not as good as the Twenty Five but equal to the Process Flying V and in between Twenty Five and Process Flying V in terms of Carving and stability at speed). It’s a little bit stiffer than the Process Flying V but not by much – definitely a bit softer flexing than the Twenty Five. Will be a little better for jumps than the Twenty Five and edge to edge would be similar – quicker edge-to-edge than the Process Flying V.
Another option is the YES Standard, which I would say is even quicker edge-to-edge.
The West and the Standard are what I consider all mountain boards – if you wanted to check out other all-mountain options check out the link below but I think that the West and the Standard would be most suited to what you’re describing – that or the Brain Storm but I don’t know anywhere that still has any in stock. Any of these boards would sacrifice float in powder, carving and speed over the Twenty Five but would give you back some playfulness and being a bit better with jumps.
~ My Top 10 All-Mountain Snowboards
There’s one more option which I don’t think I’ve mentioned – and that’s the Capita Kazu Kokubu Pro – this one is a bit more off the beaten path – it’s a bit unique but a fun board. The way I would describe it would be a Powder-Freestyle board. It’s a powder board but it’s sized to be small and medium flexing (most powder boards are big and surfy) – being more compact and just the way it’s built makes it really snappy edge-to-edge – so being good in the powder and really fast edge-to-edge makes it really fun in the trees. And since it’s not that aggressive, you can slow it down on the groomers too. I think the only downside is that the longest size is a 157 – but it is made to ride smaller sizes. Also it’s a bit more of a limited edition so you could have trouble locating one in a 157. Anyway check out my review at the link below if you’re curious.
~ Capita Kazu Kokobu Pro Review
Nate, I can’t thank you enough for the feedback! My friend just got a West, so I’m going to try to ride that in the next few weeks. I think there’s a place nearby that I can demo the 25 as well. The brainstorm and Kazu sound exactly like what I am looking for, just need to find one…
Hey john
You’re very welcome. Awesome that you will get a chance to potentially try both the Never Summer options. Brainstorm sold out early this season and the Kazu is a bit of a limited addition so they are hard to source.
Let me know how you get on on the Never Summer boards.
Hi Nate,
Checking back in. Had the chance to ride a NS West and Burton Branch Manager the other day at Winter Park. The West felt like a more damp version of my board with better edge hold. The Branch Manager was definitely more aggressive than the Burton Process FLyin V. Better edge hold and really quick edge to edge. I’m finding out that I really like the playfulness of my board and getting a better idea of what I’m looking for.
1. Quick edge to edge for the trees
2. Good Float in powder
3. Playful
4. Edge hold
Going to try to get my hands on a NS 25 or Jones Flagship and a Slash Brainstorm next week in Steamboat. Almost starting to lean more towards the Brainstorm.
Is there a board similar to the Kazu that would be easier to find to demo?
Hey John
Awesome that you had a chance to demo those boards and are getting closer to finding what you like.
Certainly going with something all-mountain as opposed to freeride will give you more playfulness. Freeride boards are typically a bit more aggressive.
Off hand, I can’t think of anything that’s too similar to the Kazu – but if something springs to mind, I’ll let you know.
Interested in buying a free ride board…6fooot 1 ..171 lbs …I’m aiming toward the jones flagship 161…I rode a 161 barracuda when heliskiing in whistler and I loved the control and speed it had in deep powder …just wondering if it’s a similar ride ? ..also I noticed that the yes pyl had a higher rating in carving …what makes the yes pyl better at carving groomers….looking to get a lot more into back country with still going to resorts….currently riding a Burton custom Flying V 156 …doesn’t handle wel at high speeds and on hatdpack ..thanks
Hi Glenn
In my opinion the PYL is one of the best, if not the best Freeride board on groomers that I’ve ridden. I don’t know the reason – but according to YES it’s because of the way they taper the board – whatever it is I felt it works.
But the Flagship isn’t bad on groomers either. I think a freeride board needs to be a good carver on groomers or it becomes more of a powder board – I just think that the PYL achieves that just a little bit better.
Whichever freeride board you go with you’ll certainly get a lot more stability at speed, float in powder and depending on the board you’ll likely get better grip in hard pack and icy conditions (the Flying V shape isn’t known for doing well in hard conditions). Certainly with the PYL and Flagship you’ll get better edge-hold in those conditions.
The Barracuda is what I would consider a powder board – it’s awesome in powder but not as good on groomers as most freeride boards. The Flagship and PYL will be close to or just as good in powder as the Barracuda so I don’t think you’d loose anything there.
In terms of size I would say the 161cm for the Flagship and the 162cm for the PYL would suit you the best. Especially if you hold on to your Custom Flying V – then you’ve got a more playful shorter board for those days when you want to have a bit more of a fun day at the resort, in good snow conditions and your longer freeride board for powder and when you want to bomb the groomers and off-piste around the groomers.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the info …I know this is little off topic but what bindings do u recommend for the jones flagship
Hi Glenn
I would check out the following posts:
~ My Top 5 Freeride Snowboard Bindings
~ My Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
The bindings in both lists would be suitable for the Flagship. If you want something really stiff then the first link is the place to look but if you want something that’s quite stiff but just a little bit more forgiving, then the second list might suit you better.
Hi Nate,
first off:
Thanks a lot for your awesome & detailed reviews! They’re far better than most snowboarding mag reviews.
Your reviews already helped me a lot to narrow down on a decision but I fear that I need some addtional help from you.
First to myslef respectively my rdiing profile:
Height: 6’0″ / 183cm
Weight: 190lbs / 86kg
Experience: 10+ yeats
Level: Advanced
Angles: Front: +15° to +21°
Back: +5° to -10°
Style: – Hard carving, speed & clear lines on piste
– powder(hard to find most of the time) & tree lines off piste whenever I can
– little jumps (mostly of natural kickers)
– switch & some freestyle sometimes (not often) for fun
Setup so far:
Binding: Union T-Rice 2016/2017 – L/XL
Boots: Salomon Malamute 10.5 US / 28.5cm Mondopoint
What’s still missing is the board:
Originally I was looking for a LibTech/Mervin board as their boards where recommended to me instead of a “old fashioned” Burtom Custom X (which I have been “checking out” for year). I was interested in the C2 BTX – or by now the X2C BTX or C3 BTX – and magne traction technology as I like a stiffer, more agressive board for hard carving. And a stiffer, mostly camber board with a little rocker (for some forgiveness + better powder performance) and the magne traction for edge hold sounded awesome for my on piste as well as my off piste activities.
So I was more looking in the agressive all mountain or an agressive all mountain freestyle board. At least until I read something more about the current freetide boards out there (including your reviews). The allrounder talents, the relative stiffness, the abilities in powder and the overall performance (also quick edge to edge for carving) of the reviewed boards got me interested. I mean I’m not the real backcountry hill climbing or heli boarding kind of guy. And in the Austrian Alps there are definitely more often hard/icy snow conditions than there is powder. So I take any “powder” or off piste line which I can get. But this is mostly hard packed, not fresh powder around the tree lines.
My thoughts so far:
I would have tended to the Never Summer Twenty Five (X – wide) at it sounded the best at “being good at everything”.
But as it is a limited edition is not discounted at all and therefore way more expensive than the competitors on the list. ARGH …
I was also interested in the Rossignol XV Magtek due to it’s performance (quick edge to edge) and edge hold as well as they available wide models.
But I’m not sure if it is too stiff for the everday conditions. Also the quite massive setback as well as the truly directional shape let me doubt that this is a real “one for all board”.
The YES PYL sounds awesome, but maybe a bit too agressive for everday use? Too stiff and unforgiving, too slow turning for shitty end of days conditions?!?
The flight attendant sounds also good – but I don’t know if I should be a fane of the EST binding system … doesn’t come with 2x screws less stability and with 4x?!
Jones Flagship … not sure about that one. I haven’t had any experience with Jones boards before and also didn’t hear about them much.
So I’m still as undecided as I ever have been about which board or even which board type to select.
At the beginning I looked into the LibTech TRS HP or even better the Swiss Knife which seems to have the perfect balance but unfortunately there is no wide size available ( please see below).
I hope you can help me out here at least a little bit more. Especially after reading through “half of my life’s story”.^^
But besides the actual board decision I still have another problem:
The long discussion about the size (length & width) of the board. I made bad experiences with too narrow boards with my relatively big feet.
There isn’t anything more annyoing & dangerous than to drag your backfoot’s heel/toe along in the snow while trying t carve hard & low.
But I like also the quick edge to edge performance of narrower boards as well as the quick turn initiation of shorter boards – especially in narrow tree lines.
But I still want to float well in powder and have the stability at speed. Do you get my problem …?
So I was going to get a wide board this time for sure and wanted to stay below 160cm. But I’m not so sure about it anymore reading more about the freeride boards. With some addtional width and lenght already build in for the better loat in powder I’m not sure if I can ride a regular board from 159cm to 162cm?!
So basically my questions to you are:
– which board & size would you recommend to me given my height, weight, boot size and riding style out of your top five freeride boards?
– what would you say about the recommended size (width & length) of each of the top 5 freeride boards on your list given my preferences?
– do you think I need to go with a wide board with a 10.5/11(max) boot and a X/XL union binding to be able to lay in hard & low carves and worrying about my heels/toes?
– are there any alternative recommendations out of the (agressive) all mountain board section you can give me?
– could you maybe compare your experiences with some mostly camber, C2/XC2/C3 BTX and magne traction boards to the ones of the top 5 freeride boards on your list?
THANKS A TON & cheers,
Bo
P.S.: I’m really sorry about the extensive text & the shit load of questions I have for you. 😉
Hi Bo
Thanks for your message – I’ll try to answer all of your questions as well as I can.
First of all, in terms of width, it becomes a better idea to go a little bit wider if you are really getting low on your carves. For a 10.5 boot I would often not recommend something wide – but in your case, I think it would be a good option. But if you can get something that’s not too wide, then you should get a better balance between being wide enough to make sure you aren’t getting that dreaded drag but narrow enough to still get decent edge-to-edge speed. I think something between 260mm and 264mm would be a good range in terms of waist width sizes, to look at. This isn’t completely accurate because each board is different but I think this would be a good range to look at.
Then, in terms of length, I think you can size down a little bit – that extra width in the wide options will give you more surface area, which will help with float in powder – and sizing down a bit will bring back some of that edge-to-edge quickness and make things a little easier in the trees.
So whilst, I might normally say to go with something around a 163-164 for a freeride board for your specs, I think you could drop down closer to 160.
So, in terms of the boards on this list I would say that the following sizes would be the best choices for you:
PYL: 160W
Flight Attendant: 162W
Twenty Five: 159W
Flagship: 159W
Rossignol XV: Not really an appropriate size, IMO.
I would probably say that the PYL or the Twenty Five would be your best picks from this list based on everything you’ve said – with the Flgaship a close second. I think that the Flight Attendant would also be suitable but won’t be as good in the harder/icy conditions that you say you experience regularly.
I think that one of the biggest differences between these more freeride profiles compared to more camber dominant ones is the extra rocker in there – and the biggest difference that makes is in terms of float in powder. A lot of freeride boards (not all) have the rocker predominantly (and sometimes completely) in the nose. So in terms of the camber profile over the rest of the board, it can feel very similar to aggressive all mountain type boards, in harder conditions but that nose just really helps in deep powder – and can help it be a little bit more catch-free too, on the groomers.
But really an aggressive all mountain board will still float reasonably well, especially if the powder isn’t that deep or if it isn’t that soft.
If you haven’t already checked out my aggressive all mountain and aggressive all mountain freestyle lists you can check them out at the links below. If you were willing to sacrifice a little bit in powder, then these could also be options for you.
Aggressive All Mountain Snowboards
Aggressive All Mountain Freestyle Snowboards
Hope this helps and answers some of your questions
Hey Nate,
You’re just awesome.
thank you so much for your response & insight.
Unfortunately I haven’t decided yet.
In terms of waist width I wanted to go minimum with 258mm, sweet spot 260mm.
So that tip/tail are at least 300mm wide which is hard to reach in case of a tapered tail (which is generally also a bad thing for carving) on a regular board.
The only decent deal I’d get for a NS 25 would be a 163W.
Which I imagine is just a little too long and too wide for that agility and quick edge to edge peformance which I’m looking for. But your’re more than welcome to correct me in case I’m wrong here. 😉
Otherwise I’d have to order in the US which would add enough shipping & customs costs to it that it would be more or less the same as the offers in Europe.
I’m still looking at the PYL … but I’m still not sure if it is a little bit too stiff and agressive.
I mean if you experience a great deal of also bumpy groomers, slush, etc. – so the usual “crappy mid/end of the day consitions” which I unfortunately experience a lot.
Is there anything addtional you can say to clear my doubts?^^
The Flagship … hmm. It’s not (yet) in my mindset. I don’t know why.
Probably because I basically haven’t heard anything of Jones boards before.
Other than that I started to look a little bit more in your (agressive) all mountain reviews and list. As I said, nothing decided yet. And as I look at more and more boards it isn’t making my decision any easier.
But the likes as GNU Billy Goat, NS West/Ripsaw, Slash ATV/Brainstorm, Arobor A-Frame (haven’t checked the available sizes yet) sound also interesting/awesome to me.
Cheers & thanks again,
Bo
Hi Bo
You’re very welcome.
All the sizes that I recommended in my last comment have tail widths over 300mm.
Yeah I think the 163W in the Twenty Five is getting a little bit big in terms of the combination of width and length. A 163 with a narrower width would be ok but with that width, I think it would be overall a bit too beefy.
I actually think that the PYL might be the best option. I would say that it’s better than something like the GNU Billy Goat or Burton Custom X or most aggressive all mountain boards when it comes to bumpy end of day groomers – with perhaps the ATV as the exception. It’s flex is quite stiff in hand but the on snow feel it feels softer than its flex suggests. Again, to me this board felt, when riding, not as stiff as a lot of aggressive all mountain boards. Because aggressive all mountain boards are usually all camber or predominantly camber, that tends to make them feel stiffer than their rating. Whereas a board with a lot of rocker will feel softer than its rating on snow. Take the Burton Custom X Flying V and the Custom X (camber) for example. Both feel like an 8/10 flex when bending by hand but the Custom X Flying V feels more like a 7/10 on snow and the Custom X more like an 8.5/10 or even 9/10 on snow.
I’d say that the PYL feels more like an 8/10 on snow.
The other reason I would suggest the PYL is that it is really nice to carve. YES says the reason for this is the tapered underbite (which is the way they taper it) – see the video above for more of an explanation. I don’t know whether their explanation is the reason it carves well – but it did feel really nice to carve to me, whatever the reason.
If you went with something like the Brainstorm or the NS West they would certainly be equal or slightly better in that bumpy terrain but would lag those freeride options in terms of carving and powder and would lag the aggressive all mountain options in terms of carving.
Anyway, hope this gives you more info to go off
Hey Nate,
sorry for the delayed reply – I was just too busy but also made some progress – thanks to you!
You’re really the best. That was EXACTLY the reassurance which I needed.
And after some searching I still found a somewhat decent deal on the PYL 160w – which was the last one in all of Europe I guess.
So I guess it was meant to be the PYL 160w. 😉
But I still have a lot of open questions respectively decisions to make.
Some are unfortunately not so straight forward as I’d like them to be – see the details below (again sorry for the extensive text^^).
THE BOARD:
It looks a little bit like a “short fatty” 😉
I also meassured it nose to tail (without the radius) and its only 158cm.
But it’s not as wide as it seems – at least not at the waist. I guess its rather massive nose is mainly responsible for its “fat” appearance.
It has less camber inbetween the inserts than I thouht. I really hope the edge hold though the underbite tech is really that good.
And that it has still some “snappy” feeling to it while carving despite the lesser camber I’m used to (seems lesser as the C2BTX profile from Mervin).
Other than that I got a design/coloring which I haven’t seen yet (which confused me at first sight).
The nose is painted in deep black slowly ligthing up on the way to the tail. The tail has the wodden design. I like it. 🙂
THE BOOTS:
I fear that I have to go with a 29cm MP Malamute.
The 28,5cm MP feels like a perfect fit but could be a little to short – tight at the toes.
The 29cm MP Malamute just offers those extra space around my toes.
But it’s 1cm longer than the 28,5cm MP boot and that is already the boarderline size for the M (M/L) bindings and the board (see details below).
The 28,5cm MP liner fits my 28cm feet well but there isn’t any “buffer space” for the comfort of my toes.
I don’t know if I would get the addtional toe space which I’d prefer through thermo forming the liner. What do you think?
BINDINGS TO BOARD:
– stance 60,4cm, centered (possiblity to move 1 insert to the back & front)
-> that’s a stance that seems to be more fitting to little bit longer board (ca. 162cm – 164cm). Or so it feels to me.
-> Would you recommend to go back to the ref stance of 58,4cm / 23inch for that one?
-> It would also add some flexiblity in terms of the possiblity to move the binding position 2 inserts to the back & front
– angle front and back 0°(just for checking the binding size in a neutral setting)
– angle front 15°, back -6° (good reference as usual riding settings for me front between 15° and 21°, back -6° and 6°)
L (L/XL) – smallest setting without gaspadel adjustment
-> front: angle 0°:
toe overhang topsheet 0mm, perfect fit
heel overhang topsheet 3mm, 0mm to the edge
angle +15°:
toe overhang topsheet 3mm, 0mm to the edge
heel overhang topsheet 2mm, 1mm to the edge
-> back: angle 0°:
toe overhang topsheet 1mm, 2mm to the edge
heel overhang topsheet 4mm, 1mm overhang edge!!!
angel -6°:
toe overhang topsheet 2mm, 1mm to the edge
heel overhang topsheet 4mm, 1mm overhang edge!!!
M (M/L) – biggest setting without gaspadel adjustment
-> front: angle 0°:
toe 9mmm to the topsheet edge, 12mm to the edge
heel 6mm to the topsheet edge, 9mm to the edge
angle +15°:
toe 4mmm to the topsheet edge, 7mm to the edge
heel 9mm to the topsheet edge, 12mm to the edge
-> back: angle 0°:
toe 6mmm to the topsheet edge, 9mm to the edge
heel 5mm to the topsheet edge, 8mm to the edge
angle: -6°
toe 5mmm to the topsheet edge, 8mm to the edge
heel 6mm to the topsheet edge, 9mm to the edge
Boots to bindings:
28,5 MP -> L (L/XL) (smallest setting without gaspadel adjustment)
– good fit, heel fits well
– in the middle combined 20mm space to the sides (still acceptable I think)
– baseplate overhang: 3,5cm heel/toe
28,5 MP -> M (M/L) (biggest setting without gaspadel adjustment)
– tight to perfect fit (so tight with a little snow/ice it won’t fit I guess)
– just 9mm space to the sides (perfect fit)
– boot just fits into highback with a little push (screws of highback have contact with the rubber sole)
– baseplate overhang: 4cm heel/toe!
-> I think this is right at the edge to have a optimal pressure transfer between bindings and board. what do you think?
29 MP -> L (L/XL) (middle setting without gaspadel adjustment)
– good fit, heel fits well
– in the middle combined 20mm space to the sides (still acceptable I think)
– baseplate overhang: 3cm heel/toe – which would be perfect!
29 MP -> M (M/L) (biggest setting without gaspadel adjustment)
– tight to perfect fit (so tight with a little snow/ice it won’t fit I guess) – no difference to the 28,5cm MP boot
– just 9mm space to the sides (perfect fit) – no difference to the 28,cm MP boot
– baseplate overhang: 4cm heel/ 5cm toe!! So that’ already a too massive overhang boot to baseplate, don’t you think?
BOOTS (& BINDINGS) TO BOARD:
M (M/L) + 28,5cm MP boots – angles front 15° , back -6°:
– edge overhang front: heel/toe 2cm which is already right at the boarder of beeing acceptable.
– edge overhang back: heel/toe 2,5cm which is really in the negative range
– doable angles on flat floor: 81° backside, 87° fronside …
– sounds good but I guess when the massive nose and the edge dig into the snow those angles will reduce to around 60° because of the borderline boot overhang
What do you think?
L (L/XL) + 28,5cm MP boots – angles front 15° , back -6°:
– edge overhang front: heel/toe 2cm which is already right at the boarder of beeing acceptable.
– edge overhang back: heel/toe 2,5cm which is really in the negative range
– doable angles on flat floor: 81° backside, 87° fronside …
– same as with the M (M/L) bindings … tells me that at least on a flat floor the minimal binding overhang on the backfoot makes no differences in terms of angles.
– but on snow this might lead to some drag when it comes to really low carves. What do you think? Do you have any experienc with minimal binding overhang?
What do you think?
M (M/L) + 29cm MP boots – angles front 15° , back -6°:
– edge overhang front: heel 2cm, toe 2,5cm which is already in the negative range for the toe
– edge overhang back: heel 2,5cm, toe 3cm which is really in the negative range
– doable angles on flat floor: 81° backside, 71° fronside!!! which I guess would reduce to 50° and below in snow.
– The setup doesn’t seem to work. Ok, in powder and playing around on groomers you can get away if it.
– I guess that’s the kind of setup I already rode a couple of times which leads to heel or toe drag (in this example) lastest when you want to do some nice carving.
What do you think?
L (L/XL) + 29cm MP boots – angles front 15° , back -6°:
– edge overhang front: heel 2,5cm, toe 2cm which is already in the negative range for the toe
– edge overhang back: heel 3cm, toe 2,5cm which is really in the negative range
– doable angles on flat floor: 77° backside, 80° fronside
– So the bigger binding with middle sizing settings & the 29cm MP boot even out the possible angles where I would says this would/could work
– but there is still the tiny little bit of overhang of the bindings (at least over the topsheet edge) which worries me quite a bit
What do you think?
I would wish for 1-1,5cm boot overhang max. for carving. I think with 2,5cm the danger of the tail washing out in the steep and at carves is really high.
But unfortunately I never noted down the overhang when I felt uncomfortable on a board which was not wide enough. But I guess it should be around the 2,5cn mark.
Any experiences there? What is your boot overhang limit in the usual setup when you also want to carve hard and low?
CONCULSIONS:
1. BOARD:
So the 160w was the correct decision. 260mm waist width is I think the bare minimum for my feet. A few mm more would actually also be good.
It’s shorter than most boards I’ve written but I hope that this brings agility I want and hope the effective edge is not too short through the underbite tech.
The wideness should bring the extra float even though my weight is at the upper edge of the recommended range.
2. BOARD TO BINDINGS:
This is basically a no-brainer.
The L (L/XL) binding is a little bit to big even though it doesn’t affect the possible angles on a flat floor). I guess you share this opinion, correct?
The L (M/L) hits the sweet spot pretty well but could be just a few mm bigger (@Union: 3 sizes please^^)
Never had/used a gaspadel before. The purpose is clear to me, bring quicker more pressure to the frontside edge.
But what is the recommended setting? Should it be adjusted that the gaspadel ends right at the edge topsheet edge?
3. BOOTS TO BINDINGS:
Really hard as the only option would be the M (M/L) binding.
But I find those a little bit too small for the boots. And the Malamute is already a slim boot.
I guess wider boots wouldn’t even fit into the M (M/L) binding at all.
The L (L/XL) would be the perfect fit with maybe a little bit too much space at the sides for the Malamute.
But even wider boots would fit well into the binding. But as already said: The L (L/XL) is a bit to wide for the board
4. BOOTS (& BINDINGS) TO BOARD:
If I could wish for something I would wish for slightly smaller feet and maybe also 3 sizes for union bindings.^^
Then it would be almost a no-brainer with the PYL 160w, a “medium” sized t.rice and the malamute in 28cm MP would be an awesome setup for all conditions.
But unfortunately I can’t wish for this and have to deal with what I have & know. The only setup which is really off the table is the M (M/L) binding with the 29cm MP boot.
Everything else is possible and I would lean towards the M (M/L) bindings with the 28,5cm MP boots as this setup most like can work well.
And if I would just get just 2-3mm of breathing room for my toes through thermo forming the 28,5cm MP liner I think this boot size would be comfortable.
But a lot also depends on your feedback and opinion. So I try to stay completely open-minded for the moment.
Would really appreciate if you could help me out here one last time and at least anwer a few of my questions respectively give feedback to my statements & measurements.
Thanks a TON in advance!
Cheers,
Bo
Hi Bo
Thanks for the message. I will try to answer everything to the best of my knowledge. Apologies if I miss anything.
First of all, in terms of the boots. If you get them heat molded that could certainly help give your toes a bit more space. I had my boots heat molded in store once where the toes felt a bit tight and they put a mold of some sort in the toe box when they were molding it which gave the toes some more space. No guarantees but I think you will be able to get some toe space out of that. I agree that if you can, then the 28.5 boots would be your best bet if you can fit into them comfortably. Just gives you a bit more breathing room. The other thing is that boots do tend to pack out as you ride them. Have you used the boots yet and if so how long have you been riding with them? Boots tend to pack out so sometimes it’s a good thing to have them a little snugger than you would want to begin with – if there’s too much room then they can pack out and become a little bit too big.
There will always be some overhang of the boots over the baseplate of the bindings. This is a good thing but obviously you don’t want it to be too much. Ideally, you would have the base plate of your bindings go from heel edge to toe edge – and then have your boots overhang both the board and the bindings by around 1.5cm to 2cm. But the heel side of the bindings can be a bit inside the edge sometimes and boots overhanging the baseplate a little bit more there. THe bindings can go to the true edge too – they can overhang the top sheet edge a little.
I’m quite surprised that you can’t fit the large bindings inside the edges on a 260mm waist width board though. I have flux bindings in an L (which are probably a little bit smaller than Union Ls but not by that much) and I get those on boards with waists as narrow as 250mm. I always use Ms for Union Bindings (but US 10s – 28 mondoprint).
The other thing is that, if you can, if I’m on something that I think might be too narrow, I’ll try to make the heel overhang a little more than the toe. Most people can get lower on their toe side, so that’s the side that I really try to make sure isn’t overhanging too much. Obviously you don’t want it so much so that there’s heaps of heel overhang but if it’s like 2cm on the heel and 1.5cm on the toe, then I think that’s better than the other way around, IMO.
Overall, I think it sounds like you’re looking ok there, especially if you can get in the 28.5s comfortably. The angles you describe there seem like they should be ok. You can also check out the following links for a more advanced look at width sizing.
Angualtion Guide – https://www.scribd.com/document/336160226/Angle-Guide
Video – https://youtu.be/TZb1gDrYf0U
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Love this website and all the hard work you’ve put into it. I’ve decided after many times of renting a board that it’s time to buy one. The problem is the more research I do the more and more I change my mind, so I’ve decided to ask the expert.
I’m 6’1, 200lbs with size 12 feet and my skill level would be intermediate to advanced. I mainly go snowboarding in Japan, love the powder and carving but want a board that is going to allow me to do hits off the natural terrain easily as well.
Unfortunately financially I can only justify buying one board at the moment so I’m going to need something that is not too specialized in one area. The Burton FA and Jones Flagship both seem like potentially good fits but I’m worried that they may be too specialized. Thoughts on this? Any other boards that you think may be an option? Thanks for your help!
Hi Alex
I find freeride boards like the FA and Flagship are a little bit specialized but not hugely so. They are good in powder and on the groomers. They are good for carving and speed but not necessarily as good for jumps and switch as other boards. They tend to be reasonably aggressive and not the kind of thing you can really ride slow or play around with doing ground tricks or that kind of thing.
You can certainly do hits off natural terrain on freeride boards – really stable for landings – but the approach can sometimes be more difficult unless you’re really confident on a board like this.
You could also look at an all-mountain board which is a bit more versatile – see link below.
>>My Top 10 All-Mountain Snowboards
I would say that either an all-mountain or a freeride board – probably leaning towards all-mountain. But I probably go with one of these 2 or you would be sacrificing something in the powder (the other good type of board in powder is a powder board but they are quite specialized for powder riding).
You loose a little bit for powder riding and carving with an all-mountain over a freeride board but you usually gain in switch & jumps.
Hope this helps
And in terms of size I would say something wide for sure with size 12s. Try to get something that has at least a 260mm waist width.
And for length, there’s a bit of a range but I’d say something around 163cm to 164cm if you’re going freeride and more like 161cm to 163cm for all-mountain. If you want something a little bit easier for side hits, then aim for the lower end of that range – and if you want extra float in powder and more stability at speed, then aim at the higher end. Though since you are going wide, I think that you will have sufficient surface area for powder at the lower end. So I’d say something around 161cm for all-mountain and 162-163cm for freeride.
Hope that made sense (did a bit of thinking out loud there 🙂
Thanks so much for your help Nate. Sounds like any of the top 3 All mountain boards you’ve reviewed would be appropriate with their ability to handle powder very well. I’m probably leaning towards the Jones All Mountain Twin since it comes in a 161W.
Hi Alex. I think the Mountain Twin in the 161W would be a good choice.
Hey Nate,
thanks again for your input and your efforts!
Really appreciate it! You’re not just the guy saying/replying “don’t overthink it”.
I think we have a similar technical & detailed approach to snowboarding gear. 🙂
I had to open up a new comment as I couldn’t reply to the original comment.
Just a quick feedback to your post:
The boots are brand new. The issue with the 28.5cm is that they using the same footbed from 27 – 28.5. And this footbed is actually only long enough for my 28cm foot (the 29cm actually has a footbed until 31.5cm!! and that means the liner and the boot shell is actually not a real 29cm …)
So it feels already strange if you’re not 100% in the heel pocket and if so it still the feeling that the footbet ends right unter your toe (you can feel it) and actually touches the front of the liner. That itself would not be the huge problem and would definitely fixable through heat bolding.
But my big toe is basically already compressing the front of the liner and I really touch the outer shell of the boot itself while standing up and walking – which feels very uncomfortable. I’m fine while really bending my knees in a low riding stance. But when I think of crushing my big to on the outer shell every time I go hard on the backside edge then this would definitely suck … I’ll try it out with the heat molding next couple of days … in the end I have nothing to loose.
Alternative would be some other boots with a better fit – in the end a 28.5cm MP size still varies a lot (too much for my taste) from brand to brand and boot to boot. Maybe some better size reduction tech will also help with the other problems.
I was also relly surprised that the Ls doesn’t even fit a (mid)wide board. That’s why I got actually my frist wide board ever. And it’s just by a few mm on each side. I thought it is a no brainer that the L will fit without issues on a wide board and it will have the perfect edge to edge size.
For my taste the M binding is a nearly too perfect fit for the 28.5cm boot but it would definitely create a superb response.
But in my opinion the closer the bindings to the topsheet edges the better the edge to edge performance. And the M bindings are a little to small for the wide board. I didn’t want to go down that road but I’ll check out the vertical disc and gas pedal adjustments and see if I get the M bindings closer to the edges. As I wrote: For the Ls there is no room for any adjustments and I’m most concernd about the real 1mm overhang over the !actual edge! on the heel side of the back foot.
Do you have any experiences there? It might hinder the edge to really build up grip – especially on ice or icy conditions and then I’m basically landing hard on my butt … what do you think? Do you have any experience yourself with such a slight overhang of the bindings over the real edge?
Hehe, same thinking/experience here. But it’s not basically – at least not in my case – that you get lower on the frontside edge. But usually some drag on the backside edge is better as falling on yout butt most often is more “comfortable” as ramming your head into the snow or even worse on ice. 😉
Yeah, all the angles are really well! But I don’t think they’re usually measured on a flat floor.^^
And it’s not wonder the angles are still good because of the massive nose. But if I put my weight on it and the edge into the snow & ice those angles will change quite a bit to the worse I guess. And especially on the backfoot with the tapered, softer, rocker-based tail.
But honestly: I never measured them with the board under my feet in the snow … I’m just concerned that the board/setup in the end doesn’t perform like I have in mind/wish for.
What would you prefer yourself? (I know – you mentoned it a couple of times that with Union to prefer the Ms)
Rather a perfect boot -> binding fit for the overall response with more space to the toe and heel topsheet edges?
(As I said: I’ve to try to vertical disk & gas pedal setup to maybe get a better fit with the Ms even if it costs some flexiblity in terms of stance width)
Or a bigger binding with some room for the boots but a perfect topheet edge to edge fit of the bindings?
(If there wouldn’t be the real edge overhand on the back foot I proably would have gone for the bigger ones for better edge to edge performance)
Thanks & best regards,
Bo
Hey Bo
Since your boots are brand new, I think that they will pack out a bit as you ride – and heat molding them will likely help too. Obviously you don’t want that toe crushing feeling, even temporarily but that might come right. You’re right that there isn’t really a universal fit in terms of mondoprint and this varies across brands so you could find it’s different in a different brand. But if you did go for a boot with good reduced footrpint that will certainly make a difference and even if you ended up in a 29.0 Mondoprint you would likely have a shorter outersole compared with the 28.5 Malamutes (Salomon don’t have great reduced footprint tech). If you were thinking of swapping boots Adidas, Burton and Ride have the best reduced footprint tech – of all the brands that I know.
The overhang of the bindings over the heel edge isn’t ideal but if it’s only 1mm you might get away with it – ideally you wouldn’t have that at all but I have ridden like that before with no issues.
I think the angles in that angulation guide take into account that they will be reduced once your on the snow. Because you’re right, they will certainly change as your board is pushed into snow.
I prefer Union Ms – but I have a US10 boot and I don’t typically ride boards that are more than 258mm in waist width. I think ideally you want that edge to edge fit for your bindings – but I don’t always get it, but it’s not a huge deal, if they’re a couple of mms in from the topsheet edge. I usually try to get them to the toe edge and if they are going to be inside the edge at all, it would be on the heel edge. That’s how I would usually set up anyway.
Hey Nate,
thanks for the feedback.
That’s also what I’m thinking but I’m not sure if I could gain the ca. 5mm through really extending the heel poket while molding. Let’s see … went twice to the shop … 2x times no luck (timing issues, etc.). I’ll try it a 3rd time tomorrow …
Yeah, the angulation guide is superb and really easy. I could have slapped myself yesterday.
As an engineer I should have come up with somthing simliar and more precise method than what I did initally.^^ So according to that guide I only reach angles around 60° – 65° degress. Barely enough but certainly not what I had in mind especially when going for a wide board to have that extra freedome in terms of angles.
I get the Ls with vertical alignment to the topsheet heel edge. It’s just ca. 1mm overhang over the topsheet edge when I take ONLY the baseplate into account without disk cover respectively gaspedal. So far so good. But if you can remember the Union’s gaspedal it’s really not on top of the baseplate but rather an extension as the gaspadel edge actually contacts the topsheet. When I attach the gaspedal on the smallest setting possible I have an 2mm overhang of the outer gaspedal edge over the REAL EDGE. Which really concerns me …
With the Ms centering them through vertical alinment I have a distance of 10mm to the topsheet edge on each side. Doable but far away from perfect. What do you think?
On the toe side the gaspadel edge actually reaches then the topsheet edge on the smallest setting. If I exentd the gaspedal settings to the middle position then it is acually a perfect alignment to the real edge.
What would you do / prefer?
Thanks again,
Bo
Hi Bo
In terms of the gaspedal, I wouldn’t be afraid to extend that out as far as it can go – that’s what it’s there for – to allow for a longer boot to fit in there better. If you find that with the Gas Pedal fully extended on the Ms you can get it to go to the top sheet edges – including the gaspedal not just the baseplates, then that’s the size I would go with, even if it means moving the heel edge back slightly. If you find it difficult to get the bindings centered with this you can also adjust the heel cup for better boot centering and you can also turn the binding disc so that’s it’s vertical. This gives a few more options for centering the bindings (but also reduces the stance width options). You’ve probably tried everything but just wanting to make sure there aren’t more options left. Also check out the video below, in case there are some more tips in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYeMvWKBu84
I agree that, given how you like to carve low, that 60-65 degrees is probably less than what you were looking for. I would have been happier to see 70 degrees there. And I thought you would be able to achieve that on the width of that board.
I have had a couple of people mention how long the outersole is on their Salomon boots – so I wonder if that’s part of the issue. I guess with some of the other companies really focusing on getting their footprint less and less, Salomon’s obviously haven’t gotten longer – but comparatively to the others they appear longer now.
Hey Mike, thanks for your awesome post! I think my style is more of a freerider. So I weigh 220 pounds, I’m almost 6′( actually 5′ 11 3/4″ ) I wear size 12, my stance is between 23 and 24 and my angles are duck 15, 15. So through you post I was able to decided on the Burton X for my first boot (they have size 12 thank God), the Burton X base (large) for my bindings (quick question is it okay that the Burton X base’s high back is not adjustable or is it?) and now I want to decide on a board. With my specs based on another post of yours My length and weight should be 164. I looked at the Pick your lines, that max weight goes to 210, does that mean that I can’t get this board as it doesn’t match my weight?
Hey Nate,
Sorry for the typo on your name. Can you recommend a snowboard for me based on the specs I gave? I might also go with the Genesis X bindings as a cost reduction.
Thanks.
Hi Rasheed
Apologies for the late reply. Just had a full on weekend demoing snowboard gear and then took Monday off for my fiancée’s birthday.
Firstly, I think that the Genesis X would be a good option. You might get a little more out of the X Base but they are very expensive. The Genesis X are very nice bindings (actually just rode them again over the weekend) and for the price savings I think it’s worth it. The Genesis X is a little softer flexing than the X Base but not by heaps. They’re are still reasonably stiff (around 7 to 7.5/10, I would say).
In terms of length for snowboard, I would say anything around that 164cm mark would be good for you but you can be a little bit flexible on that and give or take a couple of centimeters.
In terms of weight recommendations, I wouldn’t be too concerned about them. I would take them into consideration but if you are over the recommendations by not that much, I wouldn’t write that board off.
However, in the case of the Pick Your Line, I would be more concerned about the width. I think the only size for the PYL that would be ok width-wise would be the 160W – but I think that would be too short (and only just wide enough) for you. The 165cm does have a 258mm waist and you would be close to fitting on that, because you are going with Burton boots (good reduced footprint tech) but you would be cutting it close I would say.
You could try it and risk the 165cm PYL – or you could go with one of the following:
– Burton Flight Attendant 162W (264mm waist)
– Never Summer Twenty Five 163W (265mm waist)
– Jones Flagship 165W (266mm waist) – or even 162W (263mm waist) if you wanted something a little shorter
– Rossignol XV 164W (264mm waist)
Those would be my top suggestions as per my top 5 freeride snowboards post.
Let me know if you want more options. I can give you some suggestions outside of this lot if you want.
Hope this helps
Thanks alot Nate for the response,
I decided over the weekend after I posted to get the Ride Trident Boots as I feel like I will end up being more of an aggressive all mountain rider. Also thanks for your advice on the bindings as I think I will go with the Burton Genesis X. Do you recommend getting reflex as it give me more options on different boards over the EST? The problem is I can’t find the Ride Trident Boots in size 12 online anywhere as well as the Burton Genesis X in large. Any thoughts on where I can find them or do I have to wait until the 2017/18 versions come out?
The more I read your post on the aggressive all mountain boards, the more I feel like I fit there and might end up going with one of the boards you listed as your top six.
I just want to say thanks again, your website is incredibly informative!
-SHEED
You’re very welcome!
I just did a bit of a search at the stores I usually use and I couldn’t find Trident 12s or Genesis X Large either unfortunately – so you might have to wait until the 2017/18 gear comes out. The only Trident 12s I found was in a European store.
In terms of going for the Re:Flex model – I think this is a good idea. Unless you are going to get a Burton board. If you do end up getting a Burton board before you get bindings, then you could go with the EST model – but the EST models won’t fit on any other brand – so if you don’t go with a Burton board or if you buy the bindings before the board and aren’t sure which you will go with, then get the Re:Flex model.
Also based on boot side of 12, recommended waist width for me is 163, does that mean that I can’t ride the Yes. Pick Your lines boards. I plan on buying the Burton X boot and Burton X base for my bindings.
Sorry this might be repetitive but base on your post, my recommended length is 164,
Hi mate, I currently ride a Rossi jones experience 163 (2010) that I really like and it is in very good condition. The only negative , the board is really hard work in moguls or very uneven terrain. Not sure if it is due length or flex.
I am 5’10 and 186pounds without gear.
Do you think that a Flagship would be a good upgrade or will feel very similar, did technology and shape changed that much compare with the Roosi.
Would you go flagship 161 or 164?
Thanks
Hi Diego
I don’t have any experience with the Rossi Jones Experience so I can’t make any comparisons but I can give you my opinion on the Flagship.
I would say that it’s a little bit better than average in uneven terrain – it’s not great but it’s not horrible. It’s improved from what it used to be though.
In terms of length, I personally find moguls and uneven terrain to be easier to tackle on a shorter board. So if you were to go with the Flagship, then I would choose the 161 over the 164.
But I can’ really say whether or not the Flagship would be better than the Rossi Jones Experience in moguls/uneven terrain.
Hope this helps somewhat
Hi Nate, thanks for your fast response, do you think that I will notice the difference in pow going down to 161? I ride Japan and Utah.
Is it a better idea to keep the Rossi and get a hovercraft? Again struggling with size, for my weight sounds like 160, but the width is a concern and the 156 could me small…or one board quiver and go flagship
Hi Diego
More length does increase float in powder – or more accurately more surface area does – but the Flagship has awesome float in powder anyway (because of the long, scooped rockered nose, the setback in the stance and the directional shape) that you won’t see any decrease in powder performance going to a 161 Flagship. In fact, depending on the specs of the Rossi Jones Experience you might even see an increase in powder performance.
The Jones Hovercraft is also definitely a great one for powder and could be an option to match up with your current board. The sizing for the Hovercraft is a bit different to most boards. It’s set up with a wide waist width and you would typically choose a shorter length. The idea behind these boards is that you can ride a shorter board but you still have that surface area for riding powder.
I’m not sure what your boot size is but the 160cm would definitely not be too short for you, given how this board is designed. But it’s possible you could even go down to 156cm with this style of board. Though the 160cm would be better for powder for you.
Thanks Nate, I have 9.5 boot. Do you think that the Hovercraft 156 would do or better 160? What would be advantage of going shorter?
Have you tested the mind expander? Looks like it could do the trick…
I am still not sure if I should replace the Rossi with the flagship or keep it and get a pow board.
Sounds like the Rossi is really good in pow, but how much more fun will a specific pow board be?
Sorry to keep spinning…really appreciate your input
Cheers
Hi Diego
I think I would go 156cm if you went for the Hovercraft. For a couple of reasons. One, if you are going to use it to compliment your existing board, then having a bigger range in that length gives you more variety. Two, I think it will give you more agility – and that would help you through those moguls, uneven terrain etc. which is the main reason you are looking at it right.
The main advantages of going shorter are to get more agility (particularly good for trees and moguls), quicker edge to edge, easier to spin and to butter (usually). You loose a little in terms of stability at speed and float in powder but I wouldn’t worry about the latter on the Hovercraft as it’s designed for powder and also has that extra width to make u p for it.
I would say you get a little more out of a specific pow board but usually the reason you would get one is as a second board that you use for powder days – and have another board that you would use in the resort. But, in your case I think it’s more about getting something that performs better in moguls/uneven terrain but is still good in powder right?
Hi Nate
Great job with the reviews, I found a lot of useful informatons!
I’m a small guy, 65kg (143 lbs) and 1,70m (5’7″). I ride about 99% of the time the Alps’ backcountry. I’d love to ride powder everyday but unfortunately I often encounter hard pack and icy conditions. I take the lifts probably two or three times per year. This season I’ve been riding lots of steep faces, couloirs.. and I want to get more into it. I currently ride a 153 Salomon Assassin which is too soft (flex 5) for what and how I ride. That’s why I’d like to get a new deck. I’m looking for a board good for steeps, stable at high speeds and with good edgehold in hard conditions. I’m not a freestyle oriented guy, I just like to hit natural features and do some jumps when possible. I was thinking about the XV Magtek but I’m a bit concerned about it being too stiff since I’m not a big guy. I guess it’s going to take time but that’s ok. I just want to know if at one point I’ll be able to be on top of it and not let it ride me instead. Hope you understand what I mean. Would the Jones Flagship be better? What are your thoughts about it?
Thanks
Hi Alessandro
I definitely understand what you mean. If the board is too big and too stiff it can definitely take you for a ride instead of you being in control!
Anything board in this category will take a bit to get used to compared to your assassin – and it definitely sounds like you get that, so that’s good. But once you do get used to one of these boards you will definitely get more out of them for how and where you like to ride.
I would say that in terms of something that’s good in hard conditions, the XV Magtek, the YES PYL and the Flagship are your best options from this list.
I wouldn’t say that the XV Mag would necessarily be too stiff for you – but I think their smallest size would be too long. That extra length in combination with the stiffness will make it a very challenging board for you to ride – and maybe not something you would get used to or at least not for a long time and even then it would likely not be optimal for you. So, even though it’s a good idea to go longer for a freeride board, I think the 159cm is just that bit too long, especially when combined with the extra stiffness.
So, for that reason I think the Flagship would be a better bet for. It comes in a 154cm and I think that would be a better size for you. I think anything from a 153cm to a 156cm would be a good range to look at.
I think the YES Pick Your Line would also be a great option and the 156cm would be a good size for you in that board.
The Never Summer 25 would also be a good option and is also good in hard conditions. The 155cm would be the best size for you, in my opinion. But that’s if you can find one. They aren’t making this model for 2018. But if you can find the 2017 version of it, that would work too.
One thing – just to make sure those sizes are ok width-wise – what is your boot size? Just want to make sure that those boards won’t be too narrow for you.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the quick response Nate, I have 9.5 boot.
Thanks Nate! I have 9.5 boot. I first thought the 159 could be ok looking at the sizing chart, also because Rossignol says to go with a bigger size than what one’s normally used to ride. Are these boards (XV Magtek, PYL, Flagship) still manoeuvrable at slower speed or they “get angry” want to be ridden fast all the time? Which one of these is more forgiving or easy to ride compared to each other? Could they be a do it all board? Could you explain to me what makes a board do well on uneven terrain?
Hi Alessandro
Apologies for the slow reply. I have been away for the weekend and off line.
I think with US9.5 boots you should be fine on those lengths that I recommended. They’re on the narrow size but still within range for 9.5 boots.
Yeah, definitely for freeride going with a bigger size is a good way to go. I just think that going up to 159cm would be going a little bit too big. Some people like to go really long but if you don’t know if you’re one of those people then I wouldn’t go that long until you’ve tried a board that long. Personally, if I was your size I wouldn’t go as long as that. I would go up to 156cm for sure and maybe up to 157cm but prob not any longer than that, personally.
These are the kinds of boards that do really like to go fast. I find them more tricky at slower speeds – you can still manage them, but they’re not that fun for slowing down and playing around on. I would say from this list probably the 25, the Flight Attendant and the PYL are the most forgiving but they’re still not the most forgiving boards – they’re all quite stiff and made for advanced riders for sure.
I wouldn’t class any of these as a do-it-all board. They’re not as specialized as something like a powder board, which tend to be really surfy, and often not that good for carving or on hard pack. But these boards are made to be good carvers, good in powder and good on hard pack. But to be do-it-all boards, they would have to also be good at slowing down, messing around and good at tricks and riding the park.
If you’re looking for a more do-it-all kind of board, check out the link below to see if an all-mountain board might be more your thing.
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
I’m not entirely sure what exactly makes a board do well on uneven terrain – but some just tend to feel easier to ride and nicer to ride in uneven terrain. But I would say that a softer flex certainly helps, and some rocker in the profile helps too.
Hope this helps
thanks Nate! i have 9.5 boot
Nate, first off – great site! Any advice for the upcoming 2017/18 gear would be appreciated. I’m looking at getting the Rossi XV. I guess there’s no change from 2016/17. I’m 6’2″ 193lbs with size 12 boot. Expert rider primarily in the trees, powder, steeps, occasional steep groomer for carves and never in the park. Debating between the extra size (168W) for more float or shorter (164W) for faster tree dodging. Based on Rossi weight scale either will work for me. First question – do you think I should go smaller or larger with the XV based on my specs? 2nd question – do you think I can ride the XV with the new 2017/18 Cartels? I like the idea of an all mountain binding that responds but isn’t overly locked in and twitchy. I think the Genesis is going to be too soft for my taste, but the Genesis X might be too stiff . If you think the Cartel isn’t responsive enough for the XV, I was thinking about checking out the new Union Falcors for 2017/18, but will need to wait for you to review those. Thanks again for any advice! Can’t wait to get back in the snow.
Hi Ryan
Thanks for your message. I didn’t ride the 2018 Rossi XV but it’s supposed to be essentially the same as the 2017 model.
Since you like to shred the trees, I would say that the 164W would be the best size for you. I would say around a 163 to 164 for all-mountain riding – which you’d probably typically want to add a few centimetres to for free-riding but, then take those off again for the trees – and with that extra surface area you get with the wide version, the 164 should have ample float. I think you’ll appreciate the shorter length of the 164W for the trees more than you’d appreciate the extra length of the 168W outside of the trees.
I think you could definitely get away with it with the Cartels, but there are probably better options. The Genesis Xs aren’t as stiff as they’re made out to be – or at least they don’t feel that way when riding. I think these would be a good choice. Though obviously you are paying more compared with the Cartels.
I REALLY wanted to demo the 2018 Falcors over the spring but couldn’t find any to demo unfortunately. But if they are anywhere near what they sound like they are, they would be a great choice too. They are the replacement for the T.Rice bindings from 2017 but there are quite a few upgrades, including the highback and the weight savings. They sound so good, I’m considering buying them on a whim, just so I can demo them (if I do I’ll of course publish a review for them). But for now, I can’t say for sure, but I suspect they would work really well with the XV.
Hope this helps – bring on the winter!
Thanks Nate. I’m currently on a 167 Nidecker Megalight and it tears through the trees so the 164 should be even quicker. I am riding with Driver X boots which should be a good match with the XV and whichever binding I end up buying. Keep me posted when you get on those Falcor’s as they might be the right match for this combo. I’m interested on the new ankle strap that Union has this coming year on the higher end 2018’s like the Falcor. The ankle strap support was the original reason I was leaning towards Burton and disliked about Union. If the new Union ankle strap has the same feel of Burton, I might be back to Union. Thanks again!
You’re welcome Ryan.
Driver X def a good match with that XV. Will definitely let you know if I get on the Falcor.
Hi Nate,
I currently ride a 158 Jones Flagship and live in California. Most of my boarding is done at Mammoth or Squaw Valley with the annual trips to Utah and Whistler thrown in. I put about 20 days on my Flagship last season and love the board but feel that in uneven terrain/chopped up snow at the end of a powder day it can get cranky. I have Union Travis Rice Pro bindings on it and don’t know if I should get something like a Genesis X to absorb more of the shock. I’ve been doing some research and it seems like the Yes PYL is equally as stiff but does better with uneven snow conditions. Would you agree with that? It also seems like the Yes PYL offers a slightly better carve as well. I’m really leaning on purchasing a PYL and comparing that to the Flagship as I ride throughout the year. Can you recommend a size for me? I’m 5’8″, 140 pounds and wear an adidas tactical adv reduced footprint boot size 10.5 Not sure if the 156 will be fine given my foot size?
Additionally, I’m building my quiver and looking for a fun carvy powder board to add to the Flagship/PYL. Do you have any thoughts between the Yes Optimistic and Hovercraft? Thanks for your help.
Hi Murtuza
Thanks for your message.
I would agree that the PYL is a bit better in chopped up snow. I would say go for the 156. In some boots, I think it would be too narrow for 10.5s but Adidas have got a great reduced footprint and you should be all good with those boots. Also, the 156 PYL has a similar waist width to the 158 Flagship – so if you haven’t had any heel or toe drag issues on the Flagship, you won’t on the 156 PYL.
The Genesis X would definitely work with your setup. However, so do the Union T Rice and I’d say they have as good shock absorption on them or at least pretty close. I don’t think you’d improve the shock absorption going with Genesis X over the T Rice.
In terms of the Optimistic and Hovercraft – these are 2 boards I haven’t ridden. I haven’t ridden a lot of that type of board. I’m thinking of demoing more of that type this season, but unfortunately I can’t really compare them at this stage.
Hope this helps
hello, I want to go from a mountain to a freeride, what to choose between yes pyl and burton attendant? what are the differences between them? thanks in advance for Rico’s reply
Hi Rico
This is what I would say are the main differences between the PYL and Flight Attendant (FA).
1. The PYL is stiffer than the FA. I’d say PYL 8 or even 8.5/10 for stiffness. The FA more like 7/10.
2. The PYL is better in hard/icy conditions than the FA
3. The FA was a little easier riding switch but that’s not something that either of these boards is particularly easy on
Otherwise, their performance is fairly similar. I would say the main thing is that the FA feels a little more forgiving and maybe more on the all-mountain end of freeride boards, where the PYL is more pure freeride – stiff and a real bomber – but both are great as freeride boards. The clincher between the two for me would be if you often ride in hard/icy conditions – then go for the PYL, otherwise, either one is a great choice.
Hope this helps
thank you for your response and appreciate the job you are doing here, it is very useful for us who are not professionals, but for the first time I will choose FA, would go with ion boa boots and genius genesis x? or do you recommend anything else?
Hi Rico
You’re very welcome.
I think the FA will go great with the Ion Boas. The Genesis would also work but I think that the Genesis X would be an even better match with the FA.
would be better burton diode ?
Hi Rico
If you can find Burton Diode’s they would be a good match with the Flight Attendant. Though they are getting a little stiffer again than the Genesis X – but if you think that you’d like something quite stiff, then the Diode’s could be a good option. They don’t make them anymore, but you might be able to find some past season models or find some second hand.
I’d say the Genesis X are around a 7/10 flex, and the Diodes would be more like an 8/10
thanks nate 1
Nate,
Looking at a Jones Flagship just trying to dial the size. I am 5’10 and 190 pounds with size 11 us boots. Would the 161 be OK or should I go with the 162W. I haven’t ridden in a while as I have been surfing the world, but I am/was an advanced rider and leaning toward freeriding as my park/pipe days are behind me. Living in Australia we get varied snow conditions but mostly icy or spring like conditions but I will be traveling O/s with it as well. Any help on size would be greatly appreciated.
Dave
Hi Dave
Thanks for your message.
I think the 161 is probably going to be a bit narrow for 11s. If you ride +15/-15 or something with around a 15 degree angle on the back foot and with low profile boots you’ll probably be fine, but otherwise it’s going to be a bit narrow.
The 162W would be a safer bet, but it’s getting quite big in terms of width and length combined for your size. Some people do prefer longer but I felt the 162W Flaghship was a bit big for me (6’0 and 185lbs). But if you like that kind of length and if you’re quite athletic, then that size could work for you. The other option (if you have it available would be the 159W. It’s coming down in terms of size but 263mm is on the wider side for an 11, so that extra width means that you can afford to go a little shorter.
And if you have a straighter back foot, then that 263mm width will be a good width on either the 159W or 162W.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Hey! I´m looking to buy a new snowboard and hope that you can help me out a bit with deciding. I would say that i´m an advanced rider that mainly rides piste/powder and rarely hit the park. I like to ride hard and fast and want a board that is a really great carver and floats great in the powder. But since I also like to play around with the board when cruising around the mountain i´m not looking for a super stiff board. My last 2 seasons i´ve riden the lib tech attack banana which i´ve enjoyed a lot but found it lacking a bit of control when going at higher speeds. Therefore i´m looking for a more hard charging board, but with a bit softer flex.
After reading a ton on your website i´ve gotten really interested in the Burton Flight Attendant and the Capita Bsod, would you say that these are boards that will fit me or you have something better to recommend?
Thanks!
Hi Kasper
Thanks for your message.
I think those two boards sound like they would be suitable for you. They’re still going to be stiffer than the Attack Banana, which I would say is around a 5/10 maybe 5.5/10 at most. The Flight Attendant (FA) and BSOD are going to be more like 7/10. So certainly not super stiff – but will be a little stiffer than what you have.
They’ll also be a lot more stable. The Attack Banana is quite a loose ride which doesn’t make it great for speed or carving – and being centered and true twin that doesn’t make it the best for powder – and also not ideal for carving/speed. So, you’ll definitely be getting a more stable ride, significantly better carving, better at speed and better float.
But if you didn’t want to go up to 7/10 flex, you could look at something like the Jones Explorer (6.5/10 flex), Capita Mercury (6.5/10) or Salomon Super 8 (6/10).
Or you could look at something all-mountain, like in the list below. You won’t quite get as much in terms of speed, powder, carving, but still more than the Attack Banana – but you’ll get a little more playfull-ness.
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
Hope that hasn’t given you too many options now! But yeah, I think if you’re happy with 7/10 flex, then both the FA and BSOD would be great options.
Hi Nate!
Have you tried the burton skeleton key or the gnu mullair?
Best regards
Hi Eze
Unfortunately I haven’t tried those boards. I’d say that the Skeleton Key is more of a powder surfy kind of board, so I probably wouldn’t have it in this category (and I don’t really test that kind of board – just because I don’t have time and have to choose some categories to ignore).
The Mullair on the other hand is a board I’ve heard good things about and would categorize this as freeride. I’m very much hoping to get on a Mullair this season.
Sorry I couldn’t be more help
That’s ok, thank you very much for your response!
You’re very welcome. Hope you have an awesome season!
Hi Nate,
Wow! Some great stuff here. As a reader and prospective buyer, your site, reviews and detailed advice is really good – thanks!
So, here’s my dilemma: I’ve done some extensive online research on boards and narrowed it down to these three – Jones Flagship, Burton Flight Attendant and Yes Pick Your line. All three seem great boards, lots of great reviews and offer similar, yet slightly different characteristics – and hence the dilemma…
Before I dive into it, let me set the context for my current ride: been riding a Custom X 156 (2009), Driver X boots, Cartel EST bindings (all 2009). I’m 5’6″, 145 lbs and like aggressive all mountain riding, with a focus on charging, both on groomers and off-piste – from wide open bowls to steep-ish chutes and also love darting in and out of tree-lined runs. I’d say I’m in the advanced category, enjoy speed and carving, but also really like popping off drops, hitting lips wherever I can. I also enjoy dropping into the park and hitting directional jumps occasionally (not really rails and not jibbing) – just like grabbing decent air… Essentially I like to enjoy everything the mountain offers, which IMHO is what its all about. Speed and stability on groomers and powder probably take priority and like quick edge-to-edge capability on both.
As you probably know better than me, is that the Custom X is very stiff, pretty narrow and is primarily for carving, high speed charging, holding edges. All great but I’d like my new board to do more. For one it doesn’t float vey well in powder, I have to push back really hard on my back leg, which tires quicker. Also I don’t think it handles uneven terrain well and and you really have to work it, or bomb straight over it as you say. It can leave you pretty whacked toward the end of the day. Also, I don’t think it handles jumps very well due to narrower gait and perhaps more bite on edges?
I’d like an all mountain freeride board that can handle all or most conditions really well, but still be very stable at high speed, great carving and great in powder with the ability to do hit drop-offs, weave through trees and just be an all round blast. I also really want that surfy feel! I think I’m looking for a slight step down in stiffness (e.g from 9, 10) to perhaps an 8, possibly 7, though I’m not sure how the latter would affect me?
I started of with the Jones Flagship 2018, which was my favorite at first, then after reading multiple reviews, got turned on the 2018 Flight Attendant (your #2 Freeride). Finally, along comes the 2018 Yes PYL (your #1 Freeride), which sounds really amazing. I’m really struggling as to which might work best for me. I’m wanting to want the Jones, (I live in Tahoe where Jeremy Jones is) but I cannot ignore the FA and PYL, based on yours and other reviews… Aaarrg! I noticed there isn’t a full review on the Jones Flagship from you so I’d be interested to hear any more thoughts around this board – good and/or not so
Lastly, I am really interested in the Burton step-on boots/binding combo – ready they add to that surfy feel and just love the convenience factor. Will go for the Photon boots for less flex, greater response.
Phew! a lot, but appreciated your considered response on what you think is the best.
Many thanks!
Gregg
Hi Gregg
Thanks for your message.
I think that the PYL or FA are probably going to be your best bets – these boards are all high-performance boards and I’d say you’d definitely enjoy riding any of them. The biggest thing you would see over the Custom X, is float in powder. All of these boards will be more effortless in the deep stuff.
The main reason I say PYL or FA is that you mention you want something that’s better in uneven terrain, and I just found that the PYL and FA were a bit better than the Flagship in that area and better than the Custom X.
In terms of jumps, I don’t think you’ll notice a big improvement compared to the Custom X – the PYL maybe just a touch, but they’re not made particularly for jumping. But for straight air you can definitely jump on them, and for popping off drops and that kind of thing they can do that too – I’d say the PYL just a little better in that area.
Sizing might be another factor to consider.
Ordinarily, I would put you on something around 153cm, as an all-mountain size and add a couple of cms to that for freeriding (which sounds like is your main stay). And since you’re already on a 156, and one with a lot of effective edge, I don’t think we should size down at all.
So for the Flagship, I would say that the 158 is the best length for you. But if you are looking at adding a touch of width compared to your 2009 Custom X, then this size won’t really do that – 249mm waist width, 289mm tail, 290mm tip. (Custom X 156 from 2009 = 248mm waist, 291mm tip and tail). And I would also be a little reluctant in adding more length, especially for those tree runs.
For the FA, I would say go for the 156. This would add a little width in the nose (with the tail being narrower than what you have and the waist the same as what you have). 248mm waist, 285mm tail, 295mm nose. You also drop a little in terms of effective edge compared to the Custom X (118cm vs 121cm) but that’s because of a longer, rockered nose, which helps with float in powder (as well as the wider nose and the narrower tail to help the nose float and the tail sink).
For the PYL, I’d still say 156 – even though there is another little drop in effective edge (116cm) – but you get some extra width in there compared with the FA and the Custom X. 250mm waist with a 294mm tail and a 300mm nose. You could just up to the 159 to get more effective edge (118cm) but then you’re getting a bit too long for your size, IMO – and I think the likes of tree runs would suffer – even if it did offer more float in powder – but I think you’re going to notice more effortless float just going with the 156 anyway, compared with your current board.
In terms of Flex, I’d say the FA is definitely the softest out of those. But still not that soft. I’d say 7/10 on snow flex feel. As for the PYL and Flagship, I’d say 8/10 on snow flex feel. I’d say those two would be similar in terms of how they feel to flex in the hand compared to the Custom X but on snow didn’t feel as stiff to me. But yeah, if you wanted to drop to that 7/10 flex and get a more noticeable drop in flex, then the FA would be the way to go – but to me the Flagship and PYL did feel softer than the Custom X to ride – even if just by a little bit.
Hope this gives you more info to go off for your decision.
Hi Nate,
Fantastic! Again, wow! This really does help, thank you. I think I’m leaning towards the PYL – seems to be the best all rounder, has some amazing attributes and I think sits right in the middle of the bunch – teeny bit wider, jumps a bit better and I think if I’m not mistaken, floats better than or at least as good as the FA? And with the sintered base, super fast.
I’ve heard it has a more surfy feel than the others, perhaps a bit closer to the Flagship. Would you agree?
Another quick question: will I notice much of a difference in railing the board to get carve turns, or would it be negligible, based on the lower effective edge with the PYL? I realize there is a compromise to get some of the other capabilities in but just would like to get as sense of by how much?
I’m assuming no issues with boot width for either PYL and FA? Planning on using Burton Step-on Photon boot, size 9.
Finally and let it be known that I will not hold you to this in any way, but what would you choose, if you were me, based on the relatively scant information I’ve provided you??!
Cheers Nate, you are awesome and have been so very helpful!
Gregg
Hi Gregg
You’re very welcome.
I think either one is going to suit you well – so PYL would be a good pick – yeah I’d say it floats just that bit better than the FA – but I’d say that the FA is a slightly better carver. And yeah the PYL is probably a little surfier, I’d say – though you can still get a surfy feel out of the FA in powder.
I’d say you will notice a little difference with the PYL with carved turns. That reduced effective edge is going to feel different. And the PYL has a little (all be it subtle) of rocker in the tail as well as the tip. In that sense the FA would be more similar to the Custom X for carving. It’s got camber all the way back to the tail and the only rocker is in the nose – and you don’t necessarily notice that rocker that much until you get on powder (then you definitely notice it!). So it has more of a camber board feel. But that said, the PYL is also predominantly camber where it matters. So, I think if you’re looking for Custom X with float, then the FA would be closer to that – all be it softer flexing.
I’d say that you’ll be fine with the waist width with size 9s on either of those boards. Even if you ride with quite a straight back foot, I think you’ll be fine for width there.
If I were you, I think the safer bet would be FA, just because it’s a little more what your used to – although you would be taking a larger reduction in flex. The PYL would feel more different, but I’d say you’d get used to it relatively quickly. It’s hard for me to say because I ride so many different boards, I get used to them pretty quickly nowadays, but I don’t think it would feel too foreign after a while. So, it’s a tough choice.
Hi Nate,
Thanks for pointing out these subtle differences but can be noticeable on the ride. Also, good to know that the boots will be okay size-wise.
As you say, all great boards which makes it that much harder to settle on one, especially if you’re looking fo that one board in the quiver that needs to do it all.
Your information and feedback has been excellent. Can’t thank you enough. So, with that said, its certainly helped me get to the point where I make the final decision. I’m going to pull the trigger on the PYL – yes, I totally agree the FA is the safer bet, but I want to branch out more and try something a little bit more different – and I think the PYL will have that versatility, stability, surfy feel, as well as dictional jumping, great floating and better handling uneven snow, which happens a lot here.
For me, the just seems to hit the seat spot and I think I’ll get used to the feel pretty quick.
Thanks again, you’re the bomb!
Cheers
Gregg
You’re very welcome Gregg. Hope you enjoy the PYL as much as I do and that you have an awesome season on it!
I’m 6’3” 265lbs size 13 Burton step on boot/binding. Thinking of upgrading from my 10 year old 165 ride board. I’m thinking I need the longest widest stiffest board out there. Any advice?
Hi Charlie
Thanks for your message.
Generally speaking I’d say something around a 168 to 169 would be a good length for you. But if you’re used to a 165, then you could definitely go anywhere from a 165 to 169.
In terms of width, with size 13s, I’d say you’d want something minimum 265mm waist width – and that would only be if you had binding angles that put your back foot on a good angle (e.g. +15/-15). If you have a straighter back foot, the more like 270+ is likely necessary. I have no experience with Step on boots/bindings so I don’t know if there would be anything going on there that would affect this, but I wouldn’t think so.
In terms of stiffness, it’s a good idea to go a bit stiffer when you’re quite a big guy, so it’s probably a good idea to go quite stiff – but it also depends on style – if you like to ride fast and carve, then stiff is good but if you like you’re ride a bit more playful then you can go a little softer.
Based on all this these could be some possibilities:
~ Ride Timeless 167 (275mm) – this is the stiffest board I’ve ridden and it’s a good length for you and width shouldn’t be a problem – probably the best option, I’m thinking, particularly if you have a relatively straight back foot in terms of your binding angles.
~ Jones Flagship 169W (270mm waist)
~ Never Summer Chairman 169 (267mm waist) or the 165 (also 267mm waist) – but I’d only go there if you have reasonable angles for your binding angles.
I think those would be great options.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
Thank you for all of the help in the above article. I need help! I am looking to upgrade on my board …….I snowboard a few times a year, but live in the southeast. I lived in Oregon for a few years snowboarded quite often while there on the weekends. I no longer have any desire to hit the parks, really at all. I am 6’2, 215. I need a board that’s going to give me hopefully two things: speed and stability. I feel that my old board simply can not generate the speed I am looking for and stability at high speeds seems to waver a little! These days I want to simply bomb groomers and then really charge down back bowls etc….. Also, we will be hitting a lot of resort mountains in the future.
A few questions….. of this list is there one that would make more sense for a rider like me over the rest? I love the specs and what I read about the Yes Pick Your Line, but I also worry when I read the words “not for an intermediate rider” ????? I am intermediate rider looking for this type of board, but again I do not get out to the mountain like I used to…. today I am more so looking for stability and speed ….Need help on recommendations. thank you!
Hi Tucker
Thanks for your message.
In terms of getting good stability at speed, and still with a style of board that can float well in powder as well as bombing groomers, I think the follwoing would be good intermediate level options.
~ Capita Mercury
~ Jones Explorer
~ Jones Ultra Mountain Twin
~ Niche Story
These are all a little softer flexing and a bit more easy going in terms of camber profile for a more intermediate level. Not to say you couldn’t take a chance on one of these – but they are more difficult to ride – largely because there either quite stiff or quite technical in terms of camber profiles or both.
In terms of sizing, I think something around 164, 165 would be a good length for you. Though it would depend somewhat on what you’re riding now – as in what you’re used to. If you can let me know your current boards make/model and size, I can give a better recommendation. But moving up a little length wise will also add stability. Also if you can let me know you boot size and binding angles. If we’re able to go a little wider, then that can also help with stability.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate, thanks again, this has been a great help and continues to help me narrow down my search! For as you know from the previous message, being in the south, I do not have any board shops to simply pop into and pick their brains for help on updating my board.
I really like the idea of the Jones Explorer after reading into the specs…. But would love to continue the conversation here with you as well. Again, I am in my 30s now and will be doing more resort boarding than anything else. Speed down the groomers while maintaining stability is important to me seeing that I do not get to ride and build the comfort on the snow I use to have! Typical day will be hitting the groomers in the morning with wife, kids, and friends and then a few of us heading off to the bowls and blacks during the afternoon! While with the family I like to bomb down the groomers, maybe sneak off into the tree line a little, but then still need the stability to hobble across the cat tracks as we get from one spot to another…….Also, no need what so ever for the park anymore!
I am currently riding a 162 Burton Seven, from 2006. 2016 Cartel bindings. The board just seems really worn and slow the last two seasons ….. Maybe I am just gettting worn down and slow lol !!!
Any further recommendations from here would be appreciated! Board and bindings ….. Price is not a problem here…. Just want the right thing for someone who doesn’t have much continued expertise in this area!
Thank you!
Hi Tucker
Thanks for the extra info.
I think the Jones Explorer would work well for you. Though it’s something you can take into the park, that’s not something that takes away from its other specs.
In terms of sizing, I’d say the 162 is probably your best bet, but it would also depend on your boot size and binding angles as to whether or not the 162 is wide enough. It might be the case that the 161W is a better size.
In terms of bindings, I think something from the following list would work well with the explorer and your style of riding.
>>Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
I love your site. It is probably the most helpful site for choosing new boards around. I am in the process of trying to choose a new board. I have been riding for about 20 years, live out in Colorado and have the ability to board most days that are good powder days. I would say that I am probably in the advanced rider category or slightly below it. I currently have a 2013 Burton Custom Flying V. It has been an ok board and only the 3rd board I have ridden and owned since 1991. I really enjoy 3 types of riding. Trees, Groomers and Powder. I think I’d like a rather stiff board 7-9/10 that can really carve but has float for the powder. I am not a huge fan of the park but will occasionally hit some jumps but thats about the extend of it.
The three boards I have really been looking at are the Captia Black Snowboard of Death, the Solomon Assassin Pro, and the Jones Flagship. I really like the BSOD but understand it got rated a little lower by you. I am 5’6”, 180 and athletic. I am also planning on trying out the new Burton step on’s when they come back in stock. I am old school and have a tendency to over tighten my boots because I really like super responsive setups and will forgo comfort in order to have that responsiveness. Because of that I am a little unsure about the step on’s.
Any suggestions you could give would be greatly appreciated. I am curious about your opinion on the step on’s as well as your board recommendations.
Thanks for your time,
Brian P.
Hi Brian
Thanks for your message.
The BSOD was only 1 place off making this list. A good board for sure – but it has changed quite a lot for the 2018 model and unfortunately I didn’t get on the 2018 model. It’s become less freeride and more all-mountain. It’s still on the freeride end of all-mountain, but it’s kind of in the middle of the two categories now. I’d say it’s definitely still an option for the style of riding you’re describing.
The Assassin Pro is a killer deck – only thing is that it is a centered, true twin board. It won’t let you down for carving – but won’t be as good for powder as the BSOD and certainly not as good in powder as the Flagship.
But if you like riding powder switch and in your regular direction, then the Assassin Pro could work – but maybe the BSOD would still be a better option overall for what you’re describing. Certainly if you like to ride switch in powder, then the BSOD over the Flagship – but the Flagship over the BSOD if you don’y ride switch in powder.
Overall I’d say, between the Flagship and the BSDO (based on the changes made to the board):
1. The Flagship is a little better in powder (one direction powder) and at speed – but not by heaps
2. Both as good as each other for carving
3. BSOD easier for riding switch
4. BSOD better for jumps
5. From previous models of BSOD, I found it to be nicer to ride in crud and uneven terrain
Overall, I’d say that the BSOD is a more versatile board, but still has it’s strengths in powder, carving, speed – but the Flagship is more specialized towards carving, powder speed and sacrifices other areas to be better there.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your board decision.
I haven’t had the chance to try step ons, so I can’t give you any insight there unfortunately. If you didn’t go down the step on route, then I think something quite stiff for your boots/bindings sounds like it would suit your riding style and the fact that you like to tighten a lot for that responsiveness, if you are on some stiffer gear, then that will really help with that response and might even mean you don’t have to get so tight. Check out the links below for some stiff/responsive boot and binding options.
>>Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
>>Top 5 Freeride Bindings
>>My Top All Mountain (medium-stiff flex) Snowboard Boots
>>My Top 5 Freeride Boots
That’s not to say don’t go Step-On. Just that I can’t really say anything there. The thing that confuses me a little is that the Photon Step-On bundle says “medium” responsiveness on Burton’s website – whereas Burton’s Photon boots (non step-on) are stiffer/more responsive – so I’m not sure if that’s a typo on their part or if they’ve made the Photon Step-On bundle medium instead of stiff – I would have thought they would make it a stiffer option, given that they already have the Ruler as a medium option. Without having tested them, I’m not sure if the Photon Step Ons are actually more responsive or not. But if you go Step On you might want to look into that some more.
Hope this helps
Nate,
I appreciate all of your help. I am going to go with the 159 BSOD. I feel like it is probably the best for me. I will let you know when I am able to get some turns on it. I am still a bit torn on the binding set ups. I work overseas and won’t be home until February so I’ll see if the step ons are back in stock. If they are I’ll give them a shot. If not it just wasn’t meant to be. Thanks again for all of the help.
Brian P.
You’re very welcome Brian.
Would be great to hear what you think of the BSOD once you’ve had a chance to get some turns on it.
Hey nate, great review thx! I currently ride a burton freebird splitboard 162cm 2011.Now i want a pure freeride board offpist for powder and all kind of other snow mostly hard deep snow or soft deepsnow, but never grommets. My boots are 44.5euro 12usa and the back boot is too big for the board and the snow on frontfrontside turns.
Which one would be the right size for me, 82kg 1,82cm height. Imo pyl or fa. TThe size width. Maybe one board that works good in conditions where the freebird sucks.
I have 10 years experience and consider myself advanced-expert. Thx for your help
Hi Bernhard
Thanks for your message.
I think the PYL would be a good choice for you. It’s great in powder, but it’s good in hard/icy conditions. So you’d have those conditions covered with the PYL as well (more so than the FA). I haven’t ridden the Freebird, so I couldn’t say what conditions it doesn’t ride well in – but it’s likely to be more similar to the FA, so the PYL would be a better compliment, IMO.
In terms of size for the PYL, I think the 160W would be a good size for you. It would give you a bit more width, which it sounds like you need (and I’m not surprised the Freebird is a bit narrow for 12s). And in terms of length, for a freeride board, something around 160-163 is what I’d usually recommend for you. And with the PYL being wider, then going on the shorter end of that range is fine, IMO. Even the 160W PYL, however, is going to be pushing it narrow for size 12s – especially if you have quite a straight back foot. It should be ok, but no guarantees. If you had binding angles of like +15/-15 then it would be fine, straighter angles would be cutting it tighter. But it is going to be a good bit wider than the Freebird 162 (255mm waist, 296mm tip, 289mm tail) vs the PYL 160W (260mm waist, 311mm tip and 306mm tail).
If you did end up going FA, I think the 162W would be the best size for you for that board.
Hope this helps
Cool thx so much for your reply Nate!
I will try that. I have salomon faction boa boots and i really like them they are really comfortable. Would you recommend the freeride bindings top 5 from your review for my setup or is there a binding that fits better the pyl setup you recommended?
Hi Bernhard
You’re very welcome.
I think anything from either that Top 5 Freeride bindings list or the following list, would work well with the PYL.
>>Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings
Usually I would say get some stiffer boots for your setup, but if you’re happy with the Faction’s then you could keep using them and see how it goes. That may or may not mean that you prefer softer bindings. If so, then that all-mountain-freeride list might be a better bet for bindings over the Freeride list. But I wouldn’t go softer than the bindings in the all-mountain-freeride list for the PYL.
Hope this helps
Whatsup Nate ..looking for a free ride board since I’ve been jumping more into back country …I’m looking at the jones flagship at the moment ..I’m 6 foot 1 inch and weigh about 168 -170 lbs …what size do u recommend -and what boots and binding would you recommend …I would say I’m just under an advanced rider or maybe just making the advanced category .. a good amount of powder experience but looking to take more backcountry approach to snowboarding
Hi Glenn
Thanks for your message. Flagship is a great board for the backcountry, IMO. Depending on boot size, I would suggest either the 161 or 159W for the flagship. If you have size 10 or less, then the 161. If you have between size 10 and size 11, then we’ll need to look at binding angles. Anything above 11s, and the 159W is the goer – unless they’re like way above, then you’d need something wider – but up to 12s, the 159W should be fine.
In terms of boots and bindings – something with around an 8/10 flex is a good place to start. Personally I don’t like to ride boots and bindings that are softer than my board – can’t be too much stiffer either but preferably no softer. Something 7/10 in flex would be ok, but I wouldn’t go any softer than that. So, 7 and up. In which case, I would check out the following links to get some boot/binding ideas.
>>Top 5 Freeride Bindings (8/10 flex and above)
>>Top 5 All-Mountain-Freeride Bindings (7/10 flex)
>>My Top 5 Freeride Boots (8/10 and above flex)
>>My Top All Mountain (medium-stiff flex) Snowboard Boots (6/10 and 7/10 flex)
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Great site, been riding for 20 years and finally getting rid of my 2001 Forum board 157cm that’s not floating on the pow any longer since I’ve packed on some lbs! I’m going with the NS Chairman and was thinking between the 164 or the 161X. I’m 5’10” 195lbs with a size 10 Vans boot. Live in Colorado go mainly to Keystone. Thoughts between the two, and the length I’m thinking?
Thanks for the feedback
Jon
Hi Jon
Thanks for your message.
I would put you on around a 160, 161 generally, but with this type of board, you can go a little longer than that two.
However, in terms of width, I’d say that the 161X would be too wide. Even if you’re into euro carving and have a zero degree angle on the back, I’d say that something around 255mm, 256mm would be the minimum waist width for size 10s, so you’d want to go that or wider in that case, but I don’t think I’d want to go as wide as 266mm at the waist. And if you’re not into euro carving and/or have more of an an angle on your back foot, you would have the option of going narrower.
So if it was me I would be weighing up between the 160 (256mm waist) and the 164 (257mm waist). There are pros and cons for going with either.
~ The 164 would offer a little more stability at speed and of course, more float in powder.
~ The 160 would be more agile at slower speeds, better for trees (IMO) and better for more freestyle oriented stuff (though it sounds like you’re not really into freestyle, given that you’re looking at this board, so that’s probably not a factor)
I guess the other plus for going 160 is that it would be a smaller adjustment in terms of the change from your current 157.
Hope this gives you more info to go off for your decision.
hey Nate. i picked up a YES PYL last winter and really like it. (replaced my gnu riders choice).tested it out at whistler inbounds and some heli and cat sboarding too. I ride with a narrow stance. im 5’10” and about 215 lbs. To get my stance width i have to use the middle most holes. is that correct? because now i have no option of setting my stance back further at all if i wanted to.
also …my brother is looking into a jones flagship, hes wondering how it compares to the PYL
thanks
Hi Phil
Thanks for your message. Awesome that you’re digging the PYL (hard not to IMO!) – and sweet that you got to take it heli and cat too!
If by middle most holes you mean the holes closest to the center of the board, for both front and back binding, then that’s the narrowest stance you can possibly have on that board. If you were to move your back binding back towards the tail to increase the setback you would also be widening your stance. Let me know if I am understanding your question properly though. Also, if you could let me know what your stance width is and also which length PYL you’re riding, that would help too.
In terms of the Flagship compared to the PYL, I would say the following:
~ The Flagship has a little more when it comes to powder and speed, but I definitely preferred the PYL for carving
~ The PYL has a bit more taper in it, as in a wider nose compared to tail – e.g. for the 162, it has a 300.7mm tail and a 306.3mm tip. The Flagship on the other hand, has much less taper – in the 161 it has a 291mm tail and a 292mm tip (so just 1mm taper).
~ The Flagship is a narrower board. E.g. for the 161 Flagship the waist is 252mm with a 291mm tail and 292mm tip – compared with the PYL 162, which has a 255mm waist, and a 306mm tip and 300mm tail. Even the 164 in the Flagship is narrower than that 162 PYL – 254mm waist with a 294mm tail and 295mm tip.
~ The PYL is great in icy conditions, IMO. The Flagship also isn’t bad but I’d give the PYL 5/5 and the Flagship 4/5 in that respect
Whilst there are quite a few differences, they are more similar than they are different. They are both definitely freeride boards and excel in the same types of riding- but there are quite a few differences with how they achieve that. For example – both boards have a long noses that are rockered but the PYL has a wider nose for better float in powder. The Flagship on the other hand has a narrow nose, but incorporates “spoon” to make it float better in powder.
Hope this helps
By middle most i mean …. back foot holes im using the furthest to the front. And on the front holes im using the furthest back. Its the only way to get the stance width i want. But leaves no options for setting back more. Or even forward. Just doesnt seem to be where i should be mounting them. But pike i said. Only way i can get that narrow stance
Hi Phil
I wouldn’t worry too much about setting the PYL back further if I was you. It’s already setback 1″ (25mm) and that’s just on the effective edge (setbacks are always measured along the effective edge). So you’re actually setback further in terms of the board’s overall length – so essentially when you’re in deep powder, the setback is more than that 1″ suggests (longer nose than tail). If you are comfortable in your stance at that narrow point, then I wouldn’t be too concerned about not being able to setback further, unless you know that really like it – and if so, yeah you’d have to go wider to achieve that.
Hey Nate,
Great site. I think it is fantastic that you are helping so many riders find a board that suits them well. Thank you for that.
I my case I am leaning towards a PYL but am a little unsure about the best size. I’m 5 ‘10.5″ and about 173 lbs. I’m rocking 10.5 Burton Imperials which are supposed to have a reduced footprint but I am not sure how much that matters. I usually ride Vail or Breck with the occasional Utah trip.
I guess my choices would be between 159 and 162. I am leaning towards 159 since I’m not a local and only get 2 or 3 trips a season so Powder is not guaranteed but trees are always fun. But I don’t know. One second I think 159 will be too short and/or narrow and the next that 162 is too long.
My current board is a 14/15 156 Arbor Coda rocker (Before that a 2011 158 NS SL ). The Coda is still a lot of fun but I’m looking for something that carves well and is a bit faster for some bombing fun that will still do well in trees and when I’m lucky enough to get powder. I’ll keep the Coda but would prefer my next board to be daily driver capable thus the PYL. I don’t have much experience with camber outside of the NS CRC but I’d love to give RCR a try.
Your thoughts?
– Jason
Hi Jason
Thanks for your message.
It’s a tough one between those two. I would put you on around a 159,160 for all-mountain riding for your specs. For freeriding, you can go all-mountain length or a little longer – so the 162 is definitely an option. If you were to going to be seeing powder/big mountain riding a lot, I would definitely be leaning towards the 162. But since it sounds like you won’t necessarily see powder all the time, and because shorter is better for trees, IMO, the 159 becomes a more tempting option.
I don’t think you’ll have any issues width-wise. I rode the PYL 159 with non-low-profile 10s. With low-profile 10.5s you should be fine. Also given that the 159 is wider overall than your 156 Coda 2015 and your 158 NS SL 2011, then, unless you’ve had any issues with those boards, I’d say width isn’t an issue.
So overall, I would be leaning towards 159, just – it just gives you a bit more all-round riding ability, IMO. It won’t be as good as the 162 when you do get those powder days – but it will still be great for riding powder, even in the 159 size – this board is great in powder even without adding size.
Hope this helps
Thanks Nate.
I pulled the trigger on a 159 while I can still find one. Can’t wait to try it out.
– Jason
You’re very welcome Jason. Hope you enjoy your new deck! Let me know what you think once you’ve had a chance to ride it
Hi Nate!
First of all I would like to thank you for your effort maintaining this awesome page (bookmarked for good!) and helping us all posting our questions. Please don’t ever give it up!
I’m 180cm 90kg snowboarder, size 11 US Burton Driver X boots with ca. 14 years of experience . This isn’t as peachy as it would seem at the first glance. Because I live in PolandI can only do actual snowboarding in Italy / Austria for a week-two per season. Local conditions are just a waste of time.
For last 8yrs (i think) I’ve been riding K2 Illusion from 2007 (155cm) and I was pretty happy with it – the only problem is there are more holes than actual slide by now (marvellous Polish “grooming”…).
I enjoy speed (bombing?) and quick carving on freshly groomed snow – that’s my #1. To my disappointment that only last a few hours in popular resorts so I need a board that will perform well on uneven and even a bit icy terrain in the second half of the day. That’s 90% of my snowboarding business.
I do like to hit backcountry from time to time, but it’s not more than 10%.
I almost never go to park, and if i do i only do some jumping basic tricks.
I do switch from time to time because after rough day on the slope my right (front) leg’s Fibularis brevis hurts.
I am going to exchange my board (cpt. obvious) this season. This seemed as an easy task at first (i was just planning to drop in any burton store and buy “stiff” board), but after spending 2 days reading through your posts (and others comments) I discovered I hadn’t knew s**t.
After reading your rankings (https://snowboardingprofiles.com/the-top-freeride-snowboards-my-top-5 , https://snowboardingprofiles.com/the-top-all-mountain-snowboards-my-top-10 & https://snowboardingprofiles.com/my-top-6-aggressive-all-mountain-snowboards)
Based on your guide how to choose right length I came up with 162 +1-2cm for freeride for me, unfortunately almost none of the boards I found had length 164 and they ended up on 162 (some with 162W option).
I picked up a few options (rated top to bottom) and I would really love to hear your expert’s opinion:
* Burton Flight Attendant 162 – however you mentioned a few times is not as good on icy snow
* Burton Custom X 162 (a bit expensive though so I need a good reason to spend that much money for it :))
* CAPiTA Black Snowboard Of Death 162 or 164W (both are hard to find, so far I had no luck)
* Jones Explorer 162 (however it seems a bit too soft – flex 6 – for my riding style)
* GNU Billy Goat
* Yes Pick Your Line 162 (so far I couldn’t find it online)
Hi Peter
Thanks for your message!
In terms of length, I think something around 162 is going to be a good length for you. It’s nice to add a bit of length on a freeride board, but the biggest reason to do it is for deep powder. As you say only 10% of your time is spent in the backcountry, then it’s not as advantageous to add that length. You get a bit more stability at speed with a bit of extra length as well, but at 162 and with the type of boar you’re looking at, you will should be getting something that’s plenty stable at speed. Another reason why 162, rather than 164, is probably a better option, is that you’re coming from a 155cm. Moving to a 162 will be an easier transition than 164.
In terms of width, with US11s, you’re kind of on the cuff between wide and regular. With Burton’s boots though (low profile) you could say you’re on about a 10.5 – so that gives you more leeway in terms of getting on a regular width board. If you ride with binding angles that have little to no angle on the back foot (e.g. 0 degrees, 3 degrees) then I would still go at least 258mm in terms of waist width. You can go narrower with more of an angle on the back foot.
~ Flight Attendant 162 (254mm waist) – ticks all the boxes (assuming you have a back binding angle of 9 degrees or more – otherwise might be too narrow – although the 2007 K2 Illusion 155 only has a 249mm waist and if you’ve been riding that with no issues, then the 162 Flight Attendant might be fine for you, even with a straight back foot). The only slight concern would be edge-hold in hard/icy conditions. But that’s not to say that it’s terrible. It’s just not as strong in that area as others on this list, like the YES PYL or Rossi XV. Proabably the least in this list – but still ok. I didn’t find it the best in icy patches, but in hard snow it was ok. I’d say pretty much as good as the Custom X in terms of edge-hold.
~ Custom X 162 (256mm)- stiffer than the Flight Attendant but also not as good in powder – it’s all camber (whereas the Flight Attendant has a rockered nose). And as you say you need a good reason to spend that much – if it was between the Custom X and Flight Attendant, I’d say go Flight Attendant for your purposes. The Custom X is probably slightly more “bomby” but the Flight Attendant is still a great carver and great at speed. And it’s got it over the Custom X in terms of powder (and price of course)
~ Capita BSOD 162 (259mm)- I’d stick with 162 here if you were to go with this one – and I’m not sure it comes in 164W (which year’s model are you looking at?). And the 162 should be wide enough anyway. Also note, that the 2018 BSOD is a changed board from the 2017 model. It’s more all-mountain – still freeride-ish but it’s swung in a more all-mountain direction. Probably the same concern in terms of hard/icy conditions as the Flight Attendant – i.e. not amazing in icy conditions. But that would be the only potential thing. Otherwise, a good option.
~ Jones Explorer 162 (256mm) – I found this a little stiffer than the 6/10 suggests – but not by that much – maybe 6.5/10 – so if that sounds too soft for you, which it probably is, especially if you’re donning Driver X boots – then that would be a reason to cross it off. Otherwise could definitely work.
~ GNU Billy Goat 162 (253mm waist) or 162 (262mm waist) – this could definitely work for you. The size would depend on binding angles – if you have a straight back foot, then the 162W. If you have like a 12 or 15 degree angle on the back binding then 162. Good edge hold in hard/icy conditions. Still not as good as the PYL, but probably all you will need. Like the Custom X, you sacrifice a little in powder compared to a freeride board like the FA, BSOD or PYL but it can still definitely ride powder and if you’re only looking at 10%, then it’s probably good enough there.
~ YES Pick Your Line 162 (255mm waist) – this is great in icy conditions, in my experience, and also just a great board all-round, IMO. The only real downside to this option is if you can’t find it!
Hope this helps with your decision.
Wow, thank you very much for such a prompt reply!
I will follow your advice and stick to 162/162W then.
Regarding Capita BSOD – you are right, I must have confused it with another board that had 164W option.
After reading your post I narrowed down my choices to:
1. YES PYL – so far i have only found it on blue-tomatoes. It seems YES is not known in Poland at all, i went through like 20+ shops and most of them don’t even have this brand (sigh).
2. FA – Burton is quite popular, so no issues finding it. Wanted to ask you though – this board features The Channel bindings. I know you can mount regulars (I have Burton Flow Re:Flex) but do they go well wich such combination? I’ve bought those bindings quite recently and intend to use them a few more seasons.
3. GNU Billy Goat – less popular than Burton, but I found it in a few shops.
Based on your comments it seems YES PYL would be best for me?
In case I cannot find it (keep fingers crossed) it seems Goat is next best option. Are there any major differences in models 2017 and 2018? I found the former in nice price.
Reading both reviews (Burton & GNU) it seems GNU performs a little better on icy snow (so good morning) and Burton on uneven terrain (late morning / afternoon) – correct?
Hi Peter
It sounds like the PYL isn’t that known in Europe, but yeah I’d say that it would probably be the best option, but the others are still good options, if you can’t find it.
In terms of fitting bindings to the Flight Attendant – as long as your bindings are channel compatible they will work fine with the board. Maybe not as good as EST bindings would, but still fine. I have Burton Re:Flex bindings that I use on a Burton board, and it works well.
2017 Billy Goat is pretty much the same as 2018 Billy Goat – there might be some subtle tweaks but nothing major as far as I can tell – so if you can get a 2017 model at a cheaper price, then that’s a good option.
Yeah, I’d say Billy Goat better in hard/icy conditions and Flight Attendant just slightly better in uneven chopped up snow – a little easier to handle in the late afternoon when everything’s chopped up.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
I managed to find YES PYL (both amazon.de and blue-tomato for people looking for it).
I would like to again thank you for our comments and expert judgement – I am looking forward to test it soon 🙂
You’re very welcome Peter.
Glad you were able to find it and thanks for sharing where it’s available in Europe.
Let me know what you think of it once you’ve had a chance to ride it
Nate,
Thanks for the reviews. I currently ride the Man’s Board 156 and love it’s style of ride, fast and aggressive. However, I find myself wanting a powder board this season. I’m debating between a 159 Magtek XV and Yes PYL 162. Mostly West Coast riding and advanced. 5’7” 175 lbs. I’m assuming I can’t go wrong with either. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Hi Paul
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, you can’t really go wrong with either, IMO. You’ll definitely get better powder performance out of either of them – and still great for carving.
In terms of sizing, I think you’re on the right track. I would put you on around a 157 for all-mountain size (which is pretty much what you’re on) and, especially for riding powder, you can go a little longer for a freeride board. So something around 160 is probably a good size to look at for you.
The 159 Rossignol XV will actually have a slightly shorter effective edge than the 156 Man’s Board – just the way the nose is long and lifted (which makes for some awesome powder riding – but just so you know you’d be dropping just a little in terms of effective edge (117cm on the XV compared to 118.5cm on the 156 Man’s Board).
Same goes for the PYL if you went 159 for that board, but not quite by as much (118cm on the 159 vs 118.5cm on the Man’s board – so pretty close to the same effective edge – just more length in the nose for float in powder. There are other things that make it better in powder (like it’s setback stance, narrow sinky tail and wider floaty nose) but nose length is an important factor.
But you were looking at the 162 PYL – in that case you would be looking at an increase in effective edge, as well as overall length (120.5cm effective edge). This is getting on the longer side for you, but assuming you were still going to have your Man’s Board for non-powder days and would use this for powder days, then this length would be doable. However, if you were looking to replace your Man’s Board and just use this as your one board, then I would go the 159 (either for the XV or the PYL).
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
Thanks for the detailed quick response. I plan on keeping my Man’s Board and not replacing it as I enjoy the aggressive all mountain boards but obviously they aren’t a 10/10 in powder. If I was doing nothing but steep powder runs I think the 162 PYL would be the choice but it sounds like the XV 159 will be more fun in the trees with the shorter effective edge and still be able to handle steep powder runs well and possibly my go to board or will the 162 PYL be better in the trees. Of the two powder boards, which one will handle the end of day, leg burning, tracked out powder runs better?
Hi Paul
Yeah, I would say the shorter Rossi XV (159) in the trees vs the 162 PYL, would probably say 159 PYL over 159 PYL, but between the 159 XV and 162 PYL, I’d say XV.
I like the PYL a little better than the XV for tracked out powder – but I wouldn’t say there was too much in it.
Hey Nate,
Great work yer doing.
I rip Whistler and I’ve been fortunate enough to ride both the PYL and Flagship (and a pair of Skunkapes). I found that the PYL’s underbite was tricky to negotiate with my riding style in Kybers or on chunder but once I got to dropping cornices into open bowls it blew every other board out of the water. But that underbite. Tough to dial it. I found that I kept going over the handlebars as the core wasn’t stiff enough in the nose to handle my 240lbs of moose-meat. My wife experienced the same with the Hel Yes. It took her a couple of seasons to get the hang of it but now she’s not giving it up for the world.
But the Flagship (169W). That board changed my riding completely for the better. It just wants to charge so damn hard. I gave up a small amount of performance in the open bowls but honestly, the gains in the trees and on chunder were worth it. The magnetraction dug into any turn I initiated and I could transfer from edge to edge with a thought. I never doubted this thing in the air and it’s landing gear is phenomenal. Side note: I ripped the core apart with a torsional failure after 1 season so bad that the base ripped lengthways from V-stringer to V-stringer. Jones was kind enough to warranty it but I’m still on my old trusty Skunkape while I wait.
I think your choices are on point but I wanted to say that at this level of construction and tech, any of these boards are gonna perform exceptionally well. I think it comes down to the rider, terrain, riding-style, and skill level.
I’ll keep checking in for next season. Have a ripper season, man.
Hey Squatchie
Thanks for your message. Appreciate the input and your insights. Yeah, totally, with the level of construction and tech they’re at at the moment, there are a lot of great freeride boards available – these were just my favorites, and you’re right riding style, terrain, skill level all come into it for sure.
Hope you get your replacement Flagship back soon and the rest of your season is awesome too!
Wow, great reviews! I’m in the market for a new board and wanted to get your thoughts. I’m 5’11”, 195 lbs with a size 9.5 boot. I spend 15-20 days up in Mammoth, CA and another 5-10 days in Utah (PC or Snowbird) and Colorado (Vail or Aspen). I currently ride a 2016 Rossignol XV Magtek, 163 cm. I love this board, it’s fast/stable and super quick edge to edge and I feel comfortable bombing steeps (50-60% of what I do), going into trees (10-15%), riding bumps (10-15%) or cruising with my kids or friends (20-30%). I generally start with advanced runs (i.e. blacks or double blacks) and then hang back and cruise with friends. I never go into the park and only occasionally ride switch. I’ll hit jumps on the mountain but not in the park. I will say that when I’m cruising, the XV can be a bit tiring as it can have a mind of it’s own if you are not somewhat engaged. I’m wondering if the Yes PYL or Jones Flagship might be a good next deck for me to try? Curious to get your opinion on board and length? Thanks!
Hi Ken
Thanks for your message.
I find it’s typically the case with any freeride board, that you’ve got to be dialled-in and they really want to ride fast and precise. I don’t know that anything else in a freeride board would be any less tiring when you’re trying to just cruise and do something easy going. That’s my experience anyway. Great for bombing and for riding powder and getting the most out of your board – but you’ve got to put in to get it out with freeride boards.
I think something around that 162, 163 mark is a good length for your specs for this kind of board, so I don’t think you’re going too long or anything like that.
The only other thing that might make a difference is the width. On 9.5s the width of the 163 Rossi XV might be getting a bit wide, particularly if you’re riding with binding angles with a reasonable angle on the back foot (e.g. if you were riding like +15/-15 or +18/-9 or something like that). If you’re riding with a straighter back foot, I don’t think it would be too much of an issue. But if you do feel like maybe it is a little wide (which would certainly contribute to it feeling tiring) then the Flagship would be your best bet from this list. The others on this list wouldn’t be noticeably narrower (some wider) overall in suitable lengths.
The Flagship 161, if you were happy to go a little shorter or the 164, if you wanted to go a bit longer would both be narrower options than the XV.
Hope this helps
Hi, thanks for the feedback! My binding set-up keeps my back foot fairly straight (+18/-3). So I should be okay there. What’s tiring is not turning the XV while cruising, I find that if I let my legs relax too much while riding a groomer straight and fast for example, it’ll want to turn on its own! Not a big deal for a small portion of my riding time as I love riding my XV everywhere else! I appreciate the response and look forward to reading your future reviews, thanks again for the advice!
You’re very welcome Ken.
Yeah width shouldn’t be too much of an issue in that case
Hey Nate,
Trying to decide between the Never Summer Chairman and the Flight attendant. Can you give me the negative points of each. I am intermediate skill, ride a few times a year on various conditions (from powder to ice). Which would work better?
Hi James
Thanks for your message.
I’d say that the Chairman is a little better in icy conditions than the FA but the FA better in powder than the Chairman (though it’s still good there for sure).
I wouldn’t consider either intermediate boards though – I’d say more like advanced to expert kinds of boards. But if you’re a solid intermediate rider and you’re quite athletic/strong, then they would be doable. Neither are the stiffest most unforgiving boards, for freeride boards, but they are still relatively stiff and relatively technical in terms of their camber profiles – so you want to have a solid technique down to get the best of them.
I would say, for you, if I had to choose between them, that I’d go for the Chairman, just because of the added edge-hold over the FA in icy conditions. But otherwise, there’s very little in it.
Hope this helps