If you’re looking for a board to tear up the whole mountain like it’s a park, then check out below our list of the best 10 All-Mountain Freestyle snowboards for 2024-2025.
As is tradition here at SnowboardingProfiles.com the boards will each be given a rating out of 100.
Category Stats
Of the 29 current model all-mtn freestyle snowboards that we tested:
OK, so here’s the top 10 for 2025!
#10: Lib Tech Off Ramp
Flex: Medium (5.5/10)
Feel: Semi Locked-In and semi-aggressive
Smart rating score: 85.4/100
*TOP TIER HARD/ICY SNOW OPTION
Starting off our list at #10, we have Lib Tech's Off Ramp snowboard.
The Off Ramp is an aggressive-ish (but not aggressive enough for the aggressive all-mountain freestyle list) board with great pop and really decent on a carve and at speed.
At its best when getting big air and stomping landings.
Score Breakdown for the Off Ramp
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Carving | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Turns | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Switch | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Speed | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Spins | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Butters | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Jibbing | 3 | 3/5 |
| Crud etc | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Trees | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Pow | 2 | 2/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 85.4/100 |
#9: Yes Airmaster
Flex: Medium-Soft (4/10)
Feel: Loose and playful
Smart rating score: 86/100
Next up is the YES Airmaster. This year Lobster got absorbed by Yes. so, Yes. have some very different boards in their lineup - the Airmaster being one of them.
At the opposite end of the spectrum to the Off Ramp (within this category), the Airmaster is the most playful board in this list.
If you like you're riding loose and playful, then the Airmaster will give you that and allow creativity that's only limited by your imagination.
>>See Full Review
Score Breakdown for the Airmaster
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4 | 16/20 |
| Carving | 3 | 6/10 |
| Turns | 5 | 10/10 |
| Switch | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Speed | 2.5 | 5/10 |
| Spins | 4 | 8/10 |
| Butters | 4 | 8/10 |
| Jibbing | 4 | 4/5 |
| Crud etc | 3 | 3/5 |
| Trees | 4.5 | 4.5/5 |
| Pow | 3 | 3/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 86/100 |
#8: Bataleon Whatever
Flex: Medium (4.5/10)
Feel: Semi-Loose and semi-playful
Smart rating score: 86.5/100
Next up, at #8 we have Bataleon's Whatever. After the Airmaster (see #9 above) and alongside the Jones Tweaker (see #5 below) and Never Summer V-Twin (see #7 below) the Whatever is the next most playful on this list.
It's pretty soft flexing and nice and slashy and playful. It's not a bomber, but it does feel pretty decent on a carve, especially for its flex. The 3BT helps to make it better than average in powder too.
If you're looking for a playful, slashy, buttery but versatile snowboard, the Whatever is worth considering.
Score Breakdown for the Whatever
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4 | 16/20 |
| Carving | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Turns | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Switch | 4 | 8/10 |
| Speed | 3 | 6/10 |
| Spins | 4 | 8/10 |
| Butters | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Jibbing | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Crud etc | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Trees | 4 | 4/5 |
| Pow | 3 | 3/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 86.5/100 |
#7: Never Summer V-Twin
Flex: Medium (4.5/10)
Feel: Semi-Loose and semi-playful
Smart rating score: 87.6/100
Never Summer's V-Twin is new for 2025 and rounds out the more playful boards in this list. While Never Summer describes it as a 6/10 flex board that's a little more aggressive than it is playful, I found it to be softer and more playful.
But that's not a bad thing, if that's the feel you're going for. And this board is super fun to ride!
Quick whippy turns and spins, and a snappy feel characterized this board for me. Butters, jibs and ollies were all super fun on this board. Nimble and with easy pop, I loved it for side-hits and exploring trees.
>>See Full Review (review coming soon)
Score Breakdown for the V-Twin
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4 | 16/20 |
| Carving | 3 | 6/10 |
| Turns | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Switch | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Speed | 3 | 6/10 |
| Spins | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Butters | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Jibbing | 4 | 4/5 |
| Crud etc | 3 | 3/5 |
| Trees | 4.5 | 4.5/5 |
| Pow | 2.5 | 2.5/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 87.6/100 |
#6: Capita Spring Break Resort Twin
Flex: Medium (5/10)
Feel: Stable and balanced between playful and aggressive
Smart rating score: 87.6/100
Capita's Spring Break Resort Twin gives a new narrower take on their Spring Break Powder Twin. I fell for this board the moment I started riding it and straight away brought back nostalgia for the Capita Asymulator, which this has a similar personality to.
Capable everywhere but particularly good for jumps and side-hits.
Score Breakdown for the Resort Twin
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Carving | 3 | 6/10 |
| Turns | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Switch | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Speed | 3 | 6/10 |
| Spins | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Butters | 4 | 8/10 |
| Jibbing | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Crud etc | 3 | 3/5 |
| Trees | 4 | 4/5 |
| Pow | 2.5 | 2.5/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 87.6/100 |
#5: Jones Tweaker
Flex: Medium (4.5/10)
Feel: Semi-Loose and semi-playful
Smart rating score: 87.6/100
Our #5 offering, rounding out the more playful options in this list, the Jones Tweaker, is Jones' only true twin snowboard.
When you ride this thing, you don't feel like your on a Jones, it is something quite different from them. It's pretty soft and really playful.
If you like your riding playful and creative and want to take that to the whole mountain, including but not limited to the park, the Tweaker is a really fun option.
Score Breakdown for the Tweaker
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4 | 16/20 |
| Carving | 3 | 6/10 |
| Turns | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Switch | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Speed | 3 | 6/10 |
| Spins | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Butters | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Jibbing | 4 | 4/5 |
| Crud etc | 3 | 3/5 |
| Trees | 4 | 4/5 |
| Pow | 3 | 3/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 87.6/100 |
#4: Never Summer Easy Rider
Flex: Medium (6/10)
Feel: Stable and semi-aggressive
Smart rating score: 88.2/100
Never Summer's Easy Rider, our entry at #4 is a little more on the aggressive side than most on this list, like the Off Ramp (see #10 above) and the RC C3 (See #2 below). But not something you have to always ride aggressively.
And while it's really good for carving and big air, it is still pretty easy to do more playful things, like buttering.
It's a nice, versatile ride that can take on the whole mountain, but with a distinctively freestyle flavor.
Score Breakdown for the Easy Rider
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Carving | 4 | 8/10 |
| Turns | 4 | 8/10 |
| Switch | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Speed | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Spins | 4 | 8/10 |
| Butters | 4 | 8/10 |
| Jibbing | 3 | 3/5 |
| Crud etc | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Trees | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Pow | 2.5 | 2.5/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 88.2/100 |
#3: Rome Agent Pro
Flex: Medium (6/10)
Feel: Stable and balanced between playful and aggressive
Smart rating score: 88.2/100
In at #3, we have Rome's Agent Pro.
The Agent Pro is super consistent across all the things we test for (powder excluded) and was just so reliable in so many different scenarios. But at the same time, it was a fun, adrenaline inducing rider that really excelled when getting air.
>>See Full Review (review coming soon)
Score Breakdown for the Agent Pro
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Carving | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Turns | 4 | 8/10 |
| Switch | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Speed | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Spins | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Butters | 4 | 8/10 |
| Jibbing | 3 | 3/5 |
| Crud etc | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Trees | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Pow | 2.5 | 2.5/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 88.2/100 |
#2: GNU RC C3
Flex: Medium (6/10)
Feel: Stable and semi-aggressive
Smart rating score: 90.4/100
*TOP TIER HARD/ICY SNOW OPTION
The big brother of the Rider's Choice, the RC C3 packs more camber and along with it more pop than the RC. It has different strengths and weaknesses, and while both are wicked boards for all-mountain-freestyle riding, my preference is the RC C3.
It's semi-aggressive, but something you can still slow down and play around.
Along with the Off Ramp (see #10 above) and the Greats (see #1 below), the RC C3, is the equal best hard/icy snow option on this list.
The C2X version (stable and balanced between playful and aggressive) is also a great option. I have included scores for both models below.
Score Breakdown for the RC C3
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 5 | 20/20 |
| Carving | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Turns | 4 | 8/10 |
| Switch | 5 | 10/10 |
| Speed | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Spins | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Butters | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Jibbing | 3 | 3/5 |
| Crud etc | 4 | 4/5 |
| Trees | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Pow | 2 | 2/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 90.4/100 |
#1: Yes The Greats Uninc
Flex: Medium (6/10)
Feel: Stable and balanced between playful and aggressive
Smart rating score: 92.1/100
*TOP TIER HARD/ICY SNOW OPTION
And finally, in at #1, is the YES Greats Uninc.
A board this stable at speed and with the kind of carving ability it displays, has no right being as buttery and playful as it is, when you want it to be.
Not a powder hound but if you’re looking for an asym twin deck you can carve up the whole mountain with, when you're not hitting every natural hit you can find and lapping through the park, then you might have found your match in the YES Greats.
This board is my go-to on most days without powder, and particularly when there are icy conditions.
Score Breakdown for the Greats
| FACTOR | Rating (/5) | Weighted |
|---|---|---|
| Jumps | 4.5 | 18/20 |
| Carving | 4 | 8/10 |
| Turns | 4 | 8/10 |
| Switch | 5 | 10/10 |
| Speed | 3.5 | 7/10 |
| Spins | 4.5 | 9/10 |
| Butters | 4 | 8/10 |
| Jibbing | 3.5 | 3.5/5 |
| Crud etc | 4 | 4/5 |
| Trees | 4 | 4/5 |
| Pow | 2.5 | 2.5/5 |
| TOTAL (after normalizing): | 92.1/100 |
Over To You
Thanks for reading and I hope this post has helped to narrow down some options if you’re looking for an all-mountain-freestyle snowboard.
Be sure to check out the score breakdown's to see which might suit you the best.
If you want to learn more about any of these boards or check out current prices, check out the links at the top of each board description above.
Hi Nate,
Thanks for a great site with very helpful content! I’m hoping you can help me out with a choice.
I’m 187cm, 95-98kg, US11,5. Looking at your definitions I’m an intermediate 5 transitioning into 6 in some areas, some not (yet). All-mountain-freestyle riding.
Not looking for high speed, and I don’t think I’ll ever be ready for big jumps/tricks.
I ride groomers but take all chances I can to find side-hits, so there’s typically quite some weaving in and out of trees. I do enjoy some mellow speed carving, riding switch, and focus on small jumps, spins, and trying to butter. Mainly goofing around on and between groomers.
I basically want to keep progressing in the above.
I’ve got a 156W Bataleon Disaster and it’s serving me very well. It’s very soft though and I’m thinking about a second board to complement it, maybe leave the Disaster for the slowest and most playful days (riding with my kids). I’ve had a couple of hybrid rocker boards but never liked them as much. The “pivoting” feeling isn’t my preference I guess. And while I get the feeling 3BT might simply allow me to cheat wrt technique, it seem to suit me well.
Do you have any suggestion for a board to complement the Disaster? Maybe something that can handle a carve a bit better, have more pop and stability, still good for switch, butters, side-hits, small spins? Something with “3D” shape of some kind.
I’ve looked at Evil Twin, Evil Twin+, and the Whatever, also Jones Tweaker but maybe that’s all just too similar to the Disaster?
Hi Joakim, thanks for your message.
I would say that the Evil Twin would be the closest to the Disaster there. It’s a little stiffer, and I think you’d notice the difference, but probably not enough of a difference, to be honest. The Evil Twin+, Whatever and Tweaker you should notice a bigger difference and those would work for you, IMO, given your style of riding. I’d throw the Goliath in the mix there too. And I would up the size a little too. I would put your “typical all-mountain” length at around 163, but you wouldn’t have to go that long, given the style and that you’re not looking for high speed, but I would up the length to:
Evil Twin+: 159W
Tweaker: 160W
Whatever: 159W
Goliath: 158W or 161W
Hope this helps with your decision (if it didn’t come too late, sorry really behind right now!)
Thanks for your reply!
You were just in time actually. I got the opportunity to choose between ET, ET+, Whatever, and Goliath on my way to a resort this week. With your suggestions, and having spent an inordinate amount of time cross-referencing your reviews and comments across your pages, I chose a 159W Whatever. (The Goliath seemed a fraction more suitable perhaps, but I simply don’t like the 2025 graphics.)
Paired it with Union Strata and Ultra (softer 2022 generation), and I think the Ultras is a better match for my riding.
It has a distinctly different feel to the Disaster and switching between the two, the Whatever unsurprisingly is the better board for all-mountain duties. I don’t really feel I give up anything substantial wrt freestyle things (given my ability level), unless it’s a dedicated session to practice presses. Even then the Whatever is a bit more consistent, albeit more effort. I kind of pass the point where I’m overpressing the Disaster quite quickly, the transition is more predictable on the Whatever. I find the Whatever easier and more consistent riding switch, but this could also be me liking more how it turns (switch carving worked all the sudden for example).
In the end, the increase in camber and stiffness, and the positive experience this was… I’m curious how I’d like an even stiffer board. Expect more questions in the future 😀
Thanks for great reviews and all your effort discussing options with people!
Hey Nate!
Did you try the Indoor Survival since they added the titanium string? I just wanted to ask because I wondered how you rated the Indoor Survival in comparison to the DOA or the Spring Break Resort Twin. I tested a lot of boards in the last years and have to say the Indoor Survival is really superb if you looking for a board that can handle big jumps, carving but also buttering and jibbing. The biggest highlight for me was the extrem powerful pop which gives back so much more than you put into it.
I’m really excited to hear your opinion about it! But as we „talk“, which all mountain freestyle board has the best pop in your opinion? Even if I’m super happy with the Indoor Survival I‘m thinking about trying the Agent Pro or the Super DOA, just to know how they feel under foot.
Thank you for your opinion!
Hi Stefan, thanks for your message.
Yes, I tested the 2024 Indoor Survival and the 2023 model as well (I believe the titanium booster was first added for the 2022 model). I did think the Indoor Survival had really good pop, but in my experience, the Super DOA had more. It could be partly that the Super DOA is noticeably lighter, but from my experience I felt the Super DOA had a bit more.
Hi Nate,
first of all thanks for all the information gathered on this page!
I’ve worked my way through most of the reviews. However im still not sure what fits me the best.
Part of the problem is that I’m not sure what I should be looking for.
When it comes to regular riding I would describe myself as intermediate-advanced. But lately just riding down the slopes got a little boring so I’m trying to learn switch, and want to have a little more fun with advancing in buttering, side hits and some park. Learning switch has become a little frustrating because my current board (~18 years old Nitro Team 162w, Traditional Camber) seems a little unforgiving for my current switch skill level and I end up catching a lot of edges. Also it seems a little stiff for all the other stuff.
I’m mostly riding with friends, sometimes in the park, but more often on regular slopes. I can see myself being in the park more often, but it’s going to be around 50/50 park/slopes I guess.
I’m 6’6 with ~190lbs
Shoe size is 13US so should be a wide board
Stance is 23,8 inch on my board
Now I don’t know which direction I should go:
Should i get a forgiving freestyle true twin board, to get my switch game dialed in and to have a playful board. (Learning switch is kind of my main priority right now, so I can get into 180s, butters, and all that fun stuff after). Surely it wont be my do-it-all board by I’ll still have my old board for regular day or powder stuff…
Or should I go for an all-mountain freestyle board to be set up better for regular slopes, trading in some of the forgiveness of the board, depending on the choice.
Or should I even go back to a beginner board for the switch sessions?
It does not have to be a board that I’ll own forever. It could also be a board to get an entry in these fields with an upgrade board later on, once I’m more confident and know which direction i want to go.
Hope you could maybe help me in which direction I should go, or even recommend a board. Thank you very much in advance!
Hi Lorenz, thanks for your message.
I’m a fan of going with a more forgiving, softer freestyle board to start with, to get your switch game dialed in on that and then you can either keep it for park sessions or sell it and move to a more all-mountain-freestyle board. If you’re willing to do that, which it sounds like you are, then that’s the best approach, IMO. I would look at some of these options as a start. Maybe not the Jackpot though, just as its not quite as forgiving.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the answer!
Worked it down to 2 boards now:
First one being the disaster 156w which sounds like a lot of fun and forgiving.
The second one is the Jones tweaker 157w for a bit more all mountain strength.
Do you think the tweaker with its 3d shape would be forgiving enough for me or would you recommend going with the disaster?
Hi Lorenz
I think the Tweaker would be forgiving enough, particularly in that size for you, if you wanted something with a bit more all-mountain strength.
Hello, Nate!
I`m not quite experienced rider, only 2 seasons behind. I am planning to buy a new snowboard to replace my k2 raygun 164w, that i began to understand that 164w is hard to use for me.
Watching for bataleon thunderstorm 159w for speed\powder\freeride and bataleon disaster 153w for spins\small jumps\switch\butters.
Is it right for me?
weight 165 lbs
height 6`1
boots: nitro anthem tls 10.5 US
Hi Tim, thanks for your message.
I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 159/160, so the 159W would work for sure. But I think you’ve got a good chance of fitting on the 158 width-wise. You don’t necessarily need to go wide. But would depend on your binding angles and how deep you like to carve. If you could let me know those 2 things, that would help determine whether the 158 was an option for you.
For your freestyle board I’d go up to 6cm shorter than your typical length, so the 153W would work for sure, IMO. And in this case you are better going with the 153W, rather than the 154, IMO, as the 154 probably is too narrow.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
Stumbled across your website whilst looking for a new board for the next season. I’m currently 170cm 70kgs US Size 9.5 using Burton Photon StepOn boots.
I mainly do resort runs in Japan and now that I’m skiing mostly with my toddlers I spend most of my time on greens and reds. So I’m trying to learn more ground tricks and have fun with them. Or maybe some tree runs here and there .
Been using a 154 Never Summer Evo 2012 , I really loved how soft it was to press and butter. After looking at your reviews I’m really interested in trying the Yes Greats Uninc or maybe the NA Proto Synthesis. How do these compare to my old board?
Hey Gerald, thanks for your message.
I never rode the Evo, but it looks relatively similar to the Snowtrooper, which I’ve ridden a few times. Based on that and that it was rated a 4/10 flex, from what I could find, you’ll likely find the Greats and Proto Synthesis stiffer (more like 6/10 flex). Still quite buttery, but overall stiffer. If you’re looking for that softer, easy to butter feeling, I would look at the Proto Slinger, rather than Synthesis. And from YES, you could go something like the Typo or the Dicey. Or check out some options on this list.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate! Super grateful for your exhaustive detail in these reviews…
Which board would you recommend for plowing through mixed terrain (icy groomers turned mashed potatoes) on a small, midwestern resort:
Yes the Greats
or
Never Summer Proto Synthesis.
Which is more damp?
Which has better edge control?
Please help!
Hey Ryan, thanks for your message.
The Greats, in my experience, is better in icy conditions and better edge control. In terms of dampness, I would say it’s really close, but I found the Proto Synthesis a touch damper. But the gap is a little wider for the icy edge hold than it is for dampness.
Hope this helps with your decision
Which board would do better at Alyeska Resort in Alaska this weekend? I’m hearing it’s a soft snow this time of year… would the Synth be better suited for variable terrain?
Hey Ryan
I’d still personally take the Greats for soft snow and variable terrain. But there’s not a lot in it.
Hi Nate – first I have to start with saying that you’re really awesome. Love reading your stuff, super informative. I wanted to ask you opinion given your vast knowledge.
Shopping for a new board, a one board solution. I don’t ride as much anymore to justify two sets. 37yo, 5’7 and 150lbs. I’ve been riding for 25 years and lately I mostly stay on groomers, love carving, occasional side jumps and off piste. No interest in park, and ride switch very rarely. I don’t want a board that requires too much effort anymore, something easygoing and playful with a good edge hold (prefer camber boards)
I demoed two this year: loved Salomon assassin, didn’t like Super DOA (found not playful enough, too much work to keep it fun). Reading your reviews, thinking that Yes Standard or the Greats can be great options too.
I think I narrowed to assassin, yes standard or yes the greats. What would you suggest? Really appreciate it!
Hi Berkan, thanks for your message.
Apologies for the slow reponse. Was already behind with a lot of gear to test, then had some family dramas. Hope my response isn’t too late.
I think all 3 would be options for sure. I would say the Standard and Assassin are a little more easy going and playful than the Greats, but the Greats is still easier to get playful on than the DOA, in my experience, for sure. Since you’ve ridden the Assassin and loved it, that’s a fairly safe bet to go with. The Standard is a really versatile board and a great one board quiver and would also be really suitable for everything you’re describing, so I don’t think you could go wrong with that either. Neither the Greats, it’s still something you can get playful on, but also more aggressive carves, when you want to. The best carver of the 3, IMO. The Standard is better in powder than the Greats, so you get a little more versatility that way.
Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 154, but with boards like the Greats and Standard, they’re likely to be wide for your feet, so I’d size down on them – at least to 151, depending on boot size. If you could let me know your boot size, that would be great. I’d be leaning 153 for the Assassin. But given you’ve been riding 25 years, you probably have your preferences and sizes you’ve been used to, so it’s a good idea to take those into account too. What size are you riding right now? And what size did you test the Assassin and DOA in?
No worries at all and thanks so much for the thoughtful response.
My boot size is 8.5 (separately, I’d love your advice on boots as well, I have a pair of burtons with speed lace system which I very much dislike). My bindings are Burton Genesis (also open to changing but curious what you think)
The assassin I demoed was 153 and perfect size. I read your reviews on Yes snowboards being wider so let me know if 151 is a better bet there.
Note that I only demoed Super DOA (not the regular one) and that was 154. I thought the size was fine but I just didn’t find it fun until you speed up 🙂
How would you compare the assassin and Yes Standard?
Thanks so much!
forgot to mention – I currently ride a Burton Custom (camber) size 154. I like the board except for the edge hold in icy/hard snow. It’s quite terrible at that, probably also because my board is pretty old and beat up at this point
Hi Berkan
Thanks for the extra info.
Firstly in terms of comparing the Assassin and Standard, the Standard is, in my experience, better than the Assassin in icy conditions. The Assassin to me is similar to the Custom Camber in icy conditions. So if you were looking for a step up there, then the Standard would be the best bet, IMO. The Greats is even better than the Standard in icy conditions, IMO – and one of the better icy conditions boards, IMO – it’s my personal go to for icy conditions.
Size-wise, yes I would definitely size shorter if you were to go Standard or Greats, with 8.5s. For the Greats I would size down to the 149. It’s not only wider but has quite a bit of effective edge vs overall length, so I would size down even more for that vs the Standard. For the Standard I would go 151. It’s not quite as wide as the Greats and has a lot less effective edge. But I’d still go down to the 151, rather than the 153.
In terms of boots, it would partly depend on the board you went with, but all the boards you’re looking at have similar flex, but the Assassin is a little softer flexing than the other 2, in my experience. For the Assassin, and taking into account your weight, I would go with something 5/10 to 6/10 flex. For the Standard or Greats, I’d be looking at something 6/10 to 7/10 flex. At your weight, I’d be leaning 6/10 for those, but 7/10 would be doable, if you wanted a bit more stiffness in your boots. Some great options in those flex ranges in this list and this list. Let me know if you have any questions about those boots.
For bindings, the Genesis, IMO, are really good bindings and are a good match to those boards, so I don’t see any need to change your bindings.
Hey Nate,
I’m not even really sure where to start, but first thank you for all the help and knowledge you’re pouring into people. It is greatly appreciated and anything you can offer to help is more than enough. That said, I could use some advice. I bought my first snowboard, boots and bindings on a whim (and with no research) in 2017 and I still use them today.
Firstly, I am 5’6″, 180lbs and size 10 shoe. I have a DC Ply 154cm (which had a much larger learning curve than I had any idea of when I bought it), Burton Moto boots in size 10.5 and Union Flite Pro bindings.
I am currently an Intermediate-5 based on your skills scale. I’m not really savvy with the technical terms but, I love to ride groomers, find every side hit I can find and carve around corners. I’m not really into bombing hills, though on the rare occasion I get to the mountain with a bunch of friends that may happen here and there. I’m really interested in some decent carving, jibbing, buttering and small jumps on groomers, but from what I feel, my current board doesn’t give me the confidence to attempt much. It feels super stiff and pretty catchy. I’ve caught more than my fair share of edges learning on the Ply.
I feel like it’s time to upgrade my gear to match my skills and to help me progress to what I enjoy the most. I live on the East Coast US, typically stay on this coast and Canada’s eastern provinces and don’t really plan on getting into powder anytime soon.
I’ve narrowed down my preference to All Mountain Freestyle, regular width and 154-156cm length but that’s as far as I get before I’m looking at every board from every brand and get overwhelmed. I like the YES GREATS mostly just because I think asymmetrical boards looks so cool and it was at the #1 spot on your list, but I don’t know if that will really even work for me. Which reminds me, that I do ride duck (-12, 12). Any suggestions for how I could narrow down my selection would be greatly appreciated. Also, any suggestions for bindings and boots would be helpful too. I’m considering Union Force bindings and K2 Maysis, thirtytwo Lashed, Nidecker Rift or DC Judge boots.
Hi Mike
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, I found the Ply could feel a bit catchy, when not really concentrating on good technique. Given you want something that’s good on a carve, but also good for buttering, side-hits, jibbing etc, and the fact that you’re on the East Coast, I think the Greats would work really well. It ticks all the boxes, IMO. Only thing might be that you find it a little stiff and maybe a little more of a challenge for level 5, but I think it would be OK. The GNU RC C3, Niche Crux, Never Summer Easy Rider/PS or Lib Tech TRS would also be really good options.
Or if you wanted to go for something softer, then you could look at something like the Rome Agent, Slash Happy Place, GNU Headspace or Arbor Relapse.
Size-wise, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 157, but for your style of riding and this type of board, you would want to size down a bit from that, so I think the 154-156 is a good range to look at.
For the Greats though, I would look at the 151, as it’s wider than the waist width makes it look.
Hope this helps
Hello Nate,
5’10, 165-169 lbs, 9.5 32 Lashed boots, high level intermediate/ advanced rider. I prefer carving and turning ability/ maneuverability over speed and bombing. Learning to enjoy trees and moguls. Your advice is always awesome. You helped me pick my current board: Jones Mountain Twin 154. I’ve been trying to get more into freestyle riding: ground tricks, ollies, modest to moderate jumps, spins, butters, etc. (even dabbling into learning rails). Wanted to know if you think it would be worth investing in a freestyle board in addition to my Mountain Twin, or would it be kinda redundant since I already own a “versatile” board. If you think a freestyle board would be worth the investment, what board and size do you think would suit my style. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks- Matt
Hey Matt
Thanks for your message. Please see my response on your comment on the YES Greats review.
Hi Nate,
I am 190, 84 kg, boot size us 10/10.5
I am looking for a good carver that can handle speed, but that can also let me have fun on side hits and small jumps throwing (180/360). I also enjoy a butter now and then (but less important).
I love the idea of an asymmetrical twin like the Yes Greats, especially as I often skid out of my heel side carve on my current board, which is an older never summer west 157W.
However, I am afraid the Greats 159 is on the smaller side for me, making it less stable at speed and less suitable for carving.
Do you think the Greats 159 is big enough for me, or should I look for a different board?
Kind regards,
Finn
Hi Finn
Thanks for your message. Long story short (TLDR;) the 159 is big enough for you!
It feels bigger than the 159 label suggests. Not only does it have the waist width of a wide board, but it’s even wider at the inserts than you’d expect. With all this width and the effective edge it has, it’s the kind of board that you want to size down a bit for.
I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 162, but for the Greats, sizing down to the 159 would be your best bet, particularly with 10/10.5 boots.
It will, IMO, feel noticeably bigger and more carvy than your 157W West.
I ride the 156 Greats (183cm, 81kg, US9.5 boot) and I can rip big carves on that thing. 156 should be small for me, but it feels at least as big as most 159s.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
I am 183cm/6′ and ~72kg (160lbs). I wear DC Control boots 27.5cm (US9.5). I am probably early intermediate level, can carve okay, go through trees and off piste powder, can ride switch but only on comfortably on greens/groomers (have snowboarded probably 4 seasons at 12-15 days each season).
Right now I own a Yes Typo 158cm (15/-15 duck stance). But I find it to be a bit difficult to do butter tricks, nose presses, and 180s (is it the length or could it be due to lack of my own skill?)
My end goal is to just be able to smoothly and cleanly carve down the mountain and do butter/ground tricks and ride switch. Similar to 6:15-6:30 of this youtube clip. Not looking to do any big jumps/park, ride at very high speeds, or super advanced tricks (started learning snowboarding too late at 34).
I’ve read through your recommendations and reviews, and seems like I should be aiming for Jones Tweaker or Yes Greats? Would it be 151 or 154? 151 on Jones look to be too narrow (cause toe drag?)
Or is my skill level too low that you recommend I start with something like Bataleon Disaster 153W(?) (which is not great for carves but forgiving on butter/switch riding), build up my confidence and skill then upgrade?
A bit torn between the various choices, or perhaps I’m looking at this wrong, any input or guidance would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks.
Frank
Hey Frank
Thanks for your message.
Both options are definitely valid. Going with something like the Greats to get that carving and buttering all in one and learning on that. Or going with something super easy to butter, to get that confidence in buttering going, before introducing the deeper carves into it and doing it at more speed.
I see the Tweaker as an almost in between option. Not quite the carver that the Greats is but easier to butter and all-round a little more playful than the Greats. Could ultimately end up being something you could be rocking this stuff with, without having to go to a more carvy board. SO rather than seeing the Tweaker as being an option similar to the Greats, I would see it as being more of an in between option. Probably still a little closer to the Greats than the Disaster, but more in the middle, if that makes sense.
I personally think going Disaster and then upgrading is likely to be the fastest path, but also of course the most costly one. It could be though, that if you did go that direction, that you ended up being able to use your Typo. And also if you did eventually upgrade you can reduce your costs by selling both the Disaster and Typo, when upgrading. Or you may want to keep the Disaster for those just fun buttering days or that kind of thing.
So there’s definitely options and I think they’d all work. I think going straight to the Greats would be the slowest way to do it, but would also be the most direct way.
In terms of your Typo, I wouldn’t say 158 is too long for you in general. I would put your “typical all-mountain length” right on 158. However, as a lower intermediate and for doing butter tricks and 180s I would say it’s on the bigger side.
Size-wise, if you were to go Greats, the 154 and 151 would both be suitable, but the 151 would make it easier to develop what you’re trying to do.
The Tweaker is wider at the inserts than you’d think based on the waist width, so I think you’d actually be fine width-wise (will include likely width at inserts for all options below for perspective) but I’d probably still go 154 for this one.
If you wanted to go smaller with the Disaster to make it super easy to learn to spin and butter (though could be almost too easy to butter and could be hard to lock in), you should get away with the 151 width-wise. Or you could go 154. I don’t think you need to go wide with it.
For reference re expected widths, in comparison to your 158 Typo, all assuming a roughly 22″ (560mm) stance width.
– Typo 158: 261mm at inserts
– Greats 154: 272/273mm at inserts (this one is particularly wide at inserts, which is why I’d size down more) – I rode this with a 580mm stance width and was 274mm at inserts.
– Greats 151: 269/270mm
– Tweaker 154: 262/263mm
– Tweaker 151: 259/260mm – if you’re worried about going any narrower than the 158 Typo, then this is a little narrower, but with 9.5s and +15/-15 angles, you should be fine, IMO.
– Disaster 154: 259/260mm
– Disaster 151: 257/258mm – this is the most borderline width-wise, but you should still get away with it. That said, it’s the most risky for drag – and in any case, I think this would be too small and you’d find you could overflex it too easily, so if you were going to go Disaster, I think I’d go 154 anyway.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
I am 5″10 and ~75kg (165lbs) and would consider myself an advanced snowboarder (22yrs experience 30 yrs old).
I just ride resorts (all mountain) and have recently reached a bit of a plateau and starting to get bored of riding, so hoping a new board would solve the problem to take my riding to the next level! I actually usually ride pretty standard middle of the range boards so think I am limiting myself quite a lot.
I would say I am all mountain freestyle but looking to maybe start progressing in the park a bit more (been getting pretty into wakeboarding so looking to try transfer some of those skills and try a couple of rails and flips on a snowboard!). I love a powder day just as much as the next person but realistically probably majority of my riding is on the piste.
Pretty lost at where to begin as mainly have been looking at mainstream brands (burton process, t.rice pro) but I notice these dont come into your top 10 picks so maybe I am going down the wrong path.
I have also been just looking at something that is medium for everything so that I can do park but also still carve on the piste and do the odd powder day but I think I am just shooting myself in the foot as missing out on a bit of performance.
Nevertheless would probably be looking at something camber, true twin (I ride +15/-15), and maybe around 156? (I notice you are slightly taller/heavier than me and sometime ride 155 which I thought would be too small to be able to ride at speed on a piste without being too skittery?) I would want to go as small (and soft) as possible for park riding while still being able to ride powder and piste.
Is any of this possible or am I wanting the impossible?
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
From a guy who just wants an enjoyable ride again (Cam)
P.S. Of course the same goes for bindings haha and was just planning on getting Burton Cartels or something? (currently have burton moto boots EU43 size)
Hey Cam
Thanks for your message.
Going with something true twin and camber – even if not full camber, maybe with a bit of rocker before the contact points, there will be a limit as to how good it will be in powder. I find that if it’s pretty shallow powder, most boards can handle it OK, even if with a bit of a back leg workout, so I think it depends on how deep you typically get it when you get powder.
If you do get deep powder and you want something that’s as good in powder as it can be but still twin and camber, then you could look at something like:
– Jones Tweaker 156 – though I think you may find this too playful and not good enough at speed for your liking based on what you’re describing.
– Bataleon Whatever – same comment as for Tweaker. Also, this doesn’t feel like traditional camber, because of the 3BT, so it would be something different. Also not strictly a true twin, but close
– GNU Rider’s Choice – this could work, but it’s got rocker between the feet, which you may not like or want. While there’s still a good amount of camber and more camber than rocker, you still definitely feel that rocker in there. Also this is a 6/10 flex, by my feel, so by no means super stiff or anything, but not sure how soft you were wanting to keep it.
– Salomon Assassin – also not strictly true twin. And not full camber it’s flat between the feet, then camber underfoot, then rocker towards the tip/tail. Camber is pretty subtle in this, but it does feel more cambery than anything else.
Or if you were willing to go Directional Twin, but predominantly twin, still center stance, you could look at:
– YES Standard – not full camber, some rocker tip/tail. 6/10 flex
– Bataleon Goliath – full camber, but 3BT makes it feel not like full camber
– Bataleon Goliath Plus – like Goliath but a little stiffer
If you don’t really see any deep powder and are willing to work a bit harder when in powder, then I would check out:
– YES Greats
– GNU RC C3
– Niche Crux
– Lib Tech TRS
While the Crux is the only one there that’s technically all camber, the RC C3 and TRS are both predominantly camber (very subtle rocker between the feet) and the Greats is too (some rocker just before the contact points at tip/tail).
Another option not on this list, if you’re interested in trying something different is the Bataleon Evil Twin Plus – again like the other Bataleon options, it doesn’t feel like traditional camber, but this one is true twin.
Or if you wanted more traditional camber, then the YES Jackpot could work well too. Others have found this stiffer than I do, but I felt it at around a 5/10 flex. This (as well as the Standard and Greats, that I mentioned above, is wider, so it’s something you could size down a bit for, depending on your boot size.
Or if you were happy to go a little bit stiffer, something like the Burton Free Thinker could work – and not that much stiffer.
In terms of sizing, I don’t typically ride 155 for an all-mountain-freestyle board, though I do on occasion. Not the ideal size for me in terms of speed, but I do tend to err a little shorter generally, partly because I really like to ride trees and find side-hits etc, so I tend to value maneuverability over stability. That said, I will typically ride all-mountain-freestyle boards in the 156-158 range. Most of the boards I ride at 155, or even 154 sometimes are generally freestyle/park boards that are a bit more specialized, unless it’s a volume shifted board, or a board that’s really wide for me, then I might ride an all-mountain-freestyle a little shorter. For all-mountain boards I tend to go for between 157 and 159 and freeride boards more 158-160.
For you, I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 157/158, so I think something around that 156 mark for an all-mountain-freestyle board would be a good bet. But given that you’ve been riding for 22 years, you likely have some pretty strong preferences by now, so use that as well for sizing. If you want any opinions on sizing trickier boards to size, like the Greats & Jackpot, let me know.
In terms of bindings, the Cartel Re:Flex would certainly match any of these boards, IMO. For freestyle stuff, I would prefer the Malavita, but the Cartels would definitely work. Plenty of other options too, of course, but they’d definitely work.
I would however, if you can, change your boots. For how you want to ride and your level of riding and for your specs, the Moto are too soft for you, IMO. I would move into a boot that’s around 5/10 to 6/10 flex, to give you more support – and to better match your style and to better match the kinds of boards you’re looking at.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey Nate, thanks so much for all of this info, it’s super helpful! I am currently considering the Yes Greats and wondered if you could chime in about size for me. I’ve considered many boards, but the way the Greats handles carves, holds an edge and helps build confidence in switch riding, it feels like the true winner to take my skills to the next level.
I consider myself an intermediate rider, comfortable with turns but needing to develop more confidence in speed and my switch riding. I love more chill runs, carving and cruising. My goals with this board are to build confidence with speed and edge control, switch riding and getting into side hits and butters. I’m 5’7″ 160lbs and wear size 10.5 boot. Currently considering the 151, wondering if this suits my needs as I am especially concerned with booting out.
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond!
Hi Mari
Thanks for your message.
I would be debating between the 154 and 151. I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 156, but with this board being wider (and wider at inserts than you’d think for its waist too) and with a higher portion of effective edge vs overall length, it’s a good idea to size down, so I would go to the 154 at the longest, but the 151 could definitely work too. The 151 is likely to be better for you for the likes of sidehits and butters and easier to ride switch and do spins etc – and is going to be easier to maneuver, particularly when riding slower. The 154 will give you more for carving and in terms of stability at speed.
Width-wise, with the 154, you’d be looking at around 273mm at inserts, assuming a 22″ (560mm) stance width. Which is plenty of width for your boot size and a little wider than ideal (but sizing down helps with that – but whether going down to that is enough of a size down is the question).
On the 151, you’re looking at more like 270mm at inserts, again assuming a roughly 22″ stance width. If you ride with a narrower stance width, then that will be a little bit narrower, but I’d still be confident that it would be wide enough for 10.5s in most cases. If you’re boots are bulky and you’re riding with a flatter back binding angle (e.g. 0-6 degrees) and you’re looking to carve deep and have quite a narrow stance width, then it may be pushing it, but otherwise should be fine, IMO. And with an asym board like the Greats, it’s recommend to ride with a mirror duck stance (e.g. +15/-15, +12/-12), and that will be your best bet for improving switch too.
So I think the 151 will be wide enough in most cases. In that case there’s less need to size down, because it’s closer to an ideal width, however, I still think it’s a size that could work well for you and would still have enough length to be stable at decent speeds and lay a good carve.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hey Nate! First of all, I want to pile on – this site is awesome, thanks for all you put into this and the thoughtful engagement. Absolutely love your top 10’s & brand overviews!
I’d like your perspective on sizing, as I’m right on the edge and I’m likely overthinking it. I plan to grab 1 of the 2 boards:
– Yes Greats 156 or 159 (leaning)
– Jones Tweaker: 160W (leaning) or 162 b/c softer flex profile
Intended use is for FUN all-mountain playful riding (spins, presses, side hits, more switch) when with my girl / slower friends (30% of my days, 25-30 per season), and slashing through trees when less than 4” of new snow in Steamboat <- performance in trees is the tie breaker and what has me overthinking this. I’ve found 259mm waist width tends to be wide enough while carving, so I’m pretty confident that even the YES 156 “would work”. I’d appreciate any insight/advice.
I’m 6’3”, 215lbs, size 11 (Vans), Switch angles: +/-9. Current quiver is all bigger boards: Freeride: Flagship (165W), BC: Solution (167), All Mountain: NS West (168X)
Thanks! – Hunter
Hey Hunter
Thanks for your message.
The Tweaker is a little softer/more playful, in my experience, but the Greats can get quite playful too, particularly if you’re going to undersize it. If you want to go the most playful, then I’d be leaning Tweaker, but you’d still certainly find the Greats quite playful, especially in either of those sizes, given your current quiver.
Size-wise, first tackling the Greats. I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 164/165. With the Greats, which is something you want to size down for, IMO, both because of width and effective edge, so if it was your one-board in your quiver, then I would size down from that 164/165 length anyway. Maybe not quite to a 159. If they had a 161, that might be a good one-board-quiver size for you for that. Note that the Greats is wider than the waist width makes it look. Typical difference between waist and width at inserts is around 10mm (assuming a roughly 22″ stance width). The difference between waist and inserts on the Greats is more like 16mm, so it’s pretty wide at the inserts, even for 11s. Given that you’re looking to go playful and will be riding slow, doing spins, presses etc, I would be leaning 156. Now, going 156 would give you a different experience to me going 156 (6’0″, 180lbs, size 10 boots) but given you want it more playful, I think in this case it would work the best. I also rode the 154 last time I rode it (I own a 156) and it definitely wasn’t a noodle or anything like that at that size. I think I could even ride the 151 and be happy on it. The 156 for you will probably still feel a bit smaller than what I felt on the 154, but I think that’s what you’re going for. At a guess I would say it would be the equivalent of me riding roughly a 152 Greats.
For the Tweaker, you’re also looking at something with more effective edge per overall length than typical – and if you’re going wide sizes, then you’d be looking at similar widths at inserts to the Greats. So, you could even go 157W on the Tweaker (121cm effective edge, roughly 276mm at inserts, which will be very similar to the 156 Greats at inserts – a little narrower overall, with the Greats 156 being a little wider at tip/tail). This board is softer flexing/more playful though, so you would be going more playful with this at 157W, than you would with Greats 156. So the 160W is certainly an option and probably the closer equivalent to the 156 Greats in terms of playfulness. The 162 an option too, as I think it would certainly be wide enough and would still be more playful than anything else in your quiver at that size. But I would also consider the 159, which I think might be the perfect middle ground for that board for you. It’s still going to be around 270mm at inserts (assuming a 22″ stance width) which is typically fine for 11s with the binding angles you’re going to use on it, assuming you want be laying down any eurocarves on it or anything. To also compare what I rode, at a guess I would say the equivalent size for you for the 156 Tweaker that I rode would be around 160/161 (regular width, not wide). So, all of those sizes come into play, but I like the sound of the 159 or 162 for you.
I don’t pay too much heed to weight recommendations, but good to note, in case you hadn’t already seen, the recommendations on the 157W Tweaker is only 130-180lbs (159 is 140-190lbs, 162 is 16-210lbs) , whereas on the Greats 156 it’s 160-220lbs. So if you’re concerned about breaking it, then the Greats 156 might be the safer option.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thanks Nate…talk about dropping some knowledge! I’m completely blown away by (1) the the time such a thoughtful response, and (2) your insights.
I’ll be grabbing a Yes Greats 156 (over the Tweaker 159) when I knock off from work today. Stoked, hope you have an awesome season! -Hunter
You’re very welcome Hunter. I like to try to make sure people get the choice right first time. It’s not going to work out every single time, but as much as I can do to help it happen. It saves a lot of time and effort.
Hope you have a great season too and if you think of it at the time, let me know what you think of the Greats, once you’ve had a chance to get it out on snow.
Hey Nate, thanks for the recco…the Greats rocks! I now have 20 days on it (almost 2/3 of my time), and this board has performed from Colorado to Montana to Italy 🤙. The board stays in when it’s deep or I plan to ride in unknown/variable coverage.
Your advice to size down was key. It still rips when I want and it is super fun to lay down an edge. I’ve found myself throwing a lot more spins and presses into my riding just because. Loading up/ stomping out natural hits is confidence inspiring, haven’t noticed any squirreliness while progressing from 180s to 360s.
Despite the slow start, I’ve got 8 12+” days in this year (approaching last years deep day count), but I’ll also be giving the NS West a base weld this week in my free time – PSA, if out in Big Sky wait for 50” of snowpack before going off piste in Shedhorn, lots of hidden sharks!
Wishing you and the community freshies and good times! Thanks again.
Hey Hunter
Thanks for the update and great to hear you’re loving the Greats! It’s often my go to as well. Thanks for the insights and great to hear you’ve been getting those deep days (mine have been few and far between this winter unfortunately).
Hey Nate, love your reviews, I feel like I can trust your opinion a lot. I’m switching my third board ever (using it over 10 years), it was a Burton Sherlock 160 from 2012, it’s just old and heavy I feel.
I’m a bit torn, I’m an all-mountain freestyle rider and I love the idea of the mix between playful and all-mountain of the Bataleon Whatever and the Jones Tweaker, I am curious about another Bataleon board, the fun.kink, which is supposed to be similar to the Whatever. I don’t know, I’m just torn on what to pick for my new all-quiver board, especially now that I’m getting more into just having fun, doing little jumps, trees, and buttering. Love the design for the Whatever and I like the Tweaker too.
I’m 5’11, weighing 200, boot size 9.5. (I think I’d go for 157 or 159, or I guess 159W for the Whatever). What would you recommend for an intermediate/advanced rider like me? Maybe you’d recommend the Yes Greats or C3 more? Help! haha
Hi Johnny
Given it sounds like you want to go more playful, I think something like the Whatever or Tweaker would work well.
We haven’t tested the Fun.Kink, so can’t say for sure, but in terms of specs, it looks pretty similar, but looks to be a little softer again, so likely a little more playful again, but likely not as good as speed or for carving. Based on the core, I would say that the Whatever would be lighter than the Fun.kink and the Whatever likely has a little more pop too, with it’s carbon stringers. But couldn’t say for sure, having not ridden it.
Size-wise, I would put your typical all-mountain length at around 161. But given your style of riding I would size down from that. Going to 157 would make it more playful again, given you’re used to a 160. But I wouldn’t go wide with your boot size, so if you went Whatever, I’d go 157. For the Tweaker I think the 159 would be your best bet.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
You helped me choosing my first board last year, the K2 Standard @152 took me from beginner 3 to intermediate 6 last season. Big thanks! It truly was a joy to ride. Now it might be time for an upgrade, can you help me again?
I ride in a small resort, mostly playfully, jumps, spins, occasional butters, side hits and I like riding switch too. Usually before I’ll call it quits, I’ll like to do few fast runs and see how fast I can go. The conditions are often icy and we don’t get powder that much.
Seems like Yes the greats or Gnu rc c3 would be the best bet for these conditions and style? Not sure about the greats though, as for sizing if its even doable? Their website shows foot width 26,1cm for the 149 if i understood correctly. As for rcc3 154,5 would be ideal? There is a last years model 157,5 on sale, would that be too big? I’d rather get the right sizing than save on the costs.
I’m 5’8, 200lbs and foot size 25cm. I used size 8,5 boots as they felt tight in the beginning, but they loosened during the season so I’m sizing down for next season too. I’m riding with 19,5in stance width and +18/-12 binding angles.
Thank you!
Hi Seppo
Good to hear from you again and awesome to hearing your progressing well!
I would put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 159, however, with your boot size that length is always going to be too wide and I would size down from there. And given your style of riding and the fact your in a small resort I would size down again. While I don’t think the 157.5 RC C3 would be wrong for you or anything, I think sizing down further from that 159 would make more sense, given everything, so I think the 154.5 would be the most optimal size.
With the Greats, being wider, I think you’d want to size down further. The 154 would feel quite a bit bigger than the 154.5 RC C3. I would go down to 151. I think the 149 is a little too small. Because it gets narrower at that size, your looking at a similar insert width to the 154.5 RC C3, but being quite a bit shorter. So if you went Greats I think the 151 would be the goer. But I would be leaning the 154.5 RC C3 as the better size, to keep it a bit longer, but narrower.
Hope this helps
Yes, that helped for narrowing options to the longer&narrow boards. Had the time overthink while waiting for black friday sales. First time i overlooked the never summer easy rider. Being narrower than rcc3, would probably make even better option @154 size? And reading the reviews, seems like easy rider would make more approachable option for jibbing than rcc3. Making it a bit more versatile, or is there really a big difference between the two?
Thank you for your time, these comment sections also give a lot of information too. Is there a way for reading more than the last 3 comments from the main page?
Hi Seppo
Yeah, I think the Easy Rider would be a good option for you. But overall it may not feel noticeably narrower. The 154 is just 1mm narrower at the waist and 2mm narrower at the inserts vs the 154.5 RC C3. And is actually 6mm wider at the tip/tail. The waist and insert width does have more influence, IMO, on how narrow a board feels, but the wider tip/tail width on the Easy Rider will cancel out some of the narrower feeling of the waist/inserts. It may still feel a touch narrower, but it’s not going to make a huge difference, IMO. So I wouldn’t necessarily change to it because of sizing, but it’s still something that I think would work well for you.
Great question re whether there’s a way to read more than 3 comments from the main page (you mean in the footer right, where it says “recent comments”? I will look into that and see if there’s a way. I may have to ask someone with more technical ability than myself! Or do some research.
Thank you for all the detailed info and help. Finally made up my mind and pulled the trigger on the rcc3.
Yes, that’s the one i’m thinking of. Something like “show next/previous 3 comments and first/last” would probably do the thing if it’s something not too complicated to do.
You’re very welcome Seppo.
I will look into it, I’m sure I can figure it out. Thanks for the idea.
Hope the RC C3 treats you well and hope you have a great season! If you think of it at the time, let me know how you get on, once you’ve had a chance to get it out on snow.
Nate! My friend – feels like we now have a relationship after 5 years: Comment 2042272
Unfortunately, someone stole my snowtrooper first day of the season 🙁 but I bought the Harpoon 152 and this has been my best season so far! Powder, trees, freeriding, a bit of carving and speed.
Nonetheless, I feel like there’s something lacking with the Harpoon in certain situations. It’s a great board but I don’t know exactly what’s missing – not the best on hardpack/icy groomers, easy to ride and cruise but not the easiest/super playful.
I think I want something for those dry days to start working on small jumps, switch riding, buttering. Not park exactly but riding the mountain in a more playful way. Given I ride big resorts and they are far from me it has to be something that also works for cruising with my skier friends.
So something different/a complement to my Harpoon but not a park noodle. Does that make sense?
My shortlist is:
-Jones Tweaker
-Yes Greats or Typo
-Capita DOA
-NS Proto Synth or Proto Slinger (I’m used to rocker in the middle so I don’t know if I should continue with the same brand – thoughts vs different profile?)
What do you think? Any thoughts on sizing too?
5’6
165 lbs athletic
US8.5 boots
Thanks again for everything you do!
Hi Luis
Good to hear from you again. Sucks that your Snowtrooper was stolen. But good hear you’ve been getting on well with your Harpoon.
I think the Harpoon is the kind of board that works well in a quiver, but not an all-rounder, so complimenting it with a more freestyle leaning board is a good idea, IMO.
Everything you listed there would be a good compliment to the Harpoon and would work for what you’re describing. A few things to note.
– The Greats/Typo are the best options for icy conditions, IMO, with the Proto Synth/Slinger being the next best, followed by Tweaker and DOA.
– The Slinger is the softest flexing there. It’s still decent for cruising the mountain and still not what I would call a noodle, but note that it is softer than the rest (3.5/10 flex) there and not going to be the best for stability at speed. The DOA and Greats are the stiffest there (6/10 flex), with the Proto Synthesis (5.5/10 flex) being pretty close to them in stiffness. The Tweaker and Typo I felt at around 4.5/10.
– As you’ve mentioned, the Synthesis and Slinger have the hybrid rocker profile that you’re used to. That’s an advantage as it will take you less to get used to and you wouldn’t be switching between profiles that are super different when you go back to your Harpoon. Still a bit different as the Proto’s are a little more camber dominant than the Harpoon. I don’t find it takes long to adjust between a hybrid rocker and hybrid camber, but I do ride a lot of different boards often, so I am very used to it.
Size-wise, I’d put your “typical all-mountain length” at around 155/156 (you have the Harpoon right, IMO, as it’s a volume shifted board designed to be ridden shorter/wider). But given that this is going to be your playful, freestyle leaning board, I’d size down a little from that. For something like the Greats, size down even more because it’s wider. I’d be looking at:
-Jones Tweaker 154 (or potentially even 151, if you wanted to go more playful)
-Yes Greats 151 (or potentially even 149)
-Yes Typo 152
-Capita DOA 152
-NS Proto Synth 152
-Proto Slinger 153
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Thanks, Nate! Very helpful. I assume that because I would be sizing down then I wouldn’t feel the stiffness of a Greats 151 for example, right?
Also – do you think Basic is better than Typo for my situation? I like the idea of Yes because of the icy edge (and I also like the designs) but am unsure between Greats/Basic/Dicey/Jackpot etc.
Is there anything by Lib Tech you’d recommend here?
Hi Luis
The Greats in 151 shouldn’t feel too stiff for you, IMO, but if you really wanted to make sure it was more playful, you could go with the 149 even.
I would say Typo over the Basic. Whilst the Basic certainly isn’t a complete noodle, it’s probably still not stable enough at speed for what you’re probably looking for.
From Lib Tech you could look at the Box Knife (will be renamed and slightly tweaked for the ’24 model, if you were going to be looking ’24 models) or the TRS.
Hey Nate! Following up here I found a Greats 151 at MSRP (it’s sold out almost everywhere) and a Super DOA at a very attractive discount (both 152 and 154).
How would you compare the two boards in my situation? Is the Super DOA too aggressive? 152 or 154?
Your thoughtful advice much appreciated as always!
Hi Luis
The Super DOA is more aggressive than the Greats. And more aggressive than any of the others you were looking at. It’s not as good in icy conditions either. I think because you’re looking for a playful compliment, I’d be more inclined to go Greats, as it’s more playful. If you did go Super DOA, I’d look at the 152, given you’re wanting that playful compliment in your quiver.
Hey Nate! Will you be reviewing the Ride Shadowban soon? I’m super curious to see what you think of it! Love your site, keep up the great work!
Hi Nick
Thanks for your message.
Hope to get on the Shadowban this winter, but having tested it yet. The closest thing we’ve tested to the Shadowban is the Ride Wildlife.
Hi Nate,
Really helpful website, always I am checking what is going new here!
Small question for you, maybe you can help with this one.
I am looking for an all-mountain/freestyle board. Currently, I have a Jones mountain twin 154, which helps me to ride everything here in Whistler, so happy with it, I trust it in all the terrains, but I feel like is not that much playful trying small flat tricks or even on the side hits or park, which is fair, because I took this board/size for feeling comfortable riding everything.
So I am looking for something more playful, but I don’t want to leave on the side the feeling of being comfortable on the mountain, especially here in Whistler where the mountain itself is demanding.
I have a couple of boards on mind, Jones Tweaker or the Salomon Assassins, but instead of going for the biggest size that I can ride, would go for the shortest, normally I can ride two sizes, because as you know “A shorter board will be easier to turn and a longer board will offer better float and stability riding off-piste.”
I am 139 lbs and 5 foot 6, so I think the options should be 151 (instead of 154) on the tweaker and 150 (instead of 153) on the assassins.
Any recommendations on those ones? Which would you take? Any other option in your opinion?
Thanks so much, you are doing a really good job.
Hi Edu
Thanks for your message. Sizing-wise, I agree with going smaller for your more playful board and if you went Tweaker or Assassin the 151 or 150 would be the sizes I’d go for you. But if you could also let me know your boot size, to confirm sizing.
I wouldn’t consider the Assassin that much more playful than the Mountain Twin. That said, 154 MT vs 150 Assassin, it will be more playful. But I’d still be leaning more towards the Tweaker, to give you that bigger contrast in terms of playfulness. That or the Bataleon Whatever, which is also pretty playful. Or you could also look at the following:
>>My Top 10 Men’s Freestyle Snowboards
Though there are some in that list that you might find a little too playful, given it sounds like you still want some stability out of the board. But some in there could definitely work too.
But the Tweaker would work well for what you’re describing, IMO, and would be a good compliment to the MT in your quiver, so if you didn’t want to complicate things, the Tweaker is a good bet, IMO.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
Love you reviews! Very helpful!
Wonder if you can help me with this one. I’m looking for replacement of my current board: Burton Paramount 155. I mostly spent my time in the park on rails and jumps but also ride all mountain. I’d love a board with a good pop. I’m 5 foot 8 and weigh 167 lbs, shoe size 9.5.
Hi Marek
Thanks for your message.
Are you looking for something similar to the Paramount? i.e., is your reason for changing that your Paramount because it’s broken or is it because there’s something you’d like your next board to be better at? Something you find the Paramount lacking? Do you need it to be good in powder or not?
Hi Nate,
The reason is that I broke my Paramount.
I liked it a lot, especially the pop, its twin profile (i ride switch quite a bit), not too stiff.
l used it for all mountain too, it could do better in icy conditions though.
So I’m looking for another board that is fun on the features but also can do good elsewhere on the mountain too. Don’t care for powder, since I’m from East Coast and there’s not much of that here.
I heard good things about Capita DOA. Is it equivalent to Paramount? Do you recommend other options?
Hi Marek
I would say the closest equivalent to the Paramount is the Free Thinker. On paper, the Blossom looks like it should be more similar to the Paramount, but in reality, the Free Thinker is closer (this is talking ’23 model, which is softer than the older models). It’s still not quite as soft as the Paramount was, but it’s close. If you wanted to go softer, then the Good Company is also close to Paramount, but a little softer than the Paramount. Neither would be an improvement in icy conditions though.
The DOA has some similarities, like really good pop. And a similar-ish flex. But not as good on a carve (IMO) as the Paramount. And overall, I think the Free Thinker is still a closer equivalent. DOA wouldn’t give you anything more in icy conditions either, IMO, maybe even a little worse.
I found the Niche Crux really poppy and it’s pretty close (again closer than the DOA, IMO) to the Paramount. But with better icy edge hold, so that’s a definite possibility, IMO.
The TRS C3 or RC C3 could also work, if you were open to trying something with rocker between the feet.
But I’d be leaning Free Thinker or Crux.
Hi Nate,
what would rocker between the feet do? Would it help in the park?
I did think about a board with Magne-Traction for icy conditions. Have actually a chance to buy Cold Brew, but I’m hearing it may not be a good fit for the park. Is it true?
Hi Marek
The Cold Brew is more directional – and it’s also a lot more rocker dominant than TRS C3 and RC C3. It has Lib Tech’s “C2” camber, which has quite a lot of rocker. If you like the feeling of camber, then you’re probably going to find this too loose. Very different to the full camber of the Paramount!
C3 camber, only has subtle rocker between the feet and is predominantly camber.
Rocker between the feet can give a looser feel – there’s a pivot point between the feet. It can help with making quick turns and getting loose and slashy. I quite like the feeling for jibs, but it can make for a less stable landing and approach for jumps and can affect carving too. That said, the extent to which this is the case depends on how much rocker there is and how much camber there is. This effect is very subtle for boards with C3 camber, but more pronounced with the likes of C2, like the Cold Brew has.
Hi Nate, thanks for the effort on the website. I’ve spent more time on it than I’d like to admit searching for a new board.
I wanted to get your opinion on me getting the Gnu Riders Choice in 155W. For reference I am 6ft, 195lbs without gear, wear a size 11 Burton boot and my current board is a Salomon Villain 155.
I have always ridden smaller boards as I grew up in southern California riding park, but I’m not sure if the wide board would be too wide. Thanks in advance.
Hi Taylor
Thanks for your message.
With 11s, it’s a good idea to go wide in most cases, IMO – though it does depend on how you ride. If you’re not really railing carves or anything, then you can get away with regular width on a lot of boards. Also, some boards are a little wider than normal in their regular width – and accommodate 11s well in a lot of cases. It’s one of those sizes that wide boards can be too wide for sometimes, but in those cases, sizing down the length is often the trick.
Width-wise, I’d say the 155W Rider’s Choice is going to be around 273mm at the insets, so it’s not super wide, despite it’s waist width making it look potentially wider. That’s a pretty good length for 11s, IMO. If you’re used to a regular width board, it will feel wide in comparison, but generally speaking isn’t what I would call too wide for 11s. Were you on the 155 or 155W Villain?
Length-wise, I would put your “standard all-mountain length” at around 160/161, but this is the kind of board you can size down for a little anyway. And then if you’ve got quite a freestyle flavor to your riding, that’s another reason to want to ride shorter. And if that’s what you’ve been used to and is your preference, then I don’t think sizing down as much as 5-6cm is too crazy, particularly given you’re going with the wide option.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hi I wanted to know if you could give a recommendation. I currently have a good quiver of boards but am giving my son one of mine that I need to replace.
I currently have Kilroy Pow for deeper days, and a Kilroy park board for playing the park. Neither of these works well on the east coast so I was using my Rossi One LF when the conditions needed it. Now this is going to be my sons main board.
I rode all of them this past weekend to try to tell the difference I am a 5/6 on your scale of skill level and I love riding anything anywhere other than rails.
When I ride the the Kilroy Twin I feel everything underfoot and it feels very playful. However hard charging gets sketchy on icy choppy conditions and it’s hard to stop, etc.
The Kilroy Pow is my go to POW board for CO when we go out there (we live on the east coast so considerable days at SnowShoe). When riding that on the east coast terrain it’s a little more damp than the twin, but still suffers at high speed, and on ice. It’s a great on groomed runs, etc.
The Rossi One just feels insanely damp and I have a hard time telling when I have good edge hold with it. Maybe just my inexperience but when riding the other two when you don’t feel much it normally means you’re about to catch an edge with this board you don’t feel a whole lot at all, and it feels sluggish from side to side. Again maybe my inexperience.
I was looking at the terrain wrecker, yes standard or typo, and the proto. Would any of these be a better pick than the other?
Thanks so much!
Hi Dallas
Thanks for your message.
A few things to note about those boards.
The TW, Standard and Typo a little better than the Proto Synthesis in icy conditions.
The TW and Typo more playful than the other 2. The Standard and Proto Synthesis aren’t super aggressive or anything either and perfectly good for your level but I would say the TW and Typo a little on the playful side of normal and the Standard and Proto right in the middle between playful and aggressive. But both have a little bit more spring/life than the One, IMO – not as damp, but a little more lively.
I’d be leaning Standard as your daily driver, but the other 3 would work for sure.
Hope this helps with your decision
Nate, thanks so much for all the advice!
After reading everything I could find it looks like I should have included the Greats into the list.
Out of these three what would you suggest?
Yes Greats UnInc, Yes Standard (normal or UnInc), Yes Basic UnInc?
I’ve been leading towards the Greats but it’s so hard to tell without being able to ride them.
Thank so much and if you have or could put up a donate button on here I’d happily donate for all the amazing advice you give!
Hi Dallas
If you don’t need it for powder performance (and it sounds like you already have a board for powder days), then I’d be leaning Greats (or Standard Uninc). I really like the Greats for carving (one of the better carving twins out there, IMO) and really good in icy conditions. If you still want reasonable powder performance, then I’d be looking at the Standard. The Basic Uninc would work too, for sure – but I preferred the Standard Uninc over it.
So yeah, I’d go Greats or Standard Uninc. Just be careful with sizing them. Depending on your boot size you might need to ride them shorter than what you’re used to. Happy to give a sizing opinion – would just need your height, weight and boot size. The size of your Kilroy Pow, Kilroy Twin and Rossi One would also be helpful.
You can contribute to the site here or you can also now become a Member/Patron here.
Thank you sir!
Ok the greats it is!
Currently my board sizes are:
Rossi one LF 159
Kilroy POW 158
Kilroy Twin 155
Boot size is 10, and I am wearing burton Swath with the newer model step ons.
I weight 210.
My guess is the 154?
Hi Dallas
If you’re looking to use it as your do everything, daily driver kind of thing, I would be leaning 156. If you were going to be using it predominantly for freestyle, then I’d more likely to look at the 154, but given you have the Kilroy Twin for freestyle, I think 156 is probably your best bet. If you could let me know your height though, that would help to confirm. Whilst weight and boot size are more important for sizing (IMO), I still like to take height into account.
Thanks for all the info Nate!
My height is 5′ 10″
I’ll only ride the Kilroy twin in the park once I get this board not sure if that makes a difference.
Hey Dallas
I would be leaning 156 for your specs. At 210lbs, I think the 154 is getting a little on the small side if it’s not going to be just a freestyle/park board. I ride the 156 (6’0″, 180lbs, size 10 boots) as an all-mountain-freestyle board and love it. I really liked the 154 too, but I think the 156 is the best bet for you.
Extremely happy with my 156 Greats.
It’s night and day difference on the east coast from my other boards and it RIPS.
Thank you!
Hey Dallas
Thanks for the update and awesome to hear you and the Greats are getting on well!
Hi Nate,
Currently bought the 149 Yes Greats with Union Strata (M), with boot size of 9-9.5. I’m currently wondering if I should step the length to 151 just to make sure it’s the right board for me. I’m 5’9 and 135 lbs; I also like moderately lay a good carve and make the resort my playground. Is this the right size for me?
Best,
Keith
Hi Keith
Thanks for your message.
I would put your “standard all-mountain length” at around 152, which would suggest that the 151 is the better size for you. However, the Greats is a board you can size down for because it has quite a bit of effective edge vs overall length. i.e. it feels liker than a typical board of the same length. It’s also a board that’s wider than the waist width would suggest. Based on measuring the 154 and 156 sizes, I would predict that the 149 has a width at inserts of around 260mm, assuming a stance width around 540mm. And yes measure it at 261mm at that stance width (one of the few brands that show width at inserts – more are starting to do it, which is good). For 9 to 9.5s you should be good with that, particularly if you’re riding with +15/-15 binding angles. If you go to the 151, it will be a little on the wide side for your boots, IMO. Nothing super wide, but wide enough that sizing down would again would make sense at that point. Long story short, whilst I don’t think the 151 would be wrong necessarily, I think the 149 is the better size for you.
Hope this helps with your decision
At first thank you so much for the reviews, it helps a lot for someone who can’t demo snowboards. Could you please help me with my decision?
My riding level is around intermediate and I want to go more into freestyle but more like „treating the whole mountain like a park“ than actually park riding. I would priorize flat tricks, butters, sidehits and maybe shirt carves. My height is 172cm and my weight because of working out relatively high with around 80kg. My boot size is US10. My first board was a Nidecker sensor plus and it was really fun but too stiff for first butters.
I had the chance to test a NS proto slinger 154X and it turned soo slow compared to my old nidecker that I want to stay away from rocker dominant boards. My question would be if you think the bataleon evil twin or the gnu headspace might be a good choice or is there a chance that I outgrow these ones for all mountain? I also thought about the custom camber as well rounded board but don’t know if the flex is ok for buttering?
Thank you so much!
Hi Stefan
Thanks for your message.
I have never found the Proto Slinger to be a slow turner and don’t typically find Hybrid Rocker boards (rocker between the feet, with camber to the tip and tail) to be slow turners. Also to note that while the Proto Slinger is Hyrbid rocker I wouldn’t call it rocker dominant. It has more camber than rocker overall but the placement of the rocker does make it feel more rocker than something with that same rocker outside the inserts. I suspect that part of what made it feel slow turning is that you went with the wide version. But if might also be the case that Hybrid Rocker just doesn’t suit your style.
Note that the GNU Headspace is also Hybrid Rocker. The rocker between the feet is very subtle – even more subtle than on the Proto Slinger but it’s still placed between the feet – so if you’re worried about that profile not suiting your riding style, then it might be safer to skip that one. I haven’t ridden the Evil Twin but on paper and based on other Bataleon boards I’ve ridden I think it would definitely work.
I haven’t ridden the Sensor Plus, so I don’t know for sure how it rides or butters, but it looks pretty stiff, so I would guess that the Custom Camber is a little easier to butter but it’s not super easy to butter. Harder to butter than the likes of the Proto Slinger, Evil Twin (I would imagine) and Headspace though.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate, just discovered this page and really like your style of reviewing and help with recommendations. Although I still have some life in my current board, I plan to buy a new one at some point this season. Seems like you might have some insight.
Some background: I’ve been riding 20+ years, I now live in the mountains of Colorado and have averaged 50-100+ days each winter for the past 8 years. I’m not a huge park guy, but I ride the whole mountain with a very freestyle oriented approach (butters, side hits, logs, slashes, laid out carves, etc.). The biggest pain for me in finding the right board is my size 11.5 boot.. which isn’t huge.. but toe dragging a hard and fast carve isn’t fun. With that said, I’m limited to models that offer a wide width. Whether it’s a board mentioned above or not, I’m open to any suggestions!
For a few years I rode a 157W Assassin and absolutely loved it. I have now ridden the Weston Range 158W for several years and it’s served me well, but is starting to feel a little damp with some edge damage to boot. The list of things I liked from both boards is quite long, but the only real disadvantage was their performance in pow.
I appreciate any help you can offer!
Hi Andy
Thanks for your message.
The new Assassin Pros are a little better in powder – nothing amazing still, but have improved a little – at the sacrifice of being a little more directional, but still very much freestyle oriented, IMO. The 158W Assassin could be an option.
The Greats, in 156, which is wider than it looks, would also be a good bet, but you wouldn’t feel any improvement in terms of powder, IMO.
The Rider’s Choice is better than the average all-mountain-freestyle board, IMO. Again, being so freestyle oriented never going to be amazing in powder but better than most in this category. It has a 158W.
The Whatever and Tweaker are also a little better than average in powder, but they’re more playful than the others – and you may find them a little too playful?
So yeah, if you want that little bit more in terms of powder, then I’d be leaning Assassin or Rider’s Choice.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hi Nate, here Pablo from Argentina, i’m an internediate rider, run all the mountain, and starting with olllies, butters and little jumps, my board is a Nytro pyro 1,53 (2014 asimetrical twin, flat camber) i’m 5″9 y, 170 lbs, my boots 7 1/2. In Argentina we have ice tracks or compact snow and somos days of powder not too deep.
The question is , Yes Greats or gnu rc? Wich size? Wich bindings? I like control, some speed but fun with the accident of the terrain.
Thanks for your work and sorry my english, hope you can understand.
Hi Pablo
Thanks for your message.
Both are great options for what you’re describing, IMO. Both really good in icy conditions and for jumps, ollies, butters and decent at speed.
Some things that might help you’re decision:
– The Greats is a little better on a carve (IMO)
– The RC is a little better in powder (IMO)
– The Greats is a little easier to butter
But you can’t make a wrong choice between them, IMO.
Hope this helps with your decision
Wich size of board and bindings do you recomend me,?
Hi Pablo
For the Greats, I would go 154. For the RC I would go 154.5.
For bindings, I would look for something around 6/10 flex or up to 7/10 flex. For 6/10 flex, something like the Union Strata, Burton Cartel or K2 Lien AT would be a good bet. If you wanted to go a little stiffer, then you could look at the Flux XF, Burton Cartel X, Union Falcor, Rome Katana.
Hope this helps
I love my nytro pyro , last season l try a burton custom fly v and i can use it but i miss my board, in your opinión wich could be better for me ? Yes greats, gnu rc or rc3? I cant decide and i too far to mistake with my choice
Hi Pablo
With the Nitro Pyro being a hybrid camber (camber between the feet with flat sections out towards the tip and tail) – my instinct is that you prefer that profile over something like the flying V, which has rocker between the feet. In which case, I think you’ll likely prefer the Greats (camber between the feet with rocker sections out towards the tip and tail). Though the RC C3, which has only very subtle rocker between the feet would likely work well too. With the Custom, you were probably better off with the camber version (full camber) – or the Process Camber (which is hybrid camber).
But overall, I would be leaning YES Greats.
Cheers for the great reviews and good info, after hiring random boards for the last 3 years, to then getting a bit more confident and hiring out a Lib tech Orca over another season and almost buying that (but realized it was too much board for what I do)… I stumbled across your reviews took a chance and brought a 21 Salomon Assassin and its awesome just feels good everywhere coming from an intermediate rider with about 4 seasons of snowboarding behind them. I’m running Union force bindings and Salomon launch boa boots. Only thing is when things get fast or rough I feel the boots may be a bit too flexy…. I have have my eye on some Ride Trident’s – Is this too much of a step up in Stiffness for all mountain riding ?.
Hey Mikey
Thanks for your message.
I think it’s a little too stiff for the overall setup. But that said, if anything is going to be stiffer it’s the boots. I felt the Trident at around an 8/10 flex. And the Launch at more like 5/10. Ideally I’d say go to something more like 6/10 to 7/10, but I get that you don’t want it to be too subtle of an increase in flex. I think ideally something with 7/10, so you get a good increase but not too much. But the Trident would be doable. If you did want to look more at some 6/10 to 7/10 options, you could check this list out.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate, really appreciate the work you do here. It’s been super helpful narrowing down choices for a new board. Would really appreciate your thoughts on what I view as the finalists for my riding style and skill level.
First off, I’ve been riding 15 years but live in Texas so only get to hit the mountain a couple days a year. I’d consider myself myself intermediate with some strong and some weak points. I carve pretty well and have ridin stiff/advanced setups for my skill level. Last rental was a Jones Stratos and I held my own. That said, I’ve mainly been carving groomers with a bit of action in trees along runs. Can work through moguls if I run into them.
I’m looking to learn some freestyle skills and start hitting more jumps and side-hits. Also want to get better riding switch. Basically, want to start having a bit more fun while resort riding. I’m currently thinking of choosing one of these: (6’0″ 175lbs, size 10 boots)
Capita Asymulator – 156cm
GNU Riders Choice – 157.5cm
Seems you loved both based on your reviews. Can you shed any more light on why I’d choose one over the other? Seems the GNU RC is better for icy conditions while the Asym might be quicker turning/more nimble? Is one better than the other on a glide or more forgiving of catching edges on less than stellar switch riding?
Hi Nate
Thanks for your message.
Size-wise, for your specs for those boards for what you’re wanting to do, I think they’re spot on.
Between the 2 boards, some differences:
– The RC is a little looser feeling – it’s not ultra loose or anything, but that rocker between the feet does give you this pivot point that gives a slightly looser feeling.
– The RC is a little more forgiving of catching edges – again, partly to do with that rocker between the feet, but the Asymulator isn’t catchy or anything, in my experience
– Yeah, the RC a little better in icy conditions, in my experience
– In terms of agility, they’re both pretty nimble. Hard to really decide between them – but I found both really quick edge-to-edge.
– In terms of glide I’d say there’s very little in it
For what you’re describing, both would work really well, IMO, so you can’t really go wrong. I think it’s largely going to come down to whether you want a more stable feel – or a feel just on the looser side of stable and how much icy conditions performance you think you’ll need.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thanks man, I do prefer a more stable to locked-in feel and don’t ride too much on ice so think I’ll give the Asymulator a shot! Planning to pair with Union Force bindings (M) I think.
Would you still go with the 156 if I wanted to add a 158ish free ride/powder board later to compliment the weak points of the Asymulator or consider the 154? I’m kinda assuming boards like the Kazu and Jones Flagship are different enough that even if I ended up 156 Asym and 157 Kazu it shouldn’t be too much overlap. Just thinking ahead to a 2 board quiver that would pair well as I’m plan to ramp up my riding time quite a bit next season.
Hi Nate
Yeah, def enough difference between the likes of the Asymulator and the Kazu or Flagship even if you were to go 156 Asym/157 Kazu or 156 Asym/158 Flagship. It would be even more of a difference pairing the 154 Asymulator with those, but there would still be enough difference, IMO, that they would work in a quiver, even with the 156.
I rode the 154 and didn’t find it felt super small for me – and at the time I was 185lbs (otherwise same specs as you). It wouldn’t be the size I’d go with if I was buying it as my daily driver though. But if it was going to be a board in my quiver that I was going to be mostly using in the park or playful all-mountain-freestyle, then I’d happily go with the 154. As a do it all size though, I would go 156.
Sweet, thanks for taking the time to reply. Helps a lot.
You’re very welcome Nate. Happy riding!
Hi Nate,
I love your snowboarding reviews. Nice work.
I am 5’7″, 175 lb, and have been snowboarding for about ten years, primarily in the Lake Tahoe area. Mostly hit groomed trails and occasionally ride into trees. I don’t do park or pipe. I enjoy carving, going fast on groomed runs, and surfing on fresh powder whenever we have it. I consider myself an intermediate to an advanced rider, and I enjoy both blues and blacks.
I am looking to replace my current setup that I have been riding for almost eight years (Burton Joystick + Burton Mission binding). I am looking for an advanced board that I can use to improve my skills further. Any advice on boards and binding setup I should look at. I am open to ideas.
Hi Jevin
Thanks for your message.
If you’re looking to step things up and your primary is carving, speed and powder, then I would look into a freeride board. It would be a big step up from the Joystick, which looks like it was a full rocker board and quite soft flexing (I haven’t ridden it).
Something from the following:
>> My Top 10 Freeride Snowboards
Or if you didn’t want to up the stiffness too much, then you could look also look at:
>>Top 10 Surfy (mellow) Freeride Snowboards
Pay attention to score breakdown’s particularly on that second list – as there are some on that second list that aren’t great for carving/speed and are more powder specialized.
Hope this helps
Thanks so much Nate.
You’re very welcome Jevin. Happy riding!
What length would I need on a Yes Greats? I’m 6’1, 205LBS, size 11 boot. Currently ride a Niche Maelstrom, absolutely amazing for speed and carving but a little stiff for park. Thanks!
Hi Rain
Thanks for your message.
Probably 159 – I think that’s the size best suited to your specs, for sure. However, 156 becomes possible, if you want to use this predominantly as your park board. If it was your only board, I’d say go 159 for sure, but in conjunction with your Maelstrom, if you don’t mind sacrificing some stability at speed for a more playful ride and are going to be using it predominantly for freestyle, then 156 could work too.
Hope this helps with your decision
Any concern with size 11 boots on the 156 for carving? No euro carves planned, but definitely like to get very up on edge.
Hi Daniel
Thanks for your message.
With 11s, I’d be surprised if you had issues with the 156 in terms of width for carving. If you had really bulky boots and were riding with a back binding angle of like 0 degrees or 3 degrees or something (recommended to ride with a duck stance on an asym board like the Greats anyway), then I don’t think you should get any drag issues on the 156.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate, I have a question. I currently ride a GNU ECO Choice (2017/2018) that I believe is the same board as the Rider’s Choice. The base is cracked and unrepairable, so I’m looking for a new board. I really like this board but am very curious about the trend to wider boards. I’m just not thrilled with the trade-offs that typically need to be made – i.e. I prefer having one board that is very competent across all aspects of riding. I love going fast but also love surfy riding in soft snow and slush. I’m not much of a park rider, but do seek out jumps and features across the hill. I’m 6’3″, 175lb, and wear size 11 boots and my board is a 161.5, Would you think sizing down and going with a wider version of the RC – say 155W or 158W – would bring me closer to that trendy “wide-board” feel for carving without losing too much of character of the RC? And having said that, how would the board respond in glades? I like the idea of a shorter board (esp the rear end) but worry too much width would hurt agility. Any thoughts?
Hi Justin
Thanks for your message.
Certainly I find a board that’s too wide for my feet does affect agility. Makes it more physically taxing to transition between edges – and there’s typically a bit of a delayed response. That can often be counteracted, at least to some extent, by going shorter. With 11 boots, you’re in that grey area between wide and regular and really depends on the board – some boards the regular sizes would be too narrow. It sounds like you’ve been fine without boot drag on the 161.5 Eco Choice, so you’ve got a reference point there. The 161.5 Eco Choice is around 265mm at the inserts – so you know you can get away with that narrow if you need to.
The 158W RC has a width of around 275mm at the inserts. The difference between that and 265mm would be noticeable for sure. But sizing down from 161.5 should counteract most of the agility loss. And 275mm isn’t ultra wide for 11s – it’s on the wider side for 11s, but it’s nothing too crazy. The 155W is getting pretty small for your specs, IMO, given you want to still ride fast. If you were going to be using it predominantly for riding playful and not that concerned about speed performance it would certainly be doable, but if you still want that speed factor, I think it’s getting a little too small, ideally. It’s around 272mm at the inserts, which is actually a pretty good width for 11s, so you would be sizing down quite a bit for a board that’s not overly wide for your boot size.
Note, the Eco Choice was the same as the Rider’s Choice at the time. The Rider’s Choice hasn’t changed drastically in that time, but it does now have a C2X profile, compared to the C2 Profile on the Eco Choice/older Rider’s Choice. So there’s a little more camber in there compared to the C2 – but I think you’ll like that change.
Hope this helps
Thanks so much for your feedback. Btw, I’m also looking at the Hyper and Gremlin (esp since I can still get a Gremlin for this season).
Hi Justin
The Hyper, IMO, is in a lot of ways like a more directional Rider’s Choice – so if you wanted that similar feeling but in a more directional option, it’s a good choice. The Gremlin is a little different – it’s more of a short wide board and has C3 camber and is a bit stiffer as well. For surfing in pow and slush, I would be more inclined to go Hyper, but if you think you’d prefer something a little more precise/stiff, but still good in powder, then the Gremlin could work.
Amazing Top10 – big fan of the Greats but thinking about trying a Riders Choice.
Any chance you’ve tested the Gnu Riders Choice C2X 2020 and new 2022 edition?
Hi Mark
Thanks for your message.
I haven’t ridden the 2022 Rider’s Choice. Last I rode it was the 2019 model – but there have been no significant changes to it since then. Like a small tweak to to the core between the 2022 and 2019 models as far as I can tell. Even if it doesn’t change I’ll likely try to get on the 2023 model soon (just because it’s been a few years), but typically I won’t retest a board unless there’s a reason to. But it’s a pretty safe bet that the 2020 model and the 2022 model are basically identical, besides the graphic. I did ride the new RC C3 (C3 camber version of the Rider’s Choice) in the 2021 model. Again, the 2022 model didn’t change from the 2021 model in that version.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate, thanks for all your effort. It blows my mind that some of the comments in here are from 2015. Much appreciated.
Last year my burton progression 152, unfortunately, cracked while transporting so it’s time for something new. In the past, I’ve tested rentals while being there which I’d usually buy after but decided this time to do some research on my own.
I’m boarding for years but only manage to do it once a year so I’d rate my skills as intermediate. Usually, I’m cruising down the hill with my dad and brother (we are by no means speed freaks), take a few shortcuts through fresh pow but would also like to get more into jumps and jibs. My intention is to find something that is easy to pick up again every year and forgiving to ride. I thought about an all-mountain freestyle, asymmetrical true twin, (hybrid) rocker, with 3-5 stiffness. Yeah, very precise already.
So far I’ve gathered a few that caught my eye:
– GNU ASYM T2B C2E19/20 Snowboard 155
– GNU Riders Choice (2022) 154.5
– Ride Twinpig 151
I’m 178cm (5’10), 80kg (176lbs), and use Salomon Dialogue Focus Boa (8.5) boots.
Any suggestion, hint, help is appreciated.
Hi Simon
Thanks for your messages.
Firstly just to note that the Twinpig is what I would consider Hybrid camber (Ride calls it Hybrid rocker because it’s there more rocker dominant hybrid profile – but I like to define hybrid rocker as having rocker between the feet hybrid camber as having camber between the feet – i.e. where the rocker and camber is placed – as it’s more telling of a board is likely to ride – and this is done by more than just me – Ride kinda makes it confusing with how they label it). In any case just so you know that the Twinpig is camber between the feet with rocker towards tip and tail. Also note that I didn’t find it that soft flexing – closer to 5.5-6/10 for me. And not as easy going as it sounds. It’s not hard to ride or anything, but just takes a little bit of effort, even on the 151, I found. That extra width (and it’s quite heavy) make it not as easy going to ride as the other 2 in your list. And I rode the 151. With your boot size compared to mine (I’m in 9.5s) that extra width would be somewhat exaggerated as well.
I think the other 2 fit what you’re describing well. Based on specs, I’d say probably 157-159 in terms of length, but sizing down a little doesn’t hurt with 8.5s – and also given you want something playful and your not riding super fast – and if your riding trees and wanting to learn some freestyle as well, then I think those sizes work for you.
Between the T2B Asym and the Rider’s Choice, I preferred the Rider’s Choice overall. But I’m guessing the difference between the 19/20 T2B and the 2022 Rider’s Choice is quite different!? So, I think ideally the Rider’s Choice, but the T2B Asym would work, if you wanted to go a little easy on your wallet.
Hope this helps with your decision
That helps a lot, thank you!
I’ve also stumbled over the GNU ASYM CARBON CREDIT BTX 156 yesterday evening that also seems to fit the bill, any thoughts?
If you have any other suggestions or believe that I should change the specs, feel free to shoot!
(… also sorry for the double post, didn’t see it needed to be approved first)
Hi Simon
The GWO is more what I’d call a freestyle board – doesn’t count it out, but it’s also quite a bit softer. Again, if you wanted to go really soft, that’s an option. Also note that it’s a looser feeling board – it’s basically all rocker (technically Hybrid Rocker as there is some subtle camber in there, but you barely feel the camber). If really soft and loose sounds like something you’d like, then it’s an option – and would certainly be good for learning jibs – but for more all-mountain stuff, I’d be leaning the other 2.
You are the best, thanks for answering all my questions. It’s soo much information to take in so this really helpful.
When checking some more reviews on youtube I’ve stumbled upon the YES. The Greats (2015) which seem to be an all-time fav for a lot of people. It’s a direction twin which I never used before but wondered what your take is on them if I’m not really riding switch.
As you might notice – I’m not 100% sure what the best would be for me honestly. It’s really hard to judge only based on review as, for example, it seems like the GNU ASYM T2B C2E is a bit unstable for carving but who knows if I will ever really feel that as I’m not going insane fast anyways.
Last board, I promise: How do you feel about the YES. The Greats (2015)? It’s an older one for sure but I was reading a lot of praise about it. The only concerning thing is that I’ve never had a directional twin but wonder if it actually makes a difference for me as I’m not riding switch anyway.
(sorry if I posted twice again – I’m jumping on this in-between work stuff and am usually not sure if I managed to finish my message last time 😅)
Hi Simon
Got both messages. The Greats is actually a true twin, rather than a directional twin – and is an “asym twin” like the T2B Asym and Rider’s Choice. If you’re not really riding switch, then a directional twin would be fine – even if you were riding switch a bit, a directional twin isn’t bad for switch anyway.
The Greats from 2015 is quite different from the more recent models of it but it would still be suitable if you can find it in the right size. It is certainly more stable feeling than something like the T2B.
Hey Nate, thanks a lot list and efforts replying in the comments.
Unfortunately, my Burton Progression 152 cracked last year during transport so it’s time to get something new. I’m riding for years but only once a year so I’d rate myself on an intermediate level. I usually cruise down the hill with my dad and brother, take a few shortcuts through the trees but nothing crazy, and would love to get more into smaller jumps and jibs.
So I thought about an All-Mountain/Freestyle, Hybrid Rocker, asymmetrical Twin, with a soft flex as that sounded most forgiving and easiest to pick up every year.
Any recommendations? Doesn’t need to be the newest model if that helps.
My list so far:
– GNU ASYM T2B C2E19/20 Snowboard 155
– GNU Riders Choice 154.5
– Ride Twinpig 151
I’m 178cm (5’10) with 80kg (176lbs) and use Salomon Dialogue Focus Boa size 41,5 (8.5).
Hi there,
I’m looking for a new board and based on this list, the YES Greats Uninc. looks like a great choice.
The Ride Algorhythm (ormaybe the Ride Zero ?) is another possible choice.
I’m riding since years but I’m a begginer/intermediate regarding freestyle, that’s why I’m looking an all-mountain freestyle board.
I want to shred at high speed with my friends but also “learn” freestyle.
Will the Great be tolerant enough to learn ? (if it’s not the perfect match, I’m ok. I just don’t want something to hard to learn with.)
Or something like the Algorhythm will be a better choice ?
Hi Mathieu
Thanks for your message.
IMO the Greats should work well for you. It’s not going to be too challenging to learn freestyle on, if you already have a solid riding technique. It’s not going to be the easiest board ever to learn freestyle on, but assuming a solid ability with your general riding, it should be all good. Only thing is that I would make sure to get the sizing right (important always, but particularly for this board, which is typically ridden a little shorter). Would be happy to suggest what I think is the best size. Would just need your height, weight and boot size.
Hope this helps
Hi I was wonder if the 149 yes greats or the 151 would be better for me ! I’m 145 pounds wear size 9 boots
Hi Devon
Thanks for your message.
With your specs, I think both would likely work, but I would be leaning towards 149. But if you could also let me know your height (weight and boot size for sure more important, but I still like to take height into account as well) – and also a little bit about how you ride. e.g. more aggressive/faster? slower more casual? Trees? Freestyle/Park? Anything you can tell me about your riding would be helpful and rough ability level too.
Actually I’m wearing size 8.5 boots now I bought new ones , I’m 5 foot 7 145 pounds . I intermediate level, like carving mostly but want to get into small and medium jumps , side hits. I80d and 360s . Snowboard semi aggressive not to crazy . I bought the 151 all the 149s sold out so I’m hoping the 151 isn’t to big it shows up in a few days .
Hi Devon
Thanks for the update.
I think the 151 is on the bigger side for you, but wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s too big. I think around 153 is what I would deem your standard “all-mountain” size for your specs. With this board being wider and with a lot of effective edge compared to overall length, you definitely want to size down. And sizing down to the 149 is probably the better bet. But it’s still not necessarily too big. Will likely feel it a bit more in terms of stability at speed and for hard carves and a bit less for maneuverability at slow speeds and tricks and the likes, compared to what I did though. Something to keep in mind, but not way out of range or anything. Would be interested to hear how you get on once you get a chance to get it out on snow.
have you purcahsed the GREATs? i have similar situation, i would like to know if you have enjoyed the 149 or 151
Hello Nate!
I’m looking to buy YES Greats UnInc. 20/21 but i don’t know what size to buy, 156 or 159
I would say i’m pretty experienced, been riding every christmas holiday (for at least a week) for 5 years now. Although this will be the first board that i buy.
I’m around 6’1 and weigh about 154 lb
I like everything from the rails and jumps in the park to going off-piste and floating on that powdered snow
I’m still growing and I don’t want to grow out of it, but i still want a lot of playfullnes from my snowboard.
Thanks in advance
Hannes
Hi Hannes
Thanks for your message.
At your weight, I’d be debating between 154 and 156 for this particular board. It rides long and it’s quite wide. But if you can let me know your boot size, that would really help no a sizing recommendation for this board.
Hi nate, Thanks for all your reviews and guides, super helpful!
What boards would you recommend for someone who is 6’0 with 10.5 boot size at 140lbs. Intermediate who would like a board to be good at jumps, spins, butters and also be decent at turning with speed and riding side country. Also a hybrid camber profile would be amazing.
For reference I have used the bataleon evil twin and it was a nice flex level, wouldnt want anything too stiffer. Since Im very light weight, its hard to find a board that can offer good stability on turns/carves at speed yet offer playfulness with tricks.
Hi Roy
Thanks for your message.
As I haven’t ridden the Evil Twin, I don’t have an accurate reference as to flex for it, but based on Bataleon’s rating and other reviews, it sounds like it’s around a 5/10 flex. I’ll keep that assumption in mind.
Do you know what size Evil Twin you rode? The reason I ask is that when a board is big for your weight, it typically feels stiffer than it would be if it was more appropriate for your weight. e.g. if you were on a 157 Evil Twin, then it would feel stiffer than someone my weight (175lbs) testing the 157. I find it’s pretty common for guys who are tall but light to end up on boards that are too big for them, because a lot of people still recommend size based purely on height. Not saying that’s necessarily the case for you, but that info would help in choosing the best board option – and the best size.
Based on your specs and how you describe your riding, I wouldn’t go longer than a 154. Unless you’re used to riding something way longer, then we might have to adjust that. But I’d say 151-153 would be the best size range to look at. With 10.5 boots, it will reduce your number of options, so that we can find something that’s wide enough, but there are definitely options out there – and I have a couple in mind already. If you could let me know the brand, model (and year if you can remember) of your boots, that would be great, and typical binding angles. Once I have that info and the size you rode the Evil Twin at (and any other recent boards you’ve ridden and their sizes), I can come up with a more tailored recommendation.
Hope this helps
Appreciate the quick response man. Unfortunately I don’t know the length of any board I’ve ridden I’ve only used rentals and was a little younger and naive to ask. I think your recommendation is s good range though from looki at your length guide table. Also I’m not sure about boots, I’ve only used the standard rental boots.
For binding angles it’s usually +15 and -15.
Hi nate, I don’t know the length of the evil twin as it was a rental and i didn’t ask any questions unfortunately. Also only ridden other rental boards and used rental boots so not sure on brand or model. When i get boots though i will be probably buying from adidas as they have a wider design e.g. tactical adv.
For binding angles i usually use mostly +15,-15 or sometimes+18,-12.
After using your board length and width guides I got 151-153 for length and 252-257 for width if that helps 🙂
Hi Roy
Thanks for the extra info.
If you do go with Adidas, that would help you get on something narrower as they’re really low profile – and I find that I can also go 1/2 size down in Adidas boots, so you could even end up in a 10, which would also help.
Some options that I think would work well:
– Capita Asymulator 152 (but only if you get in 10s or really low profile 10.5s)
– Salomon Assassin 153 (same applies as above)
– YES Dicey (or Jackpot) 152 – no issues with width on this one (not on this list, but on the freestyle list and bordering on all-mountain freestyle – the Dicey more like 4/10 flex and the Jackpot 5/10 flex)
– YES Greats 151 – again no width issues. I suspect this might be just on the stiff side for what you want – but still nice and buttery
Thanks Nate! Sorry for the double response^ the website glitched and removed my first reply. I’ll definitely be looking into those boards for sure, thank you again.
You’re very welcome Roy. Hope you have a great season!
Any differences between the 2022 yes greats and the 2021?
Hi ivwshane
As far as I can tell the 2022 model is identical to the 2021 model (bar the graphic). And has been the same since the 2019 model. I did get on the 2022 model. Typically I won’t re-ride a board unless it’s changed, but I hadn’t ridden it in a while, so wanted a refresher. It doesn’t feel like it’s changed. I did ride the 2022 model in a different size, as I wanted to see what the 154 felt like in comparison. But yeah, basically the same board.
Hi Nate,
Great stuff on the site; appreciate your opinions and insight. Wanted to pick your brain about a board.
Height: 5’9″
Weight: 155
Ride Style: Mostly groomers, solid speed and carving. in trees and powder sometimes. Don’t do any park or pipe. Ride mostly regular, but do like to work on switch
Boot Size: 10
Would love any board recommendations and sizes for a unicorn free ride board that handle speeds nicely, but all-mountain/freestyle feel that is a bit forgiving.
Thinking about:
GNU RC C3
Lib Tech Terrain Wrecker
Jones Twin
Open to any other suggestions.
Thanks so much,
Shawn
I forgot one thing –
level: adv-inter/expert
Hi Shawn
Thanks for your message.
From the 3 that you’ve mentioned the RC C3 is the most freestyle oriented and the least freeride oriented, IMO. If you were willing to sacrifice powder performance for increased switch riding ability and overall freestyle, particularly for jumps, ability, then I’d go RC C3. But it sounds like you’re looking for something that’s a bit more do-it-all, so the Mountain Twin (MT) and Terrain Wrecker (TR) are probably the better bets. There are of course plenty of other options.
Between the MT and TR, I would probably be leaning MT for what you’re describing, mostly because you don’t do park and want speed performance. The MT is a little better at speed, IMO. The TR is all round better for park/freestyle, but given that you don’t ride park, I think the MT is the better suited option. In terms of been forgiving, the TR is the most forgiving of the 2 – I felt it at a 5/10 flex and just all round pretty easy going. The MT is still forgiving enough though – it’s certainly not super aggressive or unforgiving (in terms of flex I felt it at a 6/10).
Some other options that you might like would be the YES Standard or Rossi One.
Or if you were willing to sacrifice switch for better powder, you could also look at something from my >>Top 10 Surfy (mellow) Freeride Snowboards list. Not everything there will be suitable as a daily driver though – so I would only look at the Lib Tech BRD (though you may not want to sacrifice that much in terms of switch), GNU Hyper, Capita Navigator or YES Hybrid.
Sorry to add even more options in there, just wanted to cover all the bases – I’d only go there if you were willing to have a bit of a harder time working on switch. Otherwise, I think MT, YES Standard or Rosi One, would work well, IMO.
Size-wise:
MT: 154 (157 doable, but I’d be leaning 154)
Standard: 153 (this board is a little wider than average, so sizing down makes sense here, IMO.
One: 156
RC C3: 154.5
If you’re after sizing for any of the other options, just let me know.
Hope this helps
Awesome stuff and appreciate the details.
Gonna through on some Union Falcors.
Think the MT and the Falcors are a solid set-up for all-mountain, carving, speed, and cruising. If I go with TR; what size would you recommend there?
Hi Shawn
Yeah, you could definitely throw the Falcor’s on the MT. It’s going to be a lively ride with those on there, but definitely a match for the MT, IMO. I wouldn’t go stiffer than the Falcor on the MT, but the Falcor still within a good flex range, IMO. If you were to put them on the TR, which I haven’t actually attempted, but I should since I own both, it might get a bit twitchy. If we had snow already I’d take that combo out tomorrow to test it out (because I’m really curious now), but alas it’s not here yet! But I suspect it would get a little on the twitchy side.
Size-wise for the TR, I’d say go 154. But if you wanted to get a bit more out of it for speed, carving whilst sacrificing a little in terms of maneuvearbility when riding slower, then the 157 is an option. You’d likely feel the 157 stiffer than 5/10 as well. How much stiffer is hard to say, but maybe more like 6/10 or 5.5/10.
Thanks Nate!
Picked up a pair of Union Falcors; any suggestions on which board would pair nicely with those?
Doing a lot of East Coast Riding, groomers, steeps, in/out of trees, love carving and speed, but with a bit of flex/forgiving ride and switch. Let me know if you think there are any other boards that would be a good fit. Sounds like this year’s MT may be a bit softer/more freestyle minded.
Thanks,
Shawn
Hi Shawn
The 2021 Mountain Twin got a bit more forgiving, but that forgiveness came mostly from the spoon shaping the base got. Didn’t really get any softer, by my feel. But certainly a little more playful/forgiving. This years MT is basically the same as 2021s.
I think it would pair with the Falcor’s fine, the Falcor’s are on the stiffer end of the range for the MT, like I was saying, but still a match, IMO.
But if you did want a slightly stiffer board and more directional, you can certainly go stiffer with the Falcors. You could go up to 8/10 flex with the Falcor’s. Given that you want a bit of flex/forgiveness in your ride, I wouldn’t go that stiff in the board though – but you could certainly still go to 6.5/10 or 7/10 and still have some forgiveness. Let me know if you think you’d want to go a little stiffer and I can give you some good recommendations in that 7/10 flex range.
If you want to stay at around that 6/10 flex and still want decent switch riding, then the One or Standard are certainly still options, if you’re worried about the MT feeling too forgiving.
Hi Nate,
Awesome website. I am an in the low intermediate ability level, and currently in the groomed blue runs. My goals for next season are to have some fun and learn switch and some safe flat ground butters. I am 42 so not interested in hitting rails, the park, or half pipe. What boards would you recommend for riding blues and easy blacks, that can also be fun to learn switch and butters on? I currently ride a Ride Highlife 2011, which I think might be too stiff and directional for my next season goals. I am 6ft, 180 lbs, and size 11.5 boot.
Hi Ethan
Thanks for your message.
Yeah, I would agree that the highlife is too stiff to make butters easy and too directional to be great for switch.
I think you’re in the right place for what you’re describing. I’d say everything on this list is going to be suitable for what you’re describing and you could also add in the Capita OSL to that list. Depending on how playful you wanted to go, I would say that the Rider’s Choice is the most playful of those on this list, with the Greats and Proto Synthesis being the most aggressive (though still not super aggressive, I’ve got a separate list for more aggressive all-mountain freestyle boards), with the Assassin, OSL and Asymulator in the middle of those.
Another thing to consider is if you want to stick with a similar camber profile to the Highlife (Hybrid Camber) or are open to trying something different. The Highlife has a directional Hybrid camber, so none of these will be exactly the same – but the Greats, Assassin, OSL and Asymulator all have Hybrid Camber (camber between the feet and under the feet with rocker towards tip and tail) and the Rider’s Choice and Proto Synthesis have Hybrid Rocker profiles (rocker between the feet – camber underfoot and towards tip and tail).
Hope this gives you more to go off
Thanks Nate!
You’re very welcome Ethan. Happy riding!
Hey Nate,
Yet another sizing question 🙂 After heavy, Aggressive All Mountain (ways beyond 100km/h) / Backcountry sessions over the last 25 years I came to conclusion that my two young kids might be good opportunity to open a new chapter in snowboarding. I’m searching for a playful, buttery board that will perform well in switch.
I rode the last 10 years only Lib Techs, guess more ore less all of them around 157. I made one exception (Jones Hovercraft) which did not perform at all for me (well on pow, terrible on groomer), sold it after 2 weeks vacation on Japan pow.
Since I’m mainly riding high mountains in Switzerland (>3000m) I need something with good edge hold. Also since I will not be able to change my habits totally, the board should have some good carve/high speed characteristics. Thats how I came across this board and I’m quite sure it will be a match.
My profile is similar to yours I think, height: 183cm (6 foot), weight: ~84kg (185lbs), boots 43 (US10), from that and giving that I rode almost all the time Lib’s 157 I take that I should go for the 156. Now the situation is the following, I prefer the 2019/2020 design a lot over the current design, I’m even willing to pay more for the old board. Only draw back, I find this online only in 154 🙂
So my question, do you think 154 will also perform for me or would you strongly recommend the 156? I read on several places this board can/should be downsized to keep agility. (edge 2 edge)
I’m very interested into your opinion, many thanks advance.
Cheers,
Phil
Hi Phil
Thanks for your message.
I’m assuming you’re talking about the Greats? Assuming that, I think this would be a really good option for what you’re describing.
As far as sizing goes, I would say 156. For me that is sizing down. I would say my all-mountain size is around 159-160, though I do tend to ride 157-159 for all-mountain boards for the most part. For this board, going a little shorter definitely makes sense, given it’s width. I wouldn’t say that the 154 would be wrong for you – and it’s a size I would be happy to ride on this board I would say (I haven’t tried the 154 so I couldn’t say for sure, but based on how the 156 rides and other times when I’ve ridden the same board in 2 sizes 2cm apart, I’d say I would enjoy the 154). Only thing would be is that you would loose some of that stability at speed with the 154 versus the 156. I don’t think it would turn into a squirrelly mess or anything, but there would be some sacrifice there. The 154 would feel more playful and a little softer than the 156 and be a little more agile edge-to-edge.
So yeah, definitely a board to downsize on, depending on boot size, but it’s a board I would downsize on with 10s. But for your specs and for me, 156 is already downsizing a little. Given that you’re used to riding 157, though, the 156 wouldn’t be much of a downsize, so 154 could certainly work – keeping in mind the pros and cons of going smaller.
Hope this helps with your decision
NATE! I had to comment after reading your reviews. I’ve put in weeks of research looking for my first purchase which pales in the research you’ve done here. Killing it! All of these had made it onto my list of boards to check out; although, I was getting the vibes on other forums that many preferred the Proto Type Two to its successor. Anyways, I have grown up on pretty much all boards except a snowboard but picked it up fairly quick in my two trips, working some flips and spins into the mix at the park.
I have my third trip coming up this March (success!), and have been looking to complete my “Rocket Power” board setup. I am 5’10”, 155 lbs (was 197 lbs before injury, so looking for a board to weight up to), size US 10.5 thirtytwo boot (US 10 boot for most other boards). I like to have fun at the park with rails and launching off ramps, hit some shrubbery on the slopes, and bomb some drop offs and get some gnarly carving down the hill. This coming trip I am looking to learn some buttery surface tricks. I’m a firm believer in “switch” days to become as technically skilled of a rider as I can, so a twin board is one of my targeting criteria – I ain’t about that heelside hero life (or whatever snowboarders would refer to the directional riders as). While there are no boards that do everything, I’m looking for a jack of all trades. The least of my riding will be rail oriented.
If you have any tips or guidance, it would be much appreciated. The Yes Greats and GNU Rider’s Choice look to fit my wants, but I am not sure how much I would struggle from the speed component or hitting up untouched powder with my group. I was trying to google for your rankings for other years, but was unsuccessful.
You da’ man!
Also, that 18/19 graphic for the Yes Greats is straight up dirty. Wish I could find them on sale 3rd party, or anywhere for that matter.
Hi Dakota
Thanks for your messages.
To access previous year’s lists, check out:
>>Snowboard Top 10s
Then scroll to the bottom and click on the button “2019-29 Top 10 Lists”. That will take you to last years, and then when your there, there is a similar button at the bottom if you wanted to go any further back.
I have the 18/19 Greats (but love that board, so not for sale unfortunately 🙂 )
Given that you’re looking for a twin, there’ll always be some compromise on powder performance, but something like the Rider’s Choice is a good powder option for a twin. Greats not bad either as far as twins go. The Assassin (or Assassin Pro) are also good options. They’re directional twin, but still with a centered reference stance – and really feel like twins except in powder, IMO. Some others you might be interested in, given the way you describe your riding:
>>Top 5 Aggressive All-Mountain-Freestyle Snowboards
Hope this helps
Also, adding on to my earlier comment I currently ride last years funslinger. It’s a super fun board but I just want a bit more drive for carving and riding at higher speeds with out sacrificing that great catch free feel the board has. Do you think the proto synthesis could be a good option?
Hi Ndawg7
Thanks for your messages.
After reading your first message, the Proto Synthesis was certainly one that came to mind as an option, so I think that’s definitely a possibility. The Proto Synthesis isn’t quite as catch-free as the Funslinger, IMO, but it’s certainly not a board I found catchy.
But I think you’re definitely on the right page here for what you’re describing – anything from this list would do the job, assuming you get the right size.
I would be happy to give a sizing opinion, if you wanted one. Would just need your height, weight (which I already have), boot size. Riding style/ability come into sizing too, but I already have that info. So just the height and boot size is all I would need. If you could also let me know the size of the Capita Mercury too.
Thanks for the quick response. I’m about 5’11.5 and were a size 9 boot. I rode the 155 mercury.
Hi Ndawg7
IMO the 155 Mercury was a good bit too big for you particularly taking into account the combo of length and width. I would put you closer to 152-ish. Personal preference comes into it for sure, if you prefer riding longer than that, but purely based on specs and how you describe your riding 155 too big, IMO.
For the Proto Synthesis, I would go 152. I would even consider the 149, if you wanted something more optimized for freestyle and riding trees. For the others here, if you’re consider others, these are the sizes I would look at:
Greats: 151
Rider’s Choice: 151.5
Asymulator: 152
Assassin: 150
Thank you! Really appreciate it.
You’re very welcome Ndawg7. If you think of it at the time, let me know what you go with and how you get on, once you get a chance to get it out on snow. Happy riding!
Hey Nate,
So i’m looking for a board. I tried the Capita Mercury and really disliked it. I’m and intermediate rider and maybe on the low end of advance but just had a terrible time on the mercury. It was hard to turn for me and just felt like it needed to much muscle. I’m only 125 pounds so that could be part of the issue. I am now looking for a new board. I’m still somewhat learning to carve, i’m close to being a proficient carver but just not quite their. I want something that is easy to turn and can handle skidded turns but at the same time be able to carve so I can progress with it and also be stable at speeds. Not a big park guy but looking to progress in their as well. Also want to get better at sidehits/jumping and buttering. Any recommandations? The mercury also felt slightly to catchy for me. Thanks in advance.
Hi Nate, I am looking for an all moutain freestyle board that has great edge hold for midwest conditions. I am 5’8, 15 y/o, 135 lb, and a mid to high intermediate rider. The perfect board would be a great all moutain performer, greag edge hold, and pretty good in the park with good jibbing abilities (I am an intermediate park rider, I prefer jibs, I can do 5050’s and some boardslides, and 180’s off, on jumps I can do 180’s and 360’s).
So far I have found that the Never Summer protosynthesis and the Gnu riders choice are almost perfect for me. However, they are both quite expensive for me at around $600.
I have found that the Nitro Team is also good and the Capita DOA aswell. However, they both sacrifice something. The Nitro team is not as good in the park on jibs and the DOA sacrifices non-park all mountain perfomance like carving.
Also is the Nitro team gullwing better in the park than the regular team?
So my question is, what would you recommend (even if it is expensive) for me?
Thanks so much
Hi Josh
I would say that the Team Gullwing is a little better on jibs than the Team and I found them kind of equal on jumps, but with different qualities. The pop from the Team Gullwing slightly easier to access but overall more pop from the Team, for example. So, I think overall the Gullwing probably a little better in the park, but subtly so.
I think the Proto Synthesis, Rider’s Choice or Greats (depending on sizing) would all be really good options for what you’re describing. I would be leaning Rider’s Choice over Proto Synthesis, just because I think it’s a slightly better jibber, and since you prefer jibs, that could be tie breaker there. If you wanted to favor jibs a little more, with some level of sacrifice to speed capabilities, then you could also check out:
>>My Top 10 Men’s Freestyle Snowboards
But if you wanted to get a balance across the spectrum, then one of Rider’s Choice, Proto Synthesis or Greats would be a good choice, IMO.
Ok very helpful thanks
Would you put the Nitro or gullwing with the recommendations or no?
Hi Josh
I think it would certainly work and I think from what you’re describing I would put it ahead of the DOA and Team Camber, but behind the other 3.
Hey Nate!
Have some questions for you. I am 5,7″, weigh 125 lbs, and have a mens 8 shoes size. Sizing wise I was thinking between a 148 and 151, but I am asking for your opinion.
As for a board, I am interested in an all-mountain freestyle board that will have a non-catch feel but can still hold a decent edge. In other words I like a playful board that can perform when it needs to. I’d like the board to have some sort of tech to grip on ice because I am an East coast rider, but I don’t want it to catch when jibbing. That being said some boards I had mind include Capita Doa, Yes The Great, Arbor Westmark camber, and the Ride Warpig twin.
As for my concerns I am worried that the Capita Doa and Yes The Grea will be a little stiff because I am so light. For the Arbor Westmark camber I am worried for the catchy feeling, along with performance it’s performance on ice. As for the ride warpig twin I am worried it will be so short that it will be too stiff to play around on.
If you can respond that’d be great, thanks!
Hi Jack
Thanks for your message.
Size-wise, I would try not to go any longer than 149 with your specs and for the style of riding you’re describing. Of the boards you’ve mentioned the Twinpig 148 fits that sizing, but it’s wide for your boots, IMO, which means you might want to size down from 148. However, the next size down in the Twinpig is 142, which is too small, IMO. Also I would be concerned in terms of performance on ice with the Twinpig – certainly more so than I would be with the Arbor Westmark Camber which is actually OK in icy conditions. The Greats is the best there in icy conditions, but the 151 is going to be too big, IMO. The DOA comes in a good size for you, IMO, in the 148 and in that size I don’t think you would feel it too stiff. My only real concern there would be the icy conditions performance – plus it’s not the most un-catchy board going around, IMO, and since that’s something you’re specifically looking for, it’s worth mentioning.
Some other great options though, if you’re happy to look outside those 4:
– Lib Tech Box Knife 148
– Never Summer Peacemaker 149
– Never Summer Proto Synthesis 149
– Never Summer Proto Slinger 149 or 146
– Niche Wraith 149
– Salomon The Villain 147
– Slash Happy Place 149 (or 146)
– YES Basic 149
– GNU Finest 148
– GNU Money 148
– Salomon Huck Knife 148
If you search the site, I have reviews for all but those except the GNU Money and the Salomon Villain. There might be a good fit amongst those for you. I would look into each in more detail to make sure it sounds like the kind of board you want, but size-wise, I think those all work for your specs and your riding style.
Hope this helps
Super helpful article! Thanks for the reviews.
Thanks Tyler – and you’re very welcome
Hey Nate. Just came on to your reviews and enjoy. So, I’m 40 with some major injuries. Advanced level rider but, my hay day was back in they late 90’s riding 4-5 days a week. Hitting big kickers and small half pipes when they were new. Fast forward Ti the last 20 years I make it out a few times a year. Bummer. I can still ride fast with the best of them but I don’t spend much time hitting jumps anymore, definitely won’t spin anymore and find myself hitting smaller kickers and natural hits and doing a lot of bombing. My board is a 20 year old forum 157. I’m not up with the new style boards but need an update. Was thinking all mountain freestyle. What’s your thought. Need a board, bindings and boots.
Hi Matt
Thanks for your message.
Yeah sounds like all-mountain-freestyle is the way to go. Particularly if you’re not necessarily hitting that much powder. Given that you like to bomb, I would also look at the following:
>>Top 5 Aggressive All-Mountain-Freestyle Snowboards
If you feel like you need something a little stiffer, I can also give you other similar options that are a little stiffer.
In terms of boots and bindings, it depends on the board you end up going with. If we narrow down the board, I would be happy to give some boot and binding recommendations to pair it with.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Took me a while to finally comment to ask some advise about which board to get. From Arizona so we pretty much get all types of snow throughout the season. I love going down groomers and going to the park but also tend to search the trees and powder for jumps and runs. that being said I’m leaning toward All mountain freestyle boards but having a hard time deciding which. I’m 5’9 180 lbs size 9 (thirtytwo STW Boa Snowboard Boots). Im an advanced beginner – intermediate and want something that will be good for some time. been looking at a few boards.
Yes. Typo and Basic
Ride Machete , manic, and wild life
Capita Asymulator, and Mercury
Salomon Craft
I know that’s a lot of boards and a wide range of prices but like I said need something good that will last but won’t have me washing out all day because its to advanced. any suggestions will be appreciated. doesn’t have to be from above either
Hi Marc
Thanks for your message.
I think the YES Typo would work well for what you’re describing. I think the YES Basic would be suitable too, but won’t last you as long – and at your level, I think you will be good on the Typo and it will stay with you for longer. And the Typo is just that tiny bit better in pow too.
The Wild Life is something that would be a step up in pow over something like the Typo, but less suitable for park/freestyle stuff. The Manic is more of a beginner board. I think it would be fine for what you’re describing, but I think you would probably grow out of it pretty quickly. The Machete potentially just a bit of a stretch ability-wise.
The Mercury a bit of stretch ability-wise too – might be a bit much board for right now. I think the Asymulator could work though. Not as good in pow – that would be the one thing to consider there.
Salomon Craft isn’t one that I’ve ridden, but on paper it could work for what you’re looking for.
Because you mention powder, I think the Salomon Assassin or GNU Rider’s Choice would work well, or the Capita Outerspace Living. They’re not amazing in powder, but they’re all-mountain-freestyle boards that are better than average in powder.
I think from what you have there, that the Typo is the board that feels the most suitable to me.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
I love the site my friend. I appreciate the interaction and knowledge you provide; its refreshing. I keep referencing my friends to here when they ask Q’s
I am torn, I’m finally upgrading my setup.
I’m 31 6′ 195 pounds, size 12.5 boots.
Riding style:
I’m from AK grew up riding backcountry jumps and moved to Utah 10 years ago, rode park for years, but ever since my little ones were born, now I’m an ex park rat, obviously 🙂
I tend to ride more all mountain backcountry, never miss a pow day, bombing groomers and the weekly cliff drops when it dumps, and I’m feeling it.
I used to ride a 156 while in the park. Moved to a 159 now that I’ve chilled and like to go all over the mountain.
I think I need a 157w-159w, what are your thoughts?
I’ve narrowed down to a couple board based on your reviews:
GNU Riders Choice C2 158W
GNU RC C3
Yes The Greats not sure the size they make yet.
Lib Tech T.Rice Pro HP C2 157W
Obviously, I’m a sucker for Mervin boards, road the skate banana and attack banana for years and years. Not sure why, but I fell in love with em.
As far as bindings go, I’m thinking union of some sort:
Union Force L
Union strata L
Any advice/guidance you can give me on this decision would be so appreciated. I’m grateful for you. I think you’re doing a great service to the community.
Thanks again brother.
Hi Jason
Thanks for your message.
Just a couple of questions to clarify some things.
Will this be the board you use for pow days too? Or do you have a separate board you would use for powder?
Will you be riding switch at all? Landing/taking off switch etc? Know you’re not riding the park anymore, but you might still be doing that over the rest of the mountain?
If this will be your board for powder and you’re not really riding switch much, then you might benefit from going freeride, rather than all-mountain freestyle. If you still didn’t want to go that stiff, then you could check out the second of the 2 lists below:
>> My Top 10 Freeride Snowboards
>>Top 10 Surfy (mellow) Freeride Snowboards
Pay attention to the score breakdowns in there to make sure they’ve got what you want to suit your riding style. There are Mervin boards in both those lists.
If you are still riding switch and doing a fair bit of freestyle over the mountain, then this is a good list to look at (just note that will be not quite as good in powder). Though if you are looking to have something that’s still decent in powder, the Riders Choice, IMO, is the best of the list you have there. The RC C3 not quite as good in powder, and IMO the sizing isn’t going to work for your 12.5 boots, as there are no wide sizes. The 158W is good for your specs, IMO and for what you’re describing.
For the Greats, I would go 159 for you. You might get away with the 156 – and that would likely be the best size if you were still playing in the park, but for you, for all-mountain, I’d go 159. Even though it’s technically not a wide size, it’s the width of a wide board. Probably even a little wider than the Rider’s Choice 158W (which I would estimate to be around 273, 274mm at the inserts versus around 276mm at inserts on the Greats 159). The Greats will be a different feel compared to what you’re used to (being Hybrid Camber versus Hybrid Rocker), so that’s something to consider.
The T Rice Pro isn’t a board I’m personally a big fan of. But I know some people really like it. I think that size would probably be OK for you if you did go in that direction. On paper it would work for what you’re describing, but it’s board I have a hard time recommending, just from my personal experience from it. I think riding in trees was the part I liked the least on it – and just maneuverability in general.
For bindings both the Force and Strata would match with those boards well – particularly the Rider’s Choice, Greats and RC C3. If you go T Rice Pro, then probably something a little stiffer might be a better call. I prefer the Strata, but the Force is still a really good binding. I just prefer the board feel you get from the Strata and a bit more spring out of turns versus the Force, from my experience.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Hi Nate
Thank you a lot for all the information and knowledge you share with us. I finally learn something about snowboard gear. This season I am finally going to buy my first snowboard on my own. Till now I had an old gravity snowboard. I would really appreciate your help with choosing the right one for me.
I am 85-90kg, 188cm tall and 11 US boots size. I am from Europe so usually go snowboarding in Alps. I would describe me as intermediate. I love to go down the fresh rolled ski slope as well as I like to see a ski slope as a playground where I can look for jumps and side paths. This year I would also like to get into park and learn some tricks. I was looking in all mountain and all mountain freestyle /all mountain freestyle aggresive. However I am not sure which boards would be the best option.
From what I see. I really like the Capita Mercury, YES Greats and the Niche Crux. What do you think would suit my style?
Thank you once again and sorry for my grammar.
Hi Jen
Thanks for your message.
If you’re not going to be riding powder that much, then I think something like the YES Greats or Niche Crux would be a really good option. Something all-mtn-freestyle. Would depend on how aggressive you tend to ride. Typically for an intermediate level, I would be leaning to all-mtn-freestyle rather than aggressive all-mtn-freestyle, but I think the Crux is something you could handle – it’s not too unforgiving a ride and if you’re a solid intermediate rider, I think you’d be fine on it, if you thought you wanted something more aggressive. Just to note, I wouldn’t say something like the Greats is super-playful. It’s not un-aggressive, if that makes sense. It’s just not overly aggressive.
Hope this helps with your decision
Thank you Nate once again for your reply. So I have decided to go for YES Greats. As well I will be getting the bindings I think the Union Strata from your review would be the best option. However I am not sure in boots I am choosing between the Adidas Tactical ADV and VANS Infuse both found in your reviews. My size is 10.5 do you think the reduced footprints would be advantage for my size? As well I am thinking of borrowing a splitboard this year and do backcountry track, therefore would be the Vans Infuse better option as you can change the flex with those?
Hi Jen
Yeah, I think going Low Profile is advantageous with 10.5 boots. It won’t be necessary on the Greats. But if you were to pick up another board down the line at some point and still had the same boots, and that board was narrower, it could be helpful. And there’s no downside to low profile boots.
Assuming both the Infuse and Tactical ADV are a good fit for you, then I think the Infuse would be a good choice, if you’re going to be splitboarding – like you say, to allow you to stiffen them up. Just note that the fit for both those boots is quite different. The Infuse are narrower boots and have a lower arch. The Tactical ADV are a wider fit. So, if you have wide feet, then the Tactical ADV will likely be a better fit. Of course, if you can try on, that’s ideal, but if you can’t, here are something to look out for with different brands:
Sizing Snowboard Boots: The Different Brands
I’ve tried both the assassin and the riders choice 2 years ago. Unless these boards have had a total changeover, they are way to stiff for freestyle fun all over the mountain. No buttering, nose roll 360’s and shit for me on these boards. Maybe for a heavier guy…
Hi John
Thanks for your message.
Certainly your weight on the board, depending on the size influences how they feel. I have found both to be fairly buttery. Not like 5/5, but more buttery than the average board. But if you were on a size too long for your weight, you may not have experienced the same thing. If you’re a lighter rider, you might be better off with something more medium-soft for all-mountain-freestyle riding. Probably something from the following, if you find these boards too stiff, would be more appropriate:
>>My Top 10 Men’s Freestyle Snowboards
Hope this helps
Hi Nate! hope all is well. was wondering if you had a chance to try RIDE twinpig?
Hi Niv
I haven’t had the chance to ride the Twinpig yet, unfortunately.
whats your opinion on wide boards ? im 6’1 and weight about 178-180 pounds. I usually ride 155- 157 boards depends on the width but with the twinpig since its a wide board i was thinking about the 151.
Hi Niv
Thanks for your message.
Partly depends on your boot size, IMO. If the board is wide for your boots, then sizing down definitely a good idea. And in the case of the Twinpig the 151 probably rides more like a 155, 156 roughly I would say. I found the 154 Warpig to ride more like a 159, 160 – with size 10 boots. The 151 Twinpig isn’t quite as wide as the 154 Warpig, so I would say it probably rides 4-5cm longer. So, if you’re used to riding 155-157, then I think the 151 would be your best bet.
However, if you have bigger feet, then how much you want to size down lessens, IMO. E.g. if you had size 12s or something, then the 154 is probably the better bet.
Hope that makes sense and helps with your decision
Hi Nate,
First off thanks for all you do on this site, it’s an invaluable source of information to me and the time you take to help people out in the comments is really appreciated.
So a bit of advice if you could. I started snowboarding again last year after a 20 year hiatus. I picked it up again fairly quickly and would say I’m currently sitting right between intermediate level 5 to 6, based on your level chart. I want to start learning switch and jumping more which is my goal for next season. I’m an all mountain rider I guess – groomers, pow, rarely enter parks but will do as I improve.
Last season I hired a board which was pretty flexy and forgiving as it was my first season in years, but this season a mate sold me his Jones Ultra Mountain Twin 157 (2017 model) and I’ve just spent a week with that in Austria. First day the airline lost my board so I jumped on a mate’s Custom Flying V 155 for the day. Felt a little unstable and chattery at speed – not super confidence inspiring, but it made up for it with playfulness and just generally being easy to use, fun and forgiving. We mainly boarded pow that day and it felt easy to hit natural jumps etc (even though I rarely landed them), but on the piste it felt a bit too loose for me at speed.
Rest of the week on the Jones UMT and I can see why this board has such a good rep. In good snow I was bombing it and it’s super confidence inspiring on carves etc, but on more uneven terrain and jumps I found it a bit too stiff and difficult to handle for my level of riding.
So I’m basically looking for a board more my level that’s less stiff (but at the same time not crazy flexy), and that I’ll be able to progress on without outgrowing it any time soon – somewhere in between the Flying V and the UMT I guess.
From reading your reviews the below stood out to me, but would be good to know if you think any of these might be too advanced or unsuitable, and also if you have any other suggestions I’ve not mentioned:
Yes Greats, Gnu Riders Choice, Capita Asymulator, YES Typo, Custom X Flying V, YES Standard
I’m 43 yrs old, 178cm, 69kg, and will be riding Burton Genesis bindings (which I just ordered after reading your review) and Adidas Tactical ADV boots.
Cheers!
Ian
Hi Ian
Thanks for your message.
Firstly, I think you’ve compiled a good list there, in terms of something that’s in between the Process Flying V and UMT. Just because you didn’t like the feeling of the Process Flying V, I think, even though it’s a little stiffer/more stable, that the Custom Flying V is probably out. It has a fairly similar feel to the Process Flying V. Not exactly, but I think it’s safer to cross that off.
Everything else there is a little more stable feeling, but softer flexing than the UMT – and overall easier to handle vs something like the UMT, and certainly easier than the UMT for the likes of side hits, park etc. And requires less advanced a level. I would say in terms of a feeling of stability vs a looser feel that the order of loose to stable would be:
– Burton Custom Flying V
– GNU Rider’s Choice (still more stable feeling than the Process Flying V and Custom Flying V, but not as much as the others here)
– Capita Asymulator
– YES Typo
– YES Greats
– YES Standard (still more playful/softer flexing than the UMT though).
In terms of powder performance, since you’re looking to get in the pow, I would say, from worst to best in powder:
– Capita Asymulator
– YES Greats
– YES Typo
– GNU Rider’s Choice
– YES Standard
– Burton Custom Flying V
I think they all fit into a good middle ground between something like the Process Flying V and UMT, so you’re good there, but hopefully that gives you a bit more to go off on those particular factors. There are reviews/scores for each of the boards above on the site, so if you wanted to check out how they are at other factors such as jumps, speed, carving etc, check those out too, but hopefully that’s a bit more to go off to narrow it down a bit.
Size-wise, I think something around 153-155 is a good range to look at for your specs/how you’re describing your riding. So I think partly the UMT being on the longer side for you as well, would have contributed to it being “more board” as well.
I would be happy with that boot/binding combo on any of those options.
If you narrow down those options to 2 or 3, I would be more than happy to give you my sizing opinion for the particular boards too. I would just need your boot size as well.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the quick reply Nate.
Boot size is a US 10.5 (I’ve seen that most people size down on the Tactical but I had to go a full size up – could be due to the 2020 gold liner instead of silver on the 2019 perhaps).
What you’ve told me above is super useful, and after checking out reviews of each board I’ve narrowed it down to the Greats and the Typo, with me leaning more towards the Greats. Just seen the 2021 versions of these boards online too and the Greats in particular is a thing of beauty.
I’d guess a 154 would be my size, but would be good to know if you think that’ll work with my boot size. I see that it’s now a wider board than previous iterations so hopefully it’ll work.
Thanks again
Ian
Hi Ian
Yeah I would go 154 for you, for sure. Definitely wide enough for 10.5s, IMO. Overall a really good length and width for you, IMO.
If you went Typo, I’d say 155 is best. It would be between that and the 156W. But, with Tactical ADVs I’d say you would be fine width-wise on the 155, though it’s a good bit narrower than the Greats 154. It would be more borderline, but I think it would be fine.
Amazing. Again thanks so much for taking the time to help me out, it’s super appreciated.
Cheers
Ian
You’re very welcome Ian. Stay safe and happy riding – the next chance you get to get to snow
Hey Nate!
Your site is the cause of LOTS of procrastination! In a good way 😉
Having only ever had rental gear before I am looking at buying my first set of board, boots and bindings, I plan to go roughly 5-6 days a year. I’d say my skill level is high beginner/low intermediate, I’ve progressed onto blue runs but struggle on some of the more difficult ones and starting to do butters/jumps/ollies. So onto my predicament, I believe the order of purchase should probably be boots first and then match that to bindings/board so that you can get the correct size, right?
Having yet to buy boots, I was reading about some of the boards and was looking at Capita Outerspace Living, Salomon Assassin and the YES Greats – thinking I want to get a board I can grow on. Upon my research I stumbled across an ex-demo model of the YES Greats 2020 which has only been ridden twice for ~408USD. Do you think this deal is too good to pass up and is there anything I should be concerned about with an ex-demo or should I look at another board entirely? Should I be looking at the 154 or 156? Last time I went to the snow the boots I hired were the Salomon Faction RTL (speedlace) in an 8.5 and I was on a Burton Progression 156W (the rental shop sized me up in about a minute).
Thanks for the help!
Hi Jono
Thanks for your message.
Firstly, they definitely shouldn’t have put you on a wide board with 8.5 boots. But often times rental shops give you what’s available and/or put very little though into sizing.
The Greats is definitely intermediate doable. It’s probably more ideal for solid intermediate and up, more so than high end beginner/low intermediate – but if you are confident you can work with it, it’s doable. The Greats is a wider board, so with 8.5s you’ve got to be careful it’s not too wide. It’s something I like to size down a little, depending on boot size. With 8.5s the 156 will be quite wide, so I would suspect that the 154 is better. However, if you can let me know your height and weight, I can give you a more accurate sizing recommendation. If the rental shop gave you a wide board, I wouldn’t trust that 156 is the best length for you, necessarily.
In terms of buying an ex-demo model, or any used model, there’s always some risk, but hopefully after riding it just twice, it should still be in pretty good condition. But there’s always some risk.
I think out of the 3, the OSL would be the most appropriate, in terms of being something that will be good for your current level, but that you can still grow into. But if you can let me know your height and weight, as sizing might also influence the best option.
But yeah, often a good idea to get boots first, but if you know your size, then it’s not critical, but still a good idea, if you can.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate, thanks for the helpful response!
Totally agree that getting the boots first is a good idea, I guess this option to buy a cheap ex-demo YES Greats prompted me into thinking maybe I should try and snag it if it is in good condition. To be honest, initially I may very well have just gone the OSL purely because of the price. My specs:
Height: 183cm (6 foot)
Weight: ~84kg (185lbs)
Do you think even the 154 Greats might be too big? What length OSL might you consider? Maybe I should just be forgoing the discount and do it properly by getting boots first and allow that to drive my board length.
Thanks for the awesome input!
Hi Jono
Thanks for the extra info.
For your specs, I would say something around 156-158 for an all-mountain-freestyle board, as a high end beginner, going on intermediate rider.
So the Greats 154 is certainly not too big in terms of length. But because of it’s width (and I’m assuming US8.5 boots, but correct me if it’s not US sizing) it is quite wide for your boots. Sizing to 156 for that board would make sense, but even then it’s on the wider side. I have similar height/weight specs as you, but with size 10 boots. I like to size down to the 156 and that works really well for me. But I’m just not sure about sizing down to 154 – but I’m not sure about the 156 either, in terms of the width it would be for 8.5s.
I wouldn’t say boots are the biggest determining factor for board length, but they do influence it in some ways, and certainly have a big say on a board’s width. If you go boots first, keep in mind that if you are looking at a mid-flexing board like the ones you’re considering, then I would make sure to get a mid flexing boot. I personally don’t like riding boots that are too soft for the board and I’ve heard a lot say similar.
For the OSL, it would be between the 156 and 158. I would be leaning towards 156. Even though it’s not that wide a board, if you do end up on 8.5s, then going on the shorter side might make sense. But you could certainly ride the 158 too. For the Assassin I’d go 156 too.
hello nate, do you think union falcor would be too rigid for yes greats or could work together ?
Hi Rico
I ride my Greats with my Falcors, and I like the setup. The Falcor’s are certainly a little on the stiffer side for the Greats, but I always prefer to go either flex-match or slightly stiffer with bindings vs board. The Falcor are certainly the stiffest I would go on the Greats, but I think they do work together. You can certainly go softer on the Greats too though. I also enjoy riding it on my Malavitas.
thanks for your response and success with what you do here!
You’re very welcome Rico
Hi Nate
I wanted to thank you for all the snowboard reviews you post! I’ve been reading through them for the past couple of weeks. They’ve been very insightful!
However, i have been stuck between choosing the right board and would love to hear your advice. I have narrowed down my board choices between the Proto type II, Yes The Greats, and GNU Riders choice. My biggest concern is my boot size,( i am 191cm and 85kg) i have just bought new burton photons step ons (size 12), and i am worried about dragging my heels/toes on the snow while carving, especially with Yes Greats. Should i lean towards Proto II or GNU because they are wider or i should be good with 159 Yes Greats.
I am really looking for you response, as i can’t make my mind for over a month now. I need to upgrade from my burton blunt to a one board quiver killer do it all, ASAP as it stops me from progressing bigger jumps and getting some proper speed down the slope.
Hi Mat
Thanks for your message.
All really good choice, IMO, so there isn’t a wrong choice there, but maybe looking at sizing can help to narrow it down.
Length-wise, I would be looking at around 159-162 for your specs, for these types of boards. But personal preferences, what sizes you’ve ridden in the past etc should also be taken into account.
In terms of width the Greats is wider than it looks. Estimated width at inserts for each of the 3 boards are (based on measuring a different size of each):
– YES Greats 159: 276mm
– GNU Rider’s Choice 158W or 162W: 273mm
– Never Summer Proto Type Two 161X: 273mm
– Never Summer Proto Type Two 158X: 271mm
So whilst the Rider’s Choice and PT2 look wider based on their waist width, there is a much smaller difference between waist and inserts on those boards vs the Greats. So at the inserts (which is where toe/heel drag becomes a problem) I would estimate that the Greats is actually a little wider. I think you would be fine on any of those options width-wise.
In terms of length, it would depend partly on how you ride, what you prioritize and what you’ve ridden and liked in the past. Generally, if you want a more nimble ride that’s easier to butter and in general better for freestyle and riding trees, then going a little shorter is a good idea. If you prioritize stability at speed or float in powder (though these boards aren’t great in powder in general anyway, but more surface area means better float in a like for like board), then going longer is the best bet.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey Nate,
Your reviews have been an amazing help as I take this journey to finding a new board. I’m interested in a shorter, playful freestyle board as my current Capita Black Snowboard of Death is on the stiffer and longer side. I’ve been focusing on riding switch while mixing in butters and natural side hits. The boards I keep seeing on the top lists for freestyle boards are the PT2 and Yes. Greats so curious to know which you think would be best for me (as well as size reco).
I’m an intermediate to advanced rider, snowboarding primarily on the East Coast so the conditions aren’t the best. I’m 5’8″ and 180 lbs with a 8-9 size boot.
Thanks!
Hi Zach
Thanks for your message.
Both are awesome boards, but in your case between the two I would be looking at the PT2 in the 154. The biggest reason I would go PT2 for you, is that I think it has a better size for you. With the Greats, I would say you’d probably want to go to the 151, just for how wide it would be for your boots, but I feel like 151 is probably too short for your in terms of length. The PT2 154 would be a good length and width for they type of riding you’ll be doing with it, IMO.
And is probably a good compliment to your longer BSOD. What is the size of your BSOD by the way? Just want to make sure your quiver is well balanced.
I would say that the Greats is slightly better in hard/icy conditions, but the PT2 is really good in that respect too, so I wouldn’t use that as a deal breaker.
Also note that these boards aren’t super soft, if that’s what you were looking for. Certainly softer than the BSOD. I would rate BSOD 7/10 for flex and the PT2 5/10 and the Greats maybe closer to 5.5/10. So you’re definitely getting softer but not ultra-soft. If that’s what you’re looking for – freestyle oriented boards that can ride the rest of the mountain and aren’t super soft, then these are great options and I would go with the PT2 154, but if you wanted something even softer, then check out:
>>My Top 10 Men’s Freestyle Snowboards
Hope this helps with your decision
That helps a ton! My BSOD is a 159.
I was leaning toward The Greats and found last years model in a 156 (For a nice discount) but sounds like that would be too big. I’ll see if I can find a PT2 to demo before making a decision. Any other board you think would be good to check out? Jackpot? Evil Twin? Nitro Shtik?
Thanks again!
Hey Zach
Yeah, I think the 156 would be a bit big, mostly because of the width. And I think something a little shorter.
The Jackpot is also wider than most, despite what the waist looks like. The width at inserts is wider than you would think. That said, the narrower waist does help with maneuverability, even with the wider insert width, but still going to be on the wider side. But still a little narrower than the Greats overall.
For reference, the width at inserts for the the 154s for the Greats, Jackpot and PT2 are likely around:
Greats 154: 270mm
Jackpot 154: 268mm
PT2 154: 258mm
Also note, though that if you’re looking at the 2019 model Jackpot or earlier, then it’s not as wide (the 2020 model became wider) – the 2019 model 154 Jackpot is 263mm at the inserts.
I don’t currently test Bataleon or Nitro, so I can’t say much about the Evil Twin or Shtik, but size-wise, I think the 154s would work well. Generally, I think as a good compliment to your 159 BSOD, that something around 154-156 would be a good range to look at.
Hey Nate
since I found your site I have been All over it trying to soak up as much info as possible! Thank you so much for putting all of this information together it’s a big help.
But I think I need a little more if you have the time. For a while now I’ve been obsessing over finding the perfect board for this season and the next 5 or more seasons to come. I’m looking for something I can have fun on all over the mountain. But I’m not sure if I should get an all mountain board at an all mountain freestyle. I know nothing is going to be perfect for every situation but I like to have options.
I’m 5’10”-5’11”
160lbs
10.5 boot
Since I started riding I’ve been on a 155
I would like to say I’m an intermediate rider but I’ve only been on the mountain a few days in the past few years since moving to the east coast.
Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!
Hi Salomon
Further to comments on the Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards Post, comparing the Custom Camber and Paramount, as 2 boards you were considering – I would say that the Custom Camber is an all-mountain board, but it’s relatively freestyle focused for an all-mountain board – so it’s pretty close to being all-mountain-freestyle. The Paramount, I classify as a freestyle board, but it could well be considered an all-mountain-freestyle board, but it’s on the more freestyle end of the spectrum, if that makes sense.
The biggest discussion between all-mountain and all-mountain freestyle is that an all-mountain board (at least how I classify them) are typically better in powder and all-mountain-freestyle boards are typically better for riding switch (and landing/taking off switch of course) – and are often better for jumps. So, I would say if you don’t expect to see too much powder, then an all-mountain freestyle board would be a good way to go. If you’ll see powder a reasonable amount, then all-mountain.
The Custom Camber and Paramount are quite aggressive boards, if you’re still considering those. Just wanted to point that out as their traditional camber profiles can feel quite catchy if your more of a low intermediate level. Should be no issues for a solid intermediate and/or if you’ve ridden traditional camber relatively regularly in the past and had no issues.
Size-wise, I think something around 155, 156 is a good length for you, based on your specs and riding style – so I would stick with something around that.
Hope this helps with your decision
Nate you are amazing! Very knowledgeable and thorough. I’m going to see if my local shop carries or can get any of you recommendations. If not I’ll pick up the paramount.
Thank you so much for your time and patience.
You’re very welcome Salomon. Hope you have an awesome season and enjoy your new deck, whichever you end up with!
Hey Nate-
Super helpful info on the site. much appreciated.
I’m in debate between the GNU Rider’s Choice & Never Summer Proto Type 2. Both look like fantastic choices. Can you help distinguish some of the differences you see or feel? The specs look to be super similar so I’m having a tough time deciding which would be a better fit.
I see you’ve rated the Proto Type 2 as a better carving board but the Riders choice as a slightly better Pow, Jibbing, Jumping and Pipe board. Was this just personal feel or do you think different specs in the boards making this difference?
I’m 6’2 175 w/ a size 11 boot:
Proto Type 2 – either 160 or 157 (nervous on the 252Cm waist width) maybe 158W but I’d prefer more narrow.
Riders choice – 157 looks solid.
What would you recommend??
thanks a bunch for the help
Hi Ben
Thanks for your message.
Can’t go wrong with either, for sure. And yeah look quite similar specs-wise, and are quite similar overall, but still have a slightly different feel to each other.
The Rider’s Choice, I found, was just a touch on the looser/surfier side – and that’s what contributes to it being a little better in powder and not as good on a carve. Not sure if there’s a bit more rocker in the profile vs the PT2 or if the PT2 has more aggressive camber sections? But there’s something there.
The GNU feels a little lighter/snappier and the pop I found was super easy to extract and there’s some really good pop there. I would say that the PT2 probably has the same pop but just takes that little bit more to load it up. Not that’s it’s hard to load up at all, it’s a subtle difference, but that’s one of the factors I take into account for jumps. But both are certainly great jumping boards. In terms of pipe the main difference is that the Rider’s Choice is just that little bit better in hard/icy conditions. The PT2 is still good in that area though, but the Rider’s Choice just that little bit better, by my feel.
Size-wise – in terms of width, I actually measured both the Rider’s Choice and the PT2 at 260mm at the inserts. So whilst the RC is wider at the waist, it’s not any wider at the inserts (typical of GNU/Lib Tech boards to be not that different between waist and inserts). I’m typically comfortable with anything as narrow as 255mm with size 10s. With 11s, I think I’d want to go more up to 265mm but 260mm might be doable. But I’d say it’s pushing it a bit – if you have low profile boots, and assuming you’ll be riding with +15/-15 angles (which I would recommend that or something similar with these boards as they’re asym boards), then you should get away with it. It also depends on how hard you rail your carves. If you really get up on edge and get low, then that’s adding more risk for them being too narrow. I definitely get that you don’t want to go too wide, but don’t want to go too narrow either.
I predict that the 158W RC would be around 273mm at the inserts and the 158X PT2 would be around 271mm at the inserts. I don’t think those are too wide for 11s, personally. I usually like anything up to 265mm with 10s. With 11s, I think those widths should be fine for you. So, I would be inclined to look at the 158W for those 2 boards for you, unless you feel confident you can get on the narrower options.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hey Nate, I have the same specs as the guy above and I’m looking hard at the Yes Greats and have been riding the Peoto 157 for two years. Would you go wIth a 156 or 154 since this board is so wide?
Hi PJ
Thanks for your message.
For your specs, I would go 156. With 11s it’s not going to be overly wide for you and I think 154 would be getting on the small side. Your riding the 157 Proto (I’m guessing with no boot drag issues?) so it will feel considerably wider than that, but 156 is still sizing down for your specs, IMO, so I think that’s the best bet.
Going to 154 you’re going to be dropping a noticeable amount of effective edge vs the 157 Proto, and might feel a little small for you.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi Nate. I have these 2 options (on sales at my local store) :
GNU Asym Riders Choice C2X 161.5 or Libtech TRS HP C2X 159MW.
I’m 6’2 / 190 lbs/boots size 10, I’m an advanced rider.
I used to ride a Libtech Attack Banana 161 and when an edge broke, I bought the same board but 1 year more recent but @ 156W , which was awesome in the woods but was kinda ‘flapping / clapping’ when I was lending med-big jumps.
What do you think? Is there a big difference between those 2 boards?
Hi Sash
Not a massive difference between those boards. Not exactly the same either, but more in common than different.
One of the main differences is the asymmetry that the Riders Choice has that the TRS doesn’t. I personally really like asymmetrical boards and this for me puts the Rider’s Choice ahead of the TRS, Just overall I liked it just a bit more. On paper, the TRS is supposed to be stiffer than the Rider’s Choice, but I found them very similar. If the TRS is stiffer it’s only subtly so.
Not too surprised about your comments on the 156W, with your specs, so yeah, I agree that going a little longer is preferable. Between the 161.5 Rider’s Choice and 159MW TRS it’s a tough one. Usually, with size 10s, I would say not to go wide/mid-wide, but the TRS 159MW isn’t overly wide – from measuring the 157 TRS the width at the inserts is only 5cm wider than the waist width. If that holds true for the 159MW, which it likely does, then it’s most likely around 265mm wide at the inserts, which is in a good range for 10s, IMO. The Rider’s Choice 161 likely to be around 263mm at the waist (again another board – which Lib Tech/GNU boards tend to be – that isn’t that much wider at the inserts vs the waist). So width-wise, you’re fine on both, IMO. Both will be narrower than the 156W Attack Banana too – and likely similar to the 161 Attack Banana.
Length-wise, it’s a tight call. I’d say generally speaking that anything 159 to 161 would be a good size for you for an all-mtn-freestyle board, so both are within that range. If you were happy on the 161 Attack Banana, then the 161.5 Rider’s Choice might be your best bet – though keeping in mind that the camber profile on the Rider’s Choice and TRS is a little more aggressive/camber oriented, so they’ll likely feel like a little “more board” if that makes sense. But still if you think that 161 was the right size for you, I’d strongly consider the 161.5 Rider’s Choice.
However, if you felt between the 161 and 156W Attack Banana that something in between might be the sweet spot, then the 159MW TRS might be the way to go.
Hope this gives you more to go off for your decision
Whilst, I think the Rider’s Choice is just that little better overall, they’re close enough that going with what you think will be the best size would be the one I’d go with.
Thanks for the quick reply. I’ll go with the Rider’s Choice.
You’re very welcome. Great choice (pun intended!)
Hi Nate. I bought finally the Rider’s Choice 2018-2019 @ -40% off and it’s like the perfect everyday board. I was lucky to have like 3-4 really deep east coast powder days at Jay Peak so far. That board is incredible on jumps, destroys those small bumps after a powder day, floats easily on powder when you are used to ride Gnu/Libtech. When you ride this board, you don’t even ‘bother’ about it. And that asymmetrical shape makes me wonder if I haven’t learned to snowboard on my wrong side at first since switch riding is so easy. Butters are easy and edges never catched. The board could be a bit stiffer although because at high speed (+70kph), starts to wobble a bit. But overall , it’s an effortless board. All my friends who tried it couldn’t believe how easy this board rides. Thanks for all your help. I always enjoy watching your videos.
Hi Sacha
Thanks so much for your feedback and insights. Awesome to hear you’re loving your Riders Choice!
Happy riding
Hey Nate,
I absolutely love this website, I think it stands next to thegoodride as one of the best sites to learn/ get advice on any kind of snowboarding equipment!
I was thinking about getting the Yes. TYPO, but was wondering if I needed a wide board. I am a size 10.5 ( 5’11” , ~ 175 lb athletic build) and I was thinking of getting a 161 length board. Do you think I need a wide board (or am I just splitting hairs?)
Best,
Hi Ax
Thanks for your message.
With 10.5s, you’re kind of on the cuff. But in most cases, IMO, a regular width board is your best bet. In some cases a wide would be better, but usually regular. For the Typo, I would say regular width should be fine, particularly on the 161. Usually for your specs, I would recommend 158 over 161, but if you know you prefer a little longer and want the 161, then all good – and width-wise, I would say fine for 10.5s. The 158 too – it’s not that much narrower, so if you went with that you should be fine too.
If you ride with a really straight back binding angle and have boots with a large profile, then it might be pushing it, but in most scenarios, I would imagine you’re fine on either the 158 or 161 regular width Typo.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate. Would you not recommend setting back my stance on a TRS? If at all how much or how little? Thanks Justin
Hi Justin
Thanks for your message.
Typically I would ride the TRS centered, but that’s not to say you can’t have a bit of setback – particularly if you get a powder day. But I wouldn’t personally do more than 20mm (3/4″).
Hope this helps
No worries, thank you for weighing in so fast.
You’re very welcome dd
Excellent, thank you Nate! I will check out the lists. Also, one quick follow up if I can…….I have an opportunity to pick up a Rome Mechanic pre-loved but in good shape. I think Rome called it the Garage Rocker in the past – are you familiar w/it? Do you think it would work for my purpose of chasing my 9 year old around as he learns, follow him thru the Park, but still have enough stability to handle some speed?
Hi dd
I don’t currently test Rome gear, unfortunately, so I couldn’t say first hand. But based on specs, it looks like it could be an option. But unfortunately I can’t give you any personal insight on that one.
The old Rome Mechanic wasnt that great when it was released and they changed it considerably the next year. If its cheap it may be worth a shot. Im riding a Rome Factory Rocker – The black carnival graphic one. Its good at most things but the base is extruded so its Not that fast, but it still works well without waxing (the base looks patchy though) and the top shows All your fingerprints which may bother you. I like it a lot and mine was an end of season bargain.
Hey Nate – thanks for all the great reviews/advice. Based on your reviews, I picked up a Jones Explorer earlier this season and its been great so thanks for that! Hoping you can help me with a second board and am thinking my needs place it in the freestyle category? Looking for something that I can use with as my 9 year old learns to board. He was a quick study on skis so likely he’ll progress. I want something that handles some speed but is also forgiving/playful when we need to go slow (he’s also expressed park interest, and although I don’t have that desire, I will accompany him for laps there until he’s good to go). Would something from this list work? Or other suggestions? Thanks again!
Hi dd
Something from this list could work. But if you wanted to go even more playful, you could check out something from one of the following, which have some even more playful options too. And some of which are pretty good for handling a bit of speed too. If you’re looking for further score breakdowns on any of those in the Intermediate list, just check out the full review, where available, if you want more score breakdown details. If no full review, just let me know and I can give you more details.
>>My Top 10 Men’s Freestyle Snowboards
>>Top 10 Intermediate Snowboards
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
I see you highly recommend Proto Type Two, and I would like to go with it. However, I am struggling to get a men’s 152 cm or women’s 151.
I am 5’6” and 140 lbs, boot size is 7.5. The main difference is on the waist which are 248 mm and 240 mm, I have one season (12 times) experience, and feel I am about intermediate level. I’d like to develop my carving/turning skill and then learn some freestyle on the mountain. Not sure if there is a big difference, but I am under the impression that narrower waist makes carving/turning easier. What do you recommend? Thanks.
Aiden
Or if you have any other recommendations, I would love to hear.
Hi Aiden
Thanks for your message.
For your specs, I would go for the 151 Women’s version. IMO, it’s a better width for your boot size. And since 151 is, IMO, already at the higher end in terms of length, then going 152 with a wider width would make the board quite big overall for your specs, IMO. Having that narrower width helps to make initiating turns easier. You have more leverage on the edges which makes it physically easier to turn. And with 7.5s there should be zero issue with it being too narrow, IMO.
Assuming an intermediate level, this board should suit you well, or anything on this list. 12 times is quite fast to get to intermediate, but some people do progress faster than others. Some other options to consider (but I think the PT2 should be fine for you, assuming an intermediate level).
>>Top 10 Intermediate Snowboards
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi,
Thanks for all the snowboard reviews you post! I’ve been reading through them for the past couple of weeks. They’ve been very insightful. Trying to find a new snowboard for my husband and have narrowed down to a handful of boards – TRS, T.Rice Pro, Prototype2, Capital Outerspace Living, and Yes Greats.
Hoping you could help me consider the specs and style of his riding for the optimal board. He rides an old Rome Reverb Rocker 155W, 1200 effective edge, with a waist width of 261 – loves buttering, trees, riding switch, and powder. I thought I could just match the specs with one of the boards above but after reading reviews regarding powder and true twins…I’m less confident of my process. Any advice regarding his style and current board specs with the list?
Thanks so much!
Hi Jill
Thanks for your message.
You can ride all of these boards in powder. Just that they’re not going to be ideal – a bit more hard work keeping the nose afloat, especially in deep powder. But he would be having the same thing with his Reverb Rocker currently. If he likes to still ride switch even in powder, then something like this works, because a board that’s very good in powder in one direction is usually really bad in the other direction. So if that’s the case, then I would still look at something all-mountain-freestyle. The Salomon Assassin is another option, not on this list, that would do a great job riding powder in both directions.
However, if you’re looking to get something that’s better in powder, but still versatile, then you could check out the following instead:
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
If you want a more accurate sizing recommendation, I would be happy to give my opinion. Would just need his height, weight & boot size. But if you’re looking to just match to that, then the:
Greats: 156 (or even 154)
PT2: 155X
TRS: 157MW (but this is less of a match, being longer and with less effective edge)
T Rice Pro: 157W (more effective edge but still longer)
OSL: 155W (but considerably less effective edge)
Salomon Assassin: 158W (effective edge good, but longer)
Based on that the PT2 and Greats are the best specs match. But it would be more accurate to have your husbands actual specs.
Hope this helps
Thanks for your quick reply! This does help but now more choices ha. He’s 5’10” 155lbs, and size 10 boot. Forgot to mention he often hits natural jumps for 180s and such.
I read some reviews on the T.Rice Pro and was worried it’d be too stiff and not nimble in the trees while the TRS has an extruded base. I really liked the T.Rice graphic but I’m trying not to pick based on that. He’s mentioned that the Rome feels too loose underfoot but that just could be the rocker hybrid? So not opposed to changing up the shape or more effective edge…I’m not sure which combats that better…
Hi Jill
Thanks for the extra info.
Yeah, I’d say sticking to around 155 is a good bet, given his specs, how you describe his style and that he is used to that size. Width-wise, with 10s he shouldn’t need a wide board for most boards around that length, depending on the particular board and depending on the brand of boots (some are more low profile than others). Unless he specifically likes wide boards for some reason, I would try to get him on a regular width. So, in that case:
Greats: 154 (it’s a wider board this one anyway, so going 154 and a little wider would be a good size, IMO)
PT2: 155X (I’d keep this one at 155X – the 154 might be borderline too narrow, depending, and the 157 a little longer than ideal, IMO, the 155 about the same width at inserts as the Greats 154 – and the same effective edge)
TRS: 157 (could go 154 too but that would be dropping a little effective edge. 157 overall a little longer than ideal – especially since he likes riding trees and doing 180s)
T Rice Pro: 155
OSL: 156
Assassin: 156
I didn’t find the T Rice too quick from edge-to-edge, so not that nimble for trees, so that’s certainly something to consider. The TRS doesn’t really have a size that I think would be ideal, so if the extruded base is an issue, then that’s another reason to cross that one off.
That looseness is most likely down to having rocker between the feet on the Rome Reverb Rocker. More effective edge can certainly add stability, especially at speed, but for his specs, I would say that there’s plenty of effective edge there. So trying something hybrid camber, might be the way to go, if he’s finding that loose feeling. Preferably without loosing too much, if any, effective edge. If you wanted to do that, then the PT2, T Rice Pro, TRS are all hybrid rockers, so that would cross them off. The OSL is probably dropping too much effective edge. So the Greats 154 and Assassin 156 would be your best bets, if you did want to switch up the profile. And would offer a more stable rather than looser feel.
Hope this gives you more to go off
This does! Thank you so much!!
You’re very welcome Jill
Hey Nate,
Thanks for all of the in depth reviews and rankings. I’m 6 foot, 200 pounds, and wear size 11 boot. I think I’m teetering on being an advanced rider for my style. I currently ride a Burton Skeleton key and enjoy chasing powder and going through the trees. I typically hit as many natural jumps (smaller ones) as I can find. The skeleton key is great, but I’m looking to add a second board for non powder days.
The main reason for the second board is learning to ride switch. I’d still like to hit jumps and play around on the groomers as well. Carving would be a bonus for the board, but not a determining factor. I’m willing to take a beating figuring out switch in order to not outgrow the board in a year. It sounds like all mountain freestyle may be the right category since powder ability isn’t really a factor.
Any suggestions from your list?
Thanks!
Hi John
Thanks for your message.
I absolutely agree, that going all-mountain-freestyle is a good choice for what you’re describing, and would be a good compliment to your Skeleton Key too.
Which one you go for is a harder question. Anything on this list would be a good choice, IMO. But since you have your powder board and aren’t likely to be taken this one into powder at all (if I have that right?), then maybe one of the Greats, PT2 or TRS would be your best bet – and they’re the better carvers in the list too. I really like asym boards for riding switch, so that would narrow it down to Greats and PT2 – but really anything on this list is great for riding switch.
Finding a good size might also be a narrowing down factor. What size is your Skeleton Key? I have your specs, but also getting an idea of what you currently have will help to decide the best size for your second board.
Hope this helps
Thanks Nate! Burton was only making the 154 and 158 the year I got mine, so I’m on the 158.
Current boots are wearing out too. I was thinking about getting the ride trident or insanos to pair with the boards. Would those work with the skeleton key and an all mountain freestyle board?
Hi John
Thanks for the extra info.
I would say, size-wise, the following:
OSL: 160 (assuming you ride with +15/-15 angles on this board, then I think you’ll get away with this, though pushing it if you’re looking to really rail your carves. The 159W would work too. Potentially getting a little too wide though.
TRS: 159MW (the difference between waist and width at inserts on the TRS isn’t a lot, so this is narrower than it sounds – but would work well for 11s, IMO)
PT2: 158X (on the wider side, but still suitable for 11s, IMO)
Rider’s Choice: 158W (like the TRS isn’t that wide at the inserts compared to waist, but still wider than the TRS & PT2 at inserts, I would say – so getting a little on the wider side)
Greats: 156 – you could also go 159, but it would be the widest of all of them here in the 159. Would still work, but going 156 would give you a nice little agile ride. And there is still a good bit of effective edge on the 156. More so than the 159MW TRS, 160 OSL & 158W Rider’s choice. A little less than the PT2 158W. So whilst the overall length is shorter, you’re still getting that effective edge there.
So, sizing-wise, I would be weighing up the 159MW TRS, 158W PT2, and the 156 Greats (which is what I was leaning to before before sizing, so that didn’t really help! 😉 )
Personally I would go softer in terms of boots for both one of these and the Skeleton Key, to better match the flex. I would be looking at something around 6/10 or 7/10 in flex. I would rate the Trident 8/10 flex and the Insanos 9/10 flex. Some people do like to go quite stiff with their boots vs the board and/or bindings, so those are an option, if that’s what you prefer, but personally I would go softer for those boards.
If you did decide to go a little softer, check out the following for some options:
>>My Top All Mountain (medium-stiff flex) Snowboard Boots
Hope this helps
Thanks again Nate. I think I’ll be choosing between the PT2 and Greats.
Looked through the medium stiff boots. I have a wider foot so I’d really like to try on some Adidas, but have no idea where to find them in store (in the Denver area). Do you just have to order online and hope for the best with Adidas?
Hi John
They do have Adidas in stores – but not sure about the Denver area. If you can’t find them in store, and still want to try them, you could order online and try them on – and send them back if they don’t fit well. A lot of online stores will have a policy to let you do that, but make sure the store you order from does allow this, before you order – if this is something you were happy to do. Can be a pain to do, if you don’t get it right first time, though. Also check out the following, for other brands that might work well with a wider foot.
Sizing Snowboard Boots: The Different Brands
Hi Nate,
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw how thorough and many are your replies :-O. … so I figured I’ll ask you too :-).
I’ve been riding for 15 years or so, but not that much and also usually not some big mountains. Mainly just cruising in various conditions, including icy parts, but I also like to fool around a bit, jump and somewhat jib (what else to do on a small slopes…). I outgrown my old set, which is very soft and probably even too long for me a long ago and finally decided to get something to step up my riding.
I think I narrowed the selection down to three boards: Lib Tech TRS HP, Never Summer PT2 and Jones Mountain twin which has attractive price tag and seems to fit in the category. Mainly I am interested in carving and edge hold, but as I wrote I am looking for an all rounder. I am bit worried about the duck stance with PT2, but I think I could go with a bit of a asymmetrical stance. What would be your suggestion?
I am also wondering about the size. I am relatively slim, so my height/weight ratio doesn’t exactly match the size charts… I am 182cm tall and weight 72kg. The shoes are 42-43 so I think normal width should be just fine right?
Thank you very much, really appreciate your efforts here!
Tomas
Hi Tomas
Please see your comment on the Jones Mountain Twin review for my reply.
Yo Nate!
I am debating on getting a new board and need some assistance. I have a Proto CT 152 right now (which I really like) with Rome Arsenal bindings and boot size 10.5 US. I love to board in any terrain and would consider myself on the lower end of a advanced level 6 rider. I’m 5’10” 160, so I’m thinking about moving up to either a 156 or a 157. The boards I have in mind are a Capita DOA, PT2, Lib Tech TRS, and Lib Tech Ejack Knife. Should I be worried about moving to a stiffer board? How will that effect my riding? I’m also open to any other suggestions you might have for me.
Thanks Nate!
Hi Trip
Thanks for your message.
I never rode the Proto CT but based on what I know of it, I don’t think the DOA, PT2 or TRS (have never found it as stiff as it’s rated) would be much stiffer. That said, if you went for one of those in a 156 or 157, then they would likely feel stiffer. The E-Jack Knife would certainly feel stiffer. The E Jack Knife is what I would consider a freeride board, so it’s quite different to the others you’ve mentioned, IMO. It’s relatively versatile for a freeride board, so it could still be suitable but it would take more to get used to coming from your current board.
Having a stiffer feeling board will increase your stability at speed and float in powder (as will having a longer board). It’s also better IMO (both the stiffness and length) for big wide carves too.
Going stiffer (and going longer) typically means less maneuverability at slower speeds and not as suitable for freestyle things, IMO. Though big jumps is the exception, where extra stiffness is good to have.
The TRS and PT2 will be most similar to your current ride – though they are both a bit different to each other and to the Proto CT. But one major difference is that they are more camber dominant than the Proto CT is. And being longer that would make a noticeable difference to. There would be some getting used to any one of those options, but the PT2 would likely be the least amount of change (essentially being an evolution of the Proto CT). Next would be the TRS, then the DOA, then the Jack Knife. So, I don’t know if that helps depending on if you’re looking for something really different, or want something that’s a little similar.
If you were going to keep the Proto CT and still ride it sometimes, e.g. for park sessions. Then the E-Jack Knife becomes a more appealing option. It won’t be great in the park but for everything else it would work well. Note that this is also the most aggressive option, not just in terms of flex but also in terms of camber profile. So, it’s going to feel a lot more aggressive.
But the others would still be different enough to the Proto CT, especially in the 156, 157 size, that you could certainly have a 2 board quiver with one of those and the CT.
Hope this gives you more info to go off
I’m an all mountain freestyler but I really like the Capita DOA. Only problem with that is I really want to progress on rails rather than sending it so I’ve been looking at more playful 3BT boards. Any advice? I’m 6’2 210lbs with a s12 boot
Hi Ryan
Thanks for your message.
I wouldn’t say the DOA is terrible on rails, but it’s not that great either. If you’re looking for something more rail friendly, I would check out the following list:
>>My Top 10 Men’s Freestyle Snowboards
Though those won’t as all-mountain friendly as those on this list.
Most of the boards from this list (all-mountain-freestyle) I found to be a little better than the DOA for jibs (bar the Proto Type Two) but if you’re looking for something even more suitable, then something from the list above or you could look at some jib specialist type boards (which is a category I don’t test) but they tend to be pretty weak outside of jibbing a lot of the time.
I haven’t tested any 3BT boards unfortunately, so I can’t really say much there.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
Thanks for the reviews, they do help a lot, but I am still not sure what board should I pick. I am thinking on buying a TRS 159cm board, I am 6’1 tall and 165 lbs, and I would call myself from upper-intermediate to advanced rider (2 previous seasons I was riding rossignol district, but lately the board seems to me as a very slow one). I am not fan of parks as well as powder, but I do like when my board is speedy and playful. I thought that TRS would be a good choice, but read some comments that on soft snow and slower speed its too grippy, could you comment on that? Also I am not sure with which bindings should I go for this board, either Union Strata or Falcor, could you recommend one of them or list pros and cons which I get with one binding that I do not get with another. If you have any other boards that you would recommend, I would appreciate it. And what stiffness of a boot would you recommend for me?
Thanks in advance!
Hi Valentyn
Thanks for your message.
As per my reply on the TRS review, I didn’t personally find the TRS too grippy in softer snow.
Now that I know your boot size, I would say that the 157MW would be your best size. For the Rider’s Choice, as I mentioned in my other comment. The 157.5 might be too narrow I suspect for 11s (it’s 255mm at the waist but at the inserts it’s still only 260mm – so there’s not much difference between waist and inserts). The 158W is probably getting a bit too wide though, so that might cross that board off. For the TRS, the 157MW would be a great width (IMO) and that’s the length I would go with for you over the 159MW. You could certainly ride the 159MW, but for this board I would go 157MW – though personal preference does come into it – so if you know you prefer that length, then it’s certainly an option too.
In terms of bindings, I would go Strata for the TRS, just because I feel it’s the better flex-match. Again, both bindings would certainly work on that board, so neither would be a bad choice, but I would go with Strata over the Falcor, for this particular board.
Hope this helps
Hello Nate,
First of all thanks for your reviews they make picking the board much easier task for me. But I am still not sure about which should I get. Could you help me with picking the board? I am 185 and 6’1 tall and 11 US boot size. Not fan of parks or powder, but I do like when the board is playfull and speedy + I do like to land jumps . I am thinking on buying 159W trs, but have few concerns. Will the magne-traction be ok if I will decide to cruise and will magne-traction be ok on soft snow days?(some people say it is just too grippy to enjoy) If you have any other boards to offer I would like to hear about them. Thanks in advance!
Hi Nate,
Thank you for great reviews, so great that they confused me and made me think hard 🙂
I was looking for a board and was about to choose Never Summer Proto Type Two which sounded exactly like what I wanted from the board – playful, good for flat tricks, switch friendly and at the same time pretty good for carving, stable at high speed, on the cat tracks and in moguls.
The thing is that recently I came across YES Greats 2019 and review say it’s an amazing board. It basically seems like NS PT2 and YES Greats are equally good in all the aspects that important for me, but I really confused as for how two boards with different profiles: Hybrid Rocker in NS PT2 vs Hybrid Camber in YES Greats can perform the same in all mentioned aspects.
What difference will I feel if riding these two boards?
Appreciate your time,
–Andrey
Hi Andrey
Thanks for your message.
Whilst the PT2 & the Greats are both different boards, they’re ultimately good at the same kinds of riding. And if you’re looking for an asym for what you’re describing then these two plus the GNU Rider’s Choice are the best that I’ve ridden.
The main thing I would say between the 2 in terms of feel is that the Proto Type Two has an ever so slightly loose feel to it, whereas the Greats is a solidly stable feel. If you think of a scale of 1-5, with 1 being the loosest and 5 being a completely locked in feel, and a 3 being “stable” then the Greats would be a 3. It’s stable but not locked in. The PT2 would be a 2.5. It’s certainly not an overly loose feeling board, IMO, but it’s got that subtle bit of looseness when you want it. But once you get up on an edge and rail a carve on it, the camber is the dominant feel in that board.
A couple of things that aren’t in the ratings either – like buttering, the Greats is a board that’s just a little easier to butter than the PT2. The Greats is also better in icy conditions. The PT2 is not bad but the Greats just that little bit better.
Also the Greats is a wider board. This is one of the reasons I’ve given the Greats a slightly better score for jumps. Just because it has that wider landing platform.
Also both boards have a different feel in terms of their turn radius. I enjoyed both equally on a carve, but that’s not to say that they were the same on a carve. They both have their own distinct feel.
So yeah, whilst their similar in terms of performance, they are different feeling boards. But they’re both suited to similar types of riding, IMO.
Hope this makes sense
Thank you, Nate. It helped a lot. As long as my role model is Ryan Knapton it makes more sense to go with YES as more traditional profile option.
Thanks for making my buying decision!
You’re very welcome Andrey. Hope you have a great season!
Hi Nate. Nice website, lot’s of info :). I’m currently searching for a new board. I have a ride agenda 2016 in which I learn to snowboard and now I would say I’m an Intermediate Level 5. I looking for something a little bit more stiff, with more pop and more stable at high speed but also playfull, in which I can pratice ridding switched, small jumps, butters.
I normally try to ride at least a week per year and last year I got like 15 days in total in the snow. I spend most of the time in groomers, not really looking for pow or park bords.
Based on my search and reviews, my last for the next board resumes to:
– Capita DOA
– Yes Typo
– Salomon assassin.
Which one do you recommend? Any other option in mind?
About the size of the board, my bot size is 9.5 US, 78kg, 187 cm. Which should be the right size for me?
Thanks in advance and keep up the good work.
BR!
Hi André
Thanks for the message.
I think both the Typo and Assassin would work well for you. The DOA is a little more aggressive and given that you want to keep things playful, I think the Typo and Assassin would be better options.
Size-wise, in general, I would say to look at a length range of around 158-160. And width wise, around 250mm at the waist minimum, depending on binding angles. If you ride with a duck stance or similar (e.g. +15/-15 – something with a reasonable angle on the back foot) then you could go narrower than that too. Definitely don’t go wide with 9.5s.
So for the boards mentioned, the best sizes for you, IMO, would be:
~ Typo: 158
~ Assassin: 159
They would be the best combination of width/length, IMO.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate, so I weight 220lbs wear size 11.5 boots, I ride 12 -12, will the yes greats be a good board for me?
Hello Nate!
I do spend so much time on your site! I love it. All the content is so valuable and well explained. The questions and the answers provided make this site a real wonderful data knowledge.
However I try to find my lover board… but I cannot decide yet which one will make my heart bumping harder.
I ‘m riding for now more than10 years, 1 week each year in Alpes and always rent boards without knowing what I got really under my feet! Now, I really want to get mine!
Based on description, I’m right on the border between intermediate and advanced. I’m 186cm (6,1), 78kg (172), 11 foot size. I spend my time on groomers but i have the opportunity I go outside to jump, rotate (based on my level…), enjoy puff, crash :). I also go to park to perform small medium jumps. I also love carving, and try to be natural in switch.
Last year I had a full rocker, that was fun, but I clearly feel unstable on it when I speedup. So I think a hybrid rocker or camber will better suit me. I think a medium flex will be ok for all mountain (No more 5/10). So here the boards I identified:
– Bataleon evil Twin. 159w. Benefits is the twin shape, camber and the TBT for catchfree. I don’t know your point of view about that board, I afraid to be trapped by the marketing. But look great on the paper.
-NEVER summer prototype 2. 158x size? Its hybrid rocker and it’s asymmetrical shape attack me. A lot of review point its quality. However purchase that board in France seems not be easy.
– Yes The Greats. But no wide size… So with my 11 … could be problematic and I have Nitro boots (Anthem).
What is your point of view? Do you have advice or other proposal?
Thanks a lot!
Gabriel
Hi Gabriel
Thanks for your message.
I don’t currently demo Bataleon boards, so I can’t give your any first hand experience with that board. But from what I hear it’s more of a park board and wouldn’t be as good as the other 2 outside of the park. But again, I couldn’t say for sure having never ridden it myself.
The other 2 would be great options, IMO, based on what you’re describing.
The YES Greats 2019 model is actually wider now. They’ve incorporated the Mid-Bite on it that they use with their Standard and Ghost boards. So, as long as you go for the 2019 model it’s definitely suitable, IMO.
In terms of size, for this type of board, and for your specs and ability, I’d say anything around 157-159 would be a good length for you.
For width, I would say anything between 254mm at the waist and 264mm at the waist. This is assuming a US11 Boot Size and also assumiung +15/-15 binding angles. These angles are recommended for the Proto Type Two and Greats, since they are assymetrical.
So for the Proto Type Two, I agree that the 158X is your best size.
For the YES Greats, the 159 would be your best bet but you could also ride the 156, if you felt you wanted to go shorter. But this is only if you get the 2019 model.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
Great site! Thanks for providing all the great info!
I’m looking at getting a new board. Am 5’10”, 180lbs & size 9 boot. We tend to ride a lot of piste but love hitting the park, boxes, rails, natural hits, etc as well. Like a bit of off piste when we get the chance as well.
At the moment I’m sold on the NS PT2 from reading all of the reviews across the web and on your site and am thinking of going for a 157 based on my stats.
Would you say this board is suitable? I’d say I’m an intermediate rider.
What bindings would you pair up with this board as well?
Appreciate any help you can give!
Hi Ian
Thanks for your message.
It sounds like an all-mountain-freestyle board is a good option for what you’re describing – and the PT2 is one of the best, IMO (as you can tell from this post!).
So yeah, I think it would definitely be suitable for you. And the 157 would be the best size as well, IMO. I wouldn’t go any longer than that for this board for you – and the 154 is getting too small, IMO. So, yeah the 157 would be best, I would say.
In terms of bindings, I would suggest something from the following list:
>>Top 5 All Mountain Bindings
Some other options outside that list are:
~ Burton Malavita
~ Union Strata (will be new for 2019 if you’re willing to wait for 2019 models to come out)
Hope this helps
Awesome, thanks for the re-assurance Nate.
I’ll take a look at the bindings now.
Thanks for making buying a snowboard much easier!
You’re very welcome Ian. Thanks for using the website!
Great guide buddy! Love your site!
J
Hi Jack
Thanks for your comments – appreciate it!
I’m strongly considering the Proto Type Two but question which size is right as I’m unsure of my real preference. I am 6 ft. 215 lbs with a size 12 boot. What would be the big differences in ride between the 161X and the 164X. Would the 161X be more butterable for my frame than the 164X? My wife is learning how to snowboard, so I am certainly all over the mountain when not with her but definitely looking to play around more with switch and butters and natural features when tagging along with her during her progression.
Hi Matt
Thanks for your message.
For you, I would go for 161X for this board. I would put you on around a 163, 164 all-mountain size, but for this board you can size down a bit, IMO. And given that you want to be able to ride it slow and play around with it a bit, and work on your butters, then I think the 161X will be better for that. Being shorter will be more agile at slower speeds – and yeah easier to butter too. And it’s certainly not overly short for you, IMO – so should also handle when you’re exploring the rest of the mountain too. Both sizes would work for you, but I would be leaning towards the 161X.
Hope this helps
Thanks Nate, sounds about what I was leaning toward in my head, thanks for being so receptive to questions and bouncing knowledge off.
You’re very welcome Matt. Hope you enjoy your new deck and the rest of the season!
Hi Nate,
You helped me recently pick out a board for myself (Rossi Frenemy, thanks for all the advice!) and now I’m looking for some help for my boyfriend’s new board. He’s an intermediate (bordering on advanced) level rider who’s interested in trying out the park, and has been riding switch quite frequently. He’s look for something he can take to learn some basics at the park, but still use to jet around. We also board in icy conditions, so something that can handle that would be great.
He’s 5’9 160-165lbs, currently has ThirtyTwo lashed boots size 10.5 from 2010. He’s looking for either hybrid or traditional camber board, and a true twin for riding switch. What would you recommend for him?
He’s very interested in Rome boards – in particular the factory rocker, but open to suggestions. He’s also unsure if he would need a wide board given his boot size.
Thanks in advance!
Katie
Hi Katie
Thanks for your message.
Definitely sounds like all-mountain-freestyle is the way to go for him, based no what you’re describing.
In terms of length, I would say something around a 155-157 for an all-mountain freestyle board for his specs.
In terms of width, with 10.5s it’s right on the cuff. It mostly comes down to binding angles. If he rides something like a +15/-15 (i.e. with a good angle on the back binding) then something as narrow as 250mm at the waist is doable. 252mm and up to be on the safe side. But if he rides with a really straight back foot (i.e. 0-3 degrees) then a minimum of 258mm is recommended, in which case he’d need to go wide.
I don’t currently test Rome boards, but based on the specs, it looks like it would be a suitable option. I can’t really comment on how good it is in icy conditions, but based on other reviews and comments it sounds like Rome boards are pretty good in hard/icy conditions. Maybe not the best, but up there.
The best option in hard/icy conditions from this list is the GNU Rider’s Choice, IMO – but the Proto Type Two, YES Greats and the Salomon Assassin Pro (or Salomon Assassin which might be a better option, just that it’s probably a little easier to get started in the park with than the Assassin Pro) are also pretty good – as good as the Rome Factory Rocker – as far as I can tell.
The Lib Tech TRS and the Niche Aether are also options in terms of being very good in icy conditions (up there with the Rider’s Choice, IMO).
Hope this helps
Oh yeah and how’s the Frenemy going for you?
Hey man, thanks for a great site. Really awesome!
I’m looking to replace my 10yo traditional camber board (nitro volume 156). I think im looking for freestyle allmountain, that still has great powder float.
What I do most is trying to get offpist when ever possible, in and out of trees and jumping in and out of the pist – but only if snow is good. Otherwise doing butters, ollies, spins on the groomers.
I’m confident in my riding skills, I’m 65kg and boot size 9. Could you help point me in a direction?
Thanks for any help man!
Hi Mark
Thanks for your message.
Based on what you’re describing, I think you’re on the right track looking at an all-mountain-freestyle board. The biggest downside, is that they aren’t generally that great for riding powder – but they definitely do the job and if you’re not riding big mountain type stuff, then they work, you’ve just usually need to put a bit more effort in keeping the tip and tail lifted.
But if you’re riding switch in powder, then sometimes an all-mountain-freestyle can be better – because things like freeride boards are made for riding powder in one direction – so riding switch in powder is usually harder on something like that than it would be on a twin – even if that twin isn’t very good at riding pow in one direction, if that makes sense.
I found the Outerspace Living to have a longer tip and tail compared to a lot of other all-mountain-freestyle boards* (which I think is one reason why Capita call it a freestyle/freeride blend). So I found it a great board for riding powder in both directions. Still not going to be like a setback tapered freeride board in your main direction, but great for going both ways in pow. I also found the Rider’s Choice a little better in powder than others.
* – e.g. the Proto Type Two and YES Greats have very blunted tip and tail – so that along with being centered and true twin, doesn’t make them great for powder).
But in saying that, you can definitely still ride something like the PT2 and Greats in powder, just a bit harder work in deeper pow – and they’d definitely work well for everything else you’re describing. In terms of size, if you can let me know your height as well and I can give you my opinion on what sizes would work best.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the quick response!
I think you are right, a freestyle board that is slightly geared toward powder is a good choice. How would you compare the two, Outerspace Living vs. Riders Choice?
I’m 175-177 cm
Hi Mark
I would say that the Outerspace Living is more of a stable feel and the Rider’s Choice more of a looser feel, underfoot. So, what you like the sound of more in that respect might be a more deciding factor. Also, I’d say that the Outerspace Living is a little better at speed and for carving.
In terms of size, I would say something around 154 to 156 would be a good range to look at for you. So for the Rider’s Choice I’d say 154.5 and for the Outerspace Living 154 or 156. Since you’re used to a 156, then maybe leaning that way – also, given that you’re used to a full camber 156, the OSL at 156 is already going to feel a little smaller, most likely. Otherwise, I’d probably be leaning towards the 154 for your specs.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the quick response!
I’m not doing that much switch, mostly when landing or taking off small jumps. Maybe I should look more into general all-mountain boards and find one that is flexible enough for butters/spins? I’m in love with the graphics on the Jones Mountain Twins, but it sounds like it is not a very flexible board 🙁
The capita Outerspace Living does seems like a very good call though, went through a few reviews of it! Everybody seems to love it and says it tons of fun. Regarding size, 65kg without gear, 177cm height, size 42 boots (9-9,5 US) – Which size would you suggest?
Thanks again, it is super helpfull!
Hi Mark
You’re very welcome.
I’d say 154-156 for you generally, so that gives you the option of the 154 and 156 in the OSL. Since you’re used to a full cambered 156, I would be leaning towards the 156 (as per my other response). Otherwise I would be leaning towards 154. Both sizes would work though.
The Mountain Twin is what I would rate as a 6/10 flex overall. It’s rated as a 7/10 but it didn’t feel that stiff to me. I think where it is a little stiffer is between the feet, but tip and tail aren’t that stiff so can still butter on it.
But if you’re looking for some softer all-mountain options you could look at the Never Summer Snowtrooper, YES Typo and Burton Process Flying V.
hi nate,
first of all I have to apologize for my English. Im from Germany so not a native speaker.
So, im in the mountains for maybe overall 10 days a year, mostly in the Austrian alps.
my actual board is now more than 10 years old, so its time for something new.
I really like the never summer from what you say about it. But does it fit to my riding style?
most of the time Im riding the regular piste, carving, doing little jumps and tricks. im not that much into parks or backcountry.
also, for what I found, the never summer has in the widest version a 254mm waist width but my shoe has size US 12. I ride a -15°/+15° ankle. Do you think this will fit??
Dankeschön
Will appreciate any help.
Greetings from Germany
Hi Nick
It sounds like the Proto Type Two would be ideal for what you’re describing. Certainly something all-mountain-freestyle would suit you very well.
The 254mm waist width will be too narrow for you but the Proto Type Two also comes in wide sizes – it’s called the Proto Type Two X. The “X” is Never Summer’s way of saying “wide”. Often the wide sizes are in a different product page for Never Summer boards, which is probably why you didn’t see the wide sizes. The following wide sizes are available for the PT2:
153X (258mm waist)
155X (261mm waist)
158X (263mm waist)
161X (265mm waist)
164X (267mm waist)
In terms of waist width, considering your have +15/-15 angles, you should fit on any of those except for the 153X.
Which length you go with depends on your height, weight, ability level and your personal preference. Generally speaking, it’s a good idea, in my opinion, to size down a little bit from what you’re used to with this board – just because it has a large effective edge, relative to the overall length. If you’d like a length recommendation I would be happy to provide one, if you can tell me your height, weight, ability level, and the length you usually ride.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate, ever since hiring a Proto HD I’m sold on NS! That’s a not a rock hard rule but I do like the idea. I’m mid 50’s and have been riding for 20yrs or so. I’m intermediate to advanced and pretty much focus on 3 things given the opportunity – carving groomers, small natural hits & flicking through tight tree lines. The park is used for a short-cut to somewhere else, switch is a temporary situation until I’m back going forwards! Old knees mean I appreciate flex and anything that smooths out choppy conditions.
I’m 5ft 7 and 160lbs and usually hire 154cm. My own board is a vintage Option SuperCap but mostly on hire boards.
I was looking at getting a Proto Type 2 or a Snowtrooper. The Snowtrooper looks good but based on carving in particular + playfulness the T2 appears the best for me. You agree?
Thoughts much appreciated and indeed if you think I’m missing out by not looking at other NS boards then please shout.
Thanks,
Hi Pete
I think you’re on the right track looking at Proto Type 2 and Snowtrooper. Those are your two best options with Never Summer, IMO, based on what you’re describing.
Snowtrooper is what I would call an all-mountain board and has a bit of a setback, but it’s still something you can ride switch – and if you only ever go into switch quickly, definitely fine in that respect.
The Snowtrooper is softer flexing and has a more easy going camber profile – more subtle camber and more rocker in there. The Proto Type Two has a more aggressive camber profile (more camber and less rocker) and is a little stiffer – but still just medium flexing so definitely not overly stiff.
The Snowtrooper is a little easier going and a more casual ride, I would say, but the Proto Type Two has a more dynamic feel – it’s a little snappier and better on carve and at speed. It’s a little more responsive too – a little quicker edge-to-edge, so it’s got that for the trees too.
The Snowtrooper is a bit better in powder.
So, overall, I think the PT2 would be your best bet, but the Snowtrooper would definitely work, especially if you want to go a little softer/more casual – but overall I’d say PT2.
In terms of size, 154cm would be a good size for you, especially if that’s what you’re used to. For an all-mountain size for you, I would say around 156, but for this board it’s definitely a good idea to go a little shorter and shorter also feels more playful. And the fact that you’re used to 154. I’d say the 157 would definitely be too long for you for this board. I would even go 152 before 157 for you for this board (assuming it would be wide enough for your boots) but I think 154 would be the best bet.
For the Snowtrooper, I’d still say 154 but in that case you could get away with the 156, but I wouldn’t go to 152 for that board.
Also, if you’re not sure width-wise, I can let you know my opinion on widths, if you can let me know your boot size.
Hope this helps
I’m US size 9, Nate
Hi Pete
Thanks for the extra info. Both the 152 (248mm waist width) and the 154 (250mm waist-width) would work well with size 9s, so that’s all good there.
High praise for the Capita Outerspace living – on the beginner list and rated highly for freestyle/all mountain. Ive seen good reviews for this board last year as well. Ive got a new Rome Factory Rocker (last years – it was a bargain) this is a great all round board for buggering about on, much better than my old stiff Ride Havoc which is now over 10 years old and practically vintage. I like my Rome board a lot and look forward to taking it on holiday in the spring.
Hi D
Thanks for your input and comments on the Rome Factory Rocker.
Yeah the Outerspace Living was one of the big surprises for me this year (the first time I had demoed it), especially given the price. It’s one of those boards that’s easy enough to ride but also has good performance. It’s not something I would say is for a complete beginner, but for a high end beginner or an athletic or big guy beginner it’s a good beginner choice, in addition to being a great little all-mountain-freestyle ride.
Hope you have an awesome season on your Factory Rocker!
Hi Nate,
I need advice about board.I`m looking for All Mountain Freestyle board. I love hammering the whole mountain,carving,jumps,butters and powder when I can.My size is 178cm,76kg and boots size 44 EU or 10US.What you suggest,and what size of that bords will fit best for me.Thanks in advance and best regards!
I`m interest for : Salomon Assassin 2017
Capita Outerspace Living
Capita Doa
Hi Toni
Thanks for our message.
In terms of length first of all. I would say that a good all-mountain size for you would be roughly 159. But I personally like to take off a couple of centimeters for an all-mountain-freestyle board. So something like 156, 157 would be a good size for you I think. But it also depends on what you’re used to riding and preference. So if you can let me know what size you usually ride and I can see if we need to adjust for that.
So for the boards you’ve mentioned that would put you on:
~ Salamon Assassin 2017: 155 or 158 – it depends on what you currently ride as to which would be the best – also it depends on what you put more emphasis on – if you’re willing to sacrifice a little in terms of butters, park etc, and want more performance for carving, speed and in powder, then the 158. If other way around or if you’re used to a shorter board, then the 155 might be more suitable.
~ Capita Outerspace Living: 156 (but again as with the above, you could also consider 158)
~ Capita DOA: 156 (I would stick to 156 for this board – it’s quite aggressive.
The DOA would be the most aggressive of the 3, so if that’s something you like the sound of you could go in that direction. If you’re looking for something more playful than aggressive – then the other two would be better bets – they’re not like super playful or anything (can still put in a good carve) but just not as aggressive as the DOA.
You can check out my full reviews on each board at the link below for more info if you’d like:
>>Capita DOA
>>Capita Outerspace Living
>>Salomon Assassin
Hope this helps
Hi,
I’m looking to get my husband a snowboard for Christmas. We typically spend our time in Lake Tahoe snowboarding. He’s 6’, 210 lbs and wears a size 10.5-11 shoes. We are pretty intermediate riders and don’t do too much crazy stuff, just like riding down the mountain. What would be a good board to get him that’s not crazy expensive?
Hi Christie
Thanks for your message – and what an awesome gift!
In terms of length, something around 161 to 162 for those specs, the style of riding your describing and that ability level.
In terms of width, assuming he gets into 10.5 boots, then going for something around 258mm would be the safest bet – but depending on his binding angles, could go narrower – down to around 252mm (which would open up more regular width options) if he rides something like a +15/-15. If he rides with a straighter back foot (like 0 degrees, 3 degrees or something like that), then it’s safer to go a little wider.
Based on what you describe re style/ability, I think something all-mountain would be a good way to go, in which case check out the link below:
>>My Top 10 All Mountain Snowboards
In terms of price, the Mountain Twin, Rossignol One, Slash Brainstorm, Burton Process Flying V (I wouldn’t go for the Process Camber, just because it’s probably a bit too aggressive of a feel for what you’re describing), YES Typo and Ride Wild Life are all under $500, with the Brainstorm, Typo, and Wild Life being the least expensive. If you wanted to go a little cheaper again, then the YES Libre (similar to the YES Typo) is cheaper again ($369) but still a good option. The Never Summer Snowtrooper would also be a good option for your husband, IMO, but it’s a little more expensive ($519).
Of course if you can find a past season’s model on any of these, then they would be cheaper again (and most models don’t change too much in just one season – but sometimes they do).
If you can find out your husbands binding angles, then I could make a more precise recommendation size-wise on some of these. Otherwise, I would try to go at least 256mm at the waist. But don’t go too wide as that can make a board harder to turn on.
I know this is a lot of info but I hope it makes sense and helps with your decision – if you see a deal on something specfic and want my recommendation, then let me know – and also if you find out his binding angles.
Oh yeah – and all-mountain-freestyle (like the boards on this list) are also definitely options if you’re not likely to be going off-groomer too often – I think the Capita Outerspace Living could also work well for your needs (and is really reasonably priced). That would be the most suitable off this list, IMO both in terms of price and in terms of suitability for the style you describe.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate!
Great overviews of some of the boards! I’m looking to get myself a new board for the upcoming season. I’ve been riding the 156cm YES GDOH since 2011 and have absolutely loved it! It really fits my aggressive yet playful riding style. My dilemma is, do I stick with what I know and love (The Greates) or do I try something new and different (Proto Type Two). Most of the time I spend on my board is teaching, usually intermediate and advanced groups, but also sometimes beginners too. So I spend a lot of time on the groomers carving hard, riding switch, and jibbing/buttering, but as soon as I have a day (or half-day) off I B-line it to the powder. Which of the two would you recommend between The Greates and the Proto Type Two?
Really appreciate any advice!
Sam
Hi Sam
Thanks for your message.
I find it really hard to choose between these two. That’s not to say that they feel the same – as they certainly don’t but performance wise they are both amazing decks. Unfortunately I haven’t had the chance to ride these two one after the other, but that would be a great test.
I didn’t ever ride the GDOH, but from what I can see it was a fully rockered board. So, in terms of which will feel more similar to the GDOH, I think both will feel quite different. The Greats will have more similarities, being the same brand and very roughly a continuation of the GDOH – but it’s got a hybrid camber profile (camber between and under the feet and rocker tip to tail), which will feel a lot different. The PT2 on the other hand has rocker between the feet, then camber underfoot and to tip and tail.
Both are asymmetrical (which it looks like the GDOH was too) so you’ll still get that asym ride. It’s really hard to pick one of them.
In terms of powder, they are both ok in powder but not great. But I don’t think either one of them was better or worse than the other – so that’s not really a tie breaker either!
I think the only thing really to think about is – do you like the sound of rocker between the feet and camber tip and tail or camber between the feet and rocker tip and tail.
The other way you could choose is by going for what the best size is. If you wanted to stick to 156, then the Greats – which will also have a similar sidecut and the same waist width as you current board and very similar tip and tail width. But the 157 PT2 is pretty similar size wise – with a shallower sidecut but a slightly wider waist and wider tip and tail. Size-wise that would give slightly more surface area for powder, which is one thing there.
Not sure if this helps with your decision but hopefully it gives you a bit more to go off. But I don’t think you can make a bad call between those two!
Hi Nate,
Absolutely loving the detail and attention you put into your reviews. Your guides are awesome!
I’m 181cm, 85kg and a (US) 10.5 boot.
I love hammering the whole mountain, cutting through trees and hitting any natural humps and jumps (along with whatever powder) I can find. I currently ride a 2014 Salomon Assassin but I am loving the idea of a Never Summer Proto Type Two to try something asymmetrical. I was just wondering what size you would suggest?
Thanks for your time!
Jack
Hi Jack
Thanks for your message.
Based on your specs and for this board, I think the 157 would be a great length for you. And, assuming you use binding angles like +15/-15 or +12/-12 on it, then the waist should be just right too.
I know you are above the “weight recommendations” for the 157, but I think for this board and how you describe your style of riding, the 157 is the better bet. I rode the 157 and have very similar stats (183cm, 83kg, 10 boot) and that was just right. I’d say that the 160 would have felt too long for me. This board has a long effective edge compared to its overall length.
Hope this helps
What’s your opinion on the capita doa for all mountain freestyle? What do people mean when they say it’s really aggressive? I have shoe size us 12 95kg and 6’4 what size board should I get?
Hi Renato
By aggressive, it means that the board likes to ride fast and hard and it’s usually pretty unforgiving of skidded turns. It’s something that you’ve got to be on your game when riding it. But you get the rewards of a fast poppy board that loves to carve and ride fast.
And yeah, definitely an all-mountain-freestyle ride – just that it’s not a playful all-mountain freestyle ride – it’s aggressive. You can check out my review of the DOA and my Top 5 Aggressive All-Mountain Freestyle snowboards list at the links below for more details.
~ Capita DOA Review
~ Top 5 Aggressive All-Mountain-Freestyle Snowboards
In terms of size, for you, for this board, I would say the 161W for sure. I’d potentially even go a little longer, but that’s the longest this board goes. But in saying that, I found this board to be better a little shorter than your normal size, so I think that size would work for you, if this ends up being the board you go with.
Hope this helps.
Hi Nate,
Great reviews, really helpful to us out here!
I’m looking for a new board for this winter but am having trouble deciding what to go for, as it seems are many others.
I’ve got the Greats and Proto T2 on my list, as well as the Space Case, Funslinger and Happy Place.
My riding is about 60 percent switch, buttering, side hits, some park and pipe. In between I like to go fast and lay down some carves. I also want a board that has good pop for ollies, etc. I’d use a different board for any proper powder riding.
Which of these would best for speed and pop but still nice for buttering?
Thanks,
Steve
Hi Steven
From those I’d definitely say either the NS Proto Type Two or YES Greats. They seem to fit what you’re describing really well.
The Space Case is an option too, but you’d lose a little bit in terms of speed and carving. But gain back a little in jibbing. But I think on balance, the Greats or Proto T2 are the better balance of specs for you.
The Funslinger is still a pretty good carver but gets a bit squirelly when picking up good speed and the Happy Place would fall behind the other options in terms of speed and carving. They’d both pick up again for jibbing and maybe a little for butterability (but I found the Greats and Proto pretty good for buttering too) but again, I think the first two options are the best for you.
Hope this helps
Thanks Nate for the quick response.
Awesome advice and site.
I like the Greats for having camber. Does the rocker section of the t2 make it less stable at speed and give it less pop? Or is this what makes it OK for buttering?
I’m currently on a 2012 Burton Process camber and have no trouble buttering this. How would these 2 boards compare for buttering?
Hi Steven
The T2 does have a fair bit of camber – it’s just that the Camber sits in different areas, than with the Greats. The Greats has camber between the feet and under the bindings, and rocker towards tip and tail – whereas the T2 has rocker between the bindings, then camber that starts under the bindings and goes to tip and tail (with a bit of flat transition area before the contact points.
The T2 has Never Summer’s ripsaw camber – which basically means that the camber is both more pronounced and the camber sections are longer than their other boards. This gives it more pop and more stability.
Having said that, I’d say that the T2 is probably on the looser side of stable – but still pretty stable feeling – but that rocker between the feet does give it a slightly looser feel.
The Greats camber profile would probably feel more similar to your current board in terms of the Camber profile – certainly not the same but closer than the T2, IMO.
Both of these boards are easier to butter than the Process Camber, in my experience – so if you have no trouble buttering the Process, then you’ll enjoy buttering either of these boards.
Hope this gives you more to go off. Also check out my reviews of these two boards if you haven’t already, just realized I haven’t linked to their full reviews from the Top 5 post.
>>YES Greats Review
>>Never Summer Proto Type 2 Review
Thanks again. Really useful advice.
Great review on here so thanks for the link.
You’re very welcome Steve. Hope you have an awesome season!
Apologies if I sent my message twice. Not sure how things are published. Haha
Hi Leo
Thanks for your message. Only got it once 🙂
Can you let me know your weight and height. These (especially weight) play a big part in board length – then I can make a more accurate recommendation.
NATE!!!,
First off, I totally dig your site. You offer awesome critique and great advice. Well done man.
To my question now…..i wanted your recommendation on board sizing. I’m looking into getting the Never Summer Proto2 for this upcoming season. Hearing nothing but good things. Boarding 7 plus years…. I would say I’m a confident intermediate-ish rider. Haha. Currently been riding an elder model 157/158cm GNU carbon fiber, with 12in Burton ions, and flow bindings. The smaller rocker board was fun but thinking I want/ need to go bigger. Now I love riding aggressive ie: carving moguls, double blacks, off piste, fresh powder, etc. On that note, I really want to beef up my buttering and kicker skills. What do you suggest for new board size? Width? Also, I was kinda looking into the Brainstorm. Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thanks again Mate.
Respect,
Leo
Hi Nate, or the typo instead of the greats. Are they similar in terms of flex?
Best Alex
Hi Alex
Some say you need a mirror duck (e.g. +15/-15, +12/-12 etc) for asym but I’ve ridden asym boards without a full duck stance and they were fine. I think a +15/-12 would be fine and moving from a +15/-12 to a +15/-15 or +12/-12 wouldn’t be a big shift either. I think either way it would work for you.
But yeah the Typo would be another option – it’s like a slightly more beefed up Basic. It’s got a small setback stance so it’s not entirely centered, which is why i have it as an all-mountain board as opposed to an all-mountain-freestyle board – but it’s definitely bordering on being all-mountain-freestyle.
I’d say the flex of the Typo and the Greats are very similar. YES rates the 2017 Typo as slightly stiffer than the 2017 Greats but I’d say they feel about the same. And they now rate the 2018 Typo the same as the 2018 Greats so I think that’s more in line with reality.
Hi Nate,
I can get a Yes Basic or a Yes the greats for a good price. The greats only 80 bucks above the Basic. I am only riding 2 weeks a year in the alps. I am a intermediate to advance rider. which one would you recommend? Is the greats much stiffer or harder to press for butters…?
Cheers
Alex
Hi Alex
Since you are intermediate + rider, I would go for the Greats personally. The Greats is a little bit stiffer but not hugely. I’d say 4/10 flex for Basic and 5/10 flex for Greats. And I found it nice to butter on. The flex in the tip and tail are softer than between the bindings I think, so that helps with buttering.
It’s an Asym board – which aren’t for everyone but personally I love them. Great for riding switch and for turning/carving in general too. But you should definitely ride centered and with as close to a mirror duck stance as possible (e.g. +15/-15 binding angles). If you prefer binding angles that are quite different on front foot and back foot and prefer a setback stance, then an Asym won’t be ideal – but otherwise it only makes the board better, in my experience.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
Thanks a lot for the fast reply. I am not riding duck stance. I ride + 15/-12.
I never tried asym before. Does it still work with my stance or should I go with the basic instead? Thanks
Hi Nate. I’m curious about the carving and turning ability of the gnu Eco choice and the riders choice. Is there any difference between the two in terms of carving and turning ability or are they the same board just different materials. Also, can they handle a decent carve or will they wash out. Thanks.
Hi Dan
There’s very little difference between the Eco Choice and Rider’s Choice. Some subtle difference in materials but I doubt you’d notice any difference riding them – not in terms of turning/carving.
I wouldn’t say they’d be my first choice as a carving board if that was the main thing you did and you really liked to bomb and get nice and low on your carves. But for a more freestyle oriented board it carves decently.
Thanks Nate 🙂
Hi Nate,
I’m a progressing beginner, able to link turns and learning carving and small land tricks. I like cruising too so I’m assuming all mountain? I’ve already bought the Yes Basic 2017 158cm but I am worried I have gone too large for my stats and riding. My current weight is 80kg, and 5’11 (180cm) with 10 US shoe size (not sure exact snow boot though). My weight can fluctuate from 75kg-85kg due to sport requirements but usually 80kg during winter. Should I keep the 158cm or swap for the 155cm. Preferably I would like to keep 1 board for a while as snowboarding is an expensive hobby but if that 3cm difference will impact my progression than I can swap to 155cm. What do you think?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Hi Joshua
I think the 158cm should be fine for you. If you were a complete beginner, then maybe 155cm would have been better. But it sounds like you’ve advanced enough that you could handle the 158cm. And that’s about the size you’ll never need to go longer than, so you can keep for as long as you want.
I think the 155cm would be a slightly faster progression than the 158cm. But I don’t think the 158cm will be so long that it stunts your progress or hurts your technique – just a slightly steeper learning curve.
And from what you’re describing, I think the YES Basic is a very suitable board for your ability and developing style.
Hope this helps.
Hey Nate!
First of all I’d like to thank you for all of these reviews, they’re so technical and give a good insight on every board and riding style, it’s awesome!
Now onto my question,
I’ve been riding an entry-level snowboard suited for all-mountain (Salomon Sight 153) for the last 3 seasons and I feel like I am ready to “step it up” a little bit. My riding has gotten a lot better and I would define it exactly as all-mountain-freestyle, just because while what I enjoy the most is hitting natural jumps off-piste and getting over powder now and then, I tend to be on the groomed tracks as well so I need something that grips properly to some icy tracks while not sacrificing too much speed and maneuverability on the process. Then again making the whole mountain feel like a park is what I am looking into the most, so I would need a board that is agile, poppy and kinda soft. I am working on my switch riding at the moment.
I am about 5’7 feet (173 cm) and 140 pounds (63kg), so what size of board would you suggest? As I told you I’ve been riding a 153 board and feel like I would need something slightly shorter, do you agree?
I’ve looked into the boards you listed and the one that caught my eye is the Capita DOA, and I wonder whether it would feel a bit too aggressive as in like hard to master kind of board. Remember that I am no pro and still have big room for improvement in mostly every aspect of snowboarding.
The other board I have in mind is the Lib Tech TRS, which as you listed seems a lot easier to handle and is an overall very complete board.
Which board should I torn to? Maybe some other board you have in mind? Also again which size? 148? or would that be too short?
Again thanks in advance for any input on these questions and sorry for all the details given! Keep up the hard work, really appreciate this helpful website!
Hey Alfonso
Thanks for your message – and thanks for the details, it makes my job easier if I have all the details.
First of all, in terms of sizing, I think something around a 149cm to 151cm, generally speaking, would work well for you. Each board is different but that would be a general range I would look at. That’s based on the fact that you want something more all-mountain-freestyle and based on your weight/height and ability.
The DOA is a great board. It is a little bit more challenging and can be unforgiving if you’re not on your game – but if you can tame it, it’s a great weapon! I definitely wouldn’t say it’s the hardest board in the world to ride either. It’s still a medium flexing board and it’s not like super-catchy like some boards – but it’s a little bit more challenging than the boards in this list. I wouldn’t say it’s a no go for you but the only other thing is that it’s not as good as something like the TRS in hard/icy conditions, so that would be the other factor.
I think anything in this list would be suitable – they’re all either good or excellent in hard/icy conditions and they are all sort the style you’re describing well. If you feel you need excellent in icy conditions then I would say the following.
~ Lib Tech TRS
~ YES Basic
~ Niche Aether
~ GNU Rider’s Choice/Eco Choice
But if you think that really good in those conditions is enough, then the YES Greats and Never Summer Proto Type Two would be great options. If you’re not sure about asymmetrical twins, then that would leave the TRS, Aether & Basic. I really like asymmetrical boards but some people are put off by them.
In terms of sizing for the boards I’ve mentioned I would go with:
~ Lib Tech TRS – 151cm (247mm waist)
~ YES Basic – 149cm (248mm waist)
~ Niche Aether – 153cm (254mm waist) – this is the shortest it comes in so may not be suitable if you were wanting to size down a bit
~ GNU Rider’s Choice – 151.5cm (251mm waist)
~ YES The Greats – 152cm (247mm waist)
~ Never Summer Proto Type 2 – 152cm (248mm waist)
I am guessing that any of the waist widths there will be fine given the 153cm Sight has a 246mm waist width. But if you want to let me know your boot size I can also give you my opinion on an appropriate width range. But I’m pretty sure you’ll be fine on any of those.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Hi Nate,
love your site! So I’m currently considering whether getting the Capita Outdoor Living 156 or 158. I’m 5’10” to 5’11”, 155lbs with a size 10.5 shoes and can’t decide between the two. The smaller has the narrow width of 250, the other one is 253. What would you do? Let me know what you think, would love to hear your thougths on this.
Thanks.
Malte
Hi Malte
Thanks for your message.
Just to clarify, we are talking about the Outdoor Living and not the Outerspace Living. The Outdoor Living was 2016 and previous and the Outerspace Living is the 2017 model. The Outerspace Living is a bit of different board – it’s the progression of the Outdoor Living but a coupele of things changed.
Not that that makes a difference on what size to go for.
I think that you could go either 156cm or 158cm. I would say the 156cm would be the better size for you though – except that I think with 10.5 boots you would be better on the slightly wider version. Though in all honesty it won’t be much wider.
If you have low profile boots, then I would say definitely get the 156cm but if you don’t then the 158cm might be the safer bet. If you don’t have boots yet, or are looking to get new ones, then I would say to go for low profile boots (Adidas, Burton or Ride are good bets). This would allow you to get on the 156 Outdoor Living and would also give you more options for boards in the future.
Hope this helps
Hey Nate,
thanks a lot for your considerations, really appreciate it! I do have boots already and unfortunately they are not low profile ones I think. I read about the progression of the Outdoor Living to the Outerspace Living but found a really good used one of the previous year’s model. So if I remember correctly it changed from a flat profile to a more hybrid camber one, how does that affect usability in the park and on all mountain terrain? Is it more poppy, snappy and catchy or are they about equally suitable? I really like the Capita boards, also found the Thunderstick which is a little bit wider. Which one would you suggest under these conditions or do you have a completely different recommendation of roughly the same profile? Once again thanks a lot for your help and keep up the great work!
Malte
Hi Malte
Yeah it changed from flat to hybrid camber (camber between the feet and under the feet with rocker outside the inserts).
I would say that the new profile is a bit more poppy – I find camber more poppy but flat isn’t un-poppy by any means. I’d say the flat profile outdoor living was better on boxes and rails in the park and that flat is pretty stable for landing jumps but the camber in the hybrid camber is also good for landing stability.
I’d say the flat can be a bit more catchy – the hybrid rocker has that rocker in the tip and tail which helps to make it less catchy – but if you’re a more advanced rider that shouldn’t be an issue. I would say that the Outdoor Living was probably leaning more towards being a freestyle/park board but you can still definitely take it out on the groomers. But the Outerspace Living is probably more of a genuinely all-mountain freestyle board – so you can take it in the park or ride freestyle over the whole mountain or ride it almost like an all mountain board. except in powder really.
The Thunderstick is more of a park focused ride. If that’s what you’re looking for then it would be a good choice. 155cm or 157cm? If you were going to be riding mostly park, then I think the 155cm would be the better option.
Another option you could check out is the Capita DOA. It’s a more aggressive ride than the Outerspace Living but it’s defeinitely all-mountain freestyle. It’s technically hybrid camber too but it has camber between the feet and under the feet and then about 5cms past the inserts (about where the rocker starts on the outerspace living) there’s a flat zone and then just a tiny bit of rocker at the end of the flat zone. Overall it’s a bit more aggressive and could be catchy if you weren’t an experienced rider – but I loved it. You can check out my aggressive all-mountain freestyle list at the link below and also my full review of the DOA.
>>My Top 5 Aggressive All-Mountain Freestyle
>>Capita DOA full review
For the DOA I would say 155W would be the best size for you. Of course if you want something more playful, then the Outdoor Living or Outerspace Living are more on that playful side.
The Thunderstick is softer flexing (4/10 flex) than both the Outerspace Living (5/10 flex) and the DOA (5.5/10) but it does have pretty much a traditional camber profile (with some small flat spots just before the contact points) – so it’s flex does make it more playful but the camber profile is quite aggressive.
Hope this gives you a bit more to go off. If you have any other questions about boards you’re interested in let me know.
Thanks for the great advice, it helped me a lot. The DOA is pretty much what I am looking for. So think I will end up getting this one.
Cheers
Hey Malte
You’re very welcome. Hope you enjoy you’re new board and the rest of the season!
Hi Nate,
Firstly massive thanks for the lists and advice given in your articles. I’m just looking for some advice on the Yes The Greats. In terms of stiffness how did it compare to the Slash Brainstorm? How easy was it to press? I’m currently 79kg with size 10.5 (us) shoe size, would you recommend 158cm over the 156cm for me?
Thanks,
Adam
Hi Adam
I would say that it’s kind of similar to press with as the Brain Storm in terms of ease of pressing and it’s really quite a similar flex too, in my opinion. It’s got a bit more camber going on between the feet than the Brainstorm so it’s a little more aggressive overall – but the rocker in the nose and tail and the flex is softened up a bit in the nose and tail so that makes it easier to press.
I would say that it’s got the edge over the Brainstorm in terms of pressing just because it’s even on both the tip and tail. So tail presses and nose presses are just as good as each other and feel the same. The Brainstorm has more rocker in the nose due to it’s setback hybrid camber profile and less rocker in the tail. So it feels different when pressing on each side.
Hope this helps and answers your question
Hi Nate,
Thanks for your reply, based on that I’m leaning towards the greats. Quick question on size I’m currently 79kg with size 10.5 (us) shoe size, would you recommend 158cm over the 156cm for me?
Thanks,
Adam
Hi Adam
Oops, I completely forgot to answer the second part of your last question. Thanks for reminding me. Can you let me know your height as well. Even though weight is the main factor in determining length, height plays a part too, in order to give an accurate recommendation.
Hi Nate,
No worries. I’m 5ft 10.5 (179cm).
Thanks,
Adam
Hi Adam
Thanks for that.
I think the 156cm for you is best for this particular board. That’s what I would go with if it was me (185lbs-ish [83kg] & 6″0 with size 10s). So I think that’s best for you too. I think the 154cm would definitely be too short. The 158cm would work but I think you’ll get more out of the 156cm for this type of board. If you were going for more of a big mountain or all-mountain board, then 158cm to 159cm would be better but for an all-mountain freestyle board like this, the 156cm is the best balance, IMO.
The width is going to be on the narrow side for 10.5s but I think it will be fine.
Hope this helps with your decision
Hi nate
I want to ask what do u think about the size i should choose in a all mountain/freestyle board.
I have 165lb and 5,8
My actual board is a never sumer proto hd in 158
Hi Rafa
I like to take off a little bit from what I would call my “all-mountain” length but not as much as I would take off for a freestyle/park kind of board.
For you, I’d say your all-mountain length would be around 157cm – so I’d probably go roughly 155cm to 156cm. But I don’t think that the Proto HD 158 is necessarily wrong for you. Length is variable and part of it comes down to personal preference. I prefer to go a little shorter but others don’t necessarily.
The 158 is a wide version right? I would be a bit more concerned with it being too wide for you if that’s the case. If you can let me know if it’s the 158X (wide version) and also let me know your boot size and I can give you my opinion on whether I think it’s too wide.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate,
Thank you for you response! It is much appreciated.
I am currently on a 161. I think the waist width is 267, which, quite honestly, I believe is just a bit too wide for me. My boot is the Burton Ruler, and now that I check the boot, I see that it is a size 11.5, but this particular boot runs small, so the 11.5 fits like any other size 11. I am a true size 11. I have no issue going with a wide board.
Additionally, I don’t necessarily require a true twin, as I only do about 15% switch riding, and honestly, I am not very good at it, but would like to get better. Most reviews of the West, Typo, and Standard indicate that even though these decks are not traditionally centered, they still do OK in switch. I really enjoy doing butters and presses, however, so the true twin would be nice there. I think what I am looking for is something right in the middle of all-mountain and all-mountain/freestyle, with no preference one way or the other.
For symmetrical, I would choose the Assassin, as the Outerspace Living would be the last choice on my list just based on your point regarding its performance in hard/icy conditions. For asymmetrical, the Proto Type Two seems to be the one that is calling.
Otherwise, if I were to go with one of the all-mountain decks here, either the West, Typo, or Standard, which one of these decks do you feel is closest to that all-mountain/freestyle ride that would allow me to transition more to switch riding, and also allow progression with buttering/pressing?
Are there any other decks not mentioned that I am overlooking?
Thanks again!
JD
Hi JD.
You’re very welcome.
I suspected you’d be on something like a 160 or 161 for your freeride board.
Because you have boots with outersole reduction, then I’d still consider them 11s, even though they’re actually 11.5 – as you’ve pointed out.
In terms of the closest all-mountain board to being an all-mountain freestyle board, I’d say the Typo is the closest to that. I’d actually say that the Typo is the most freestyle all-mountain board (what I’d categorize as an all-mountain board). It’s not a true twin but it’s close to being so and the setback is only 5mm so it’s a very very subtle setback. It’s also very good in hard and icy conditions. Very quick edge to edge too – great for in the trees. Not as good in powder as the Standard or West but a little better than the all-mountain freestyle boards we’ve been discussing.
I think the Typo would be a great choice, if you didn’t want to go for a pure all-mountain freestyle deck. Size-wise I’d say the 159W would probably be the best balance for you. You could go down to 156W – it would make some of those freestyle things easier to learn but sacrifice a little in terms of float and stability at speed. Or you could consider the 158 regular width. I think you’d get away with it but no guarantees.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Hi Nate,
Thanks for all your reviews! I am having a hard time choosing my next board, and hoping you can help!
6’1″, 176lbs, size 11 boot. I am an intermediate-advanced rider, and do most of my riding in the Pacific Northwest, so I am used to mostly hard snow, icy conditions where grip can be an issue, and the occasional dump of fairly heavy/wet “powder.” I am looking to transition into an all-mountain/freestyle board with a less aggressive feel, and more of a fun riding style, without sacrificing performance.
I ride the whole mountain, with the exception of the park. I am not a jibber at all. I do enjoy natural hits of small/medium size, and would like to find a board that can help me progress with some easy butters/presses and other freestyle riding, but not be so soft where it is unstable at speed or with carving on steeper or chunder terrain. Something I can just play around on all over the mountain, but also have the ability to get aggressive and really rip when needed.
After reading reviews for days, it seems that the NS Proto Type Two would be the perfect board for the riding style I am wanting to transition to. The Yes The Greats and Gnu Eco Choice also appeal to me. I am not, however, too excited about the asymmetric shape of these boards, and wonder if there are any symmetrical twin/directional-twin boards that would be comparable to the Proto Type Two.
I have also been considering the following:
Yes Standard
Yes Typo
NeverSummer West
Capita Outerspace Living
Salomon Assassin
What are your feelings about these boards with respect to my desired riding style? Should I be concerned about switching to an asymmetrical shaped board after only riding a directional, fully cambered, all-mountain freeride board my whole life, where I am usually set back and set up not duck footed?
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
JD
Hi JD
It will certainly be an adjustment to go to an asymmetrical twin with a centered stance after being on a freeride deck your whole life.
But, IMO, it’s an easier transition going that way than the other way around.
I really like the asymmetrical boards – for this type of riding – and I didn’t find it was much to get used to (I had ridden a lot of twins before going onto asymmetrical twins but even so, I don’t think it’s that much of a transition to be honest).
However, if you are really concerned about the asymmetrical boards, then I think that the Capita Outerspace Living and Salomon Assassin would be what I would consider to be all-mountain freestyle from your list.
The Other 3 I would say are all-mountain. Of course, that’s not to say that they wouldn’t work for you, but I wouldn’t necessarily call them all-mountain-freestyle. They would, however, be closer to what you are used to riding (not the same but closer) and could potentially be an easier transition.
In terms of riding a duck stance on asymmetrical boards, I think that it’s probably best to ride them with a duck stance – but not necessarily a mirror-duck. I know a lot of people recommend a mirror-duck on them (e.g. +15/-15) but it’s certainly not mandatory, IMO. I’ve ridden asym boards with a slight-duck stance (+18/-6) and they were absolutely fine. Yeah, you’ll get the best switch performance with a mirror duck – but that’s the case with a symmetrical twin as well.
I think from what you’re describing here, that something from this list would suit you really well and I think that you would transition into the asym twin pretty easily – it will take a little bit of time to get used to it, but not that much, IMO, so long as you don’t expect too much on day 1. The Outerspace Living and Assasin would also be options – my only concern with the Outerspace living is in the harder/icy conditions.
In terms of sizing, I would say the following (these might be smaller than what you’re used to riding but I think they’re the right sizes for the style you are moving into): With your boot size, I would go with something with a waist width somewhere between 254mm and 260mm, if possible.
Eco Choice: 157.5cm (255mm waist width)
The Greats: 158 (253mm waist width – this might be pushing it on being too narrow, unless you have reduced footprint boots (what boots do you currently have?)
Proto Type Two: 158X (263mm waist) – this is on the other end of the scale and on the wide-end that I would go with for you. If you do have reduced footprint boots, you should be able to get on the 157.
Hope this helps – let me know if have any concerns over sizing or if you want another opinion on sizing for any other boards. Out of curiosity, what size do you currently ride?
Hi Nate,
Great write-up and thank you for the detailed review. I’m 5’9, 170-190 lbs, mainly riding on the West Coast (Big Bear, Mountain High) but am in the process of relocating to the East Coast, and will probably be riding there more often going forward. I’d just like to hear your recommendation on sizing for the Proto Type Two, between the 155 and the 157 cm. Thanks!
Hi Chony
For you I would go with the 157cm Proto Type Two – this is taking an assumption of 180lbs – though I would still say 157 at 170 and 190lbs. So yeah definitely 157cm. The 154cm is an option if you prefer to go shorter than average and I wouldn’t say it’s a no go at all – but I think the 157 would be the most balanced size for you.
Note this is based on the assumption that you meant between the 154 and 157. If you meant between the 155W and 157 I’d say it would still be the 157, unless you have size 11.0 to size 13.0 feet, then it would be between the 155W and the 158W.
Hope this helps
Gotcha Nate. Thank you so much!
You’re very welcome Chony. Hope you have an awesome season!
6’2″‘, 200-215 lbs, size 10.5-11
High Intermediate, riding in Tahoe primarily
I’ve been riding a High Society Freeride board (164) for several years. It’s pretty fast and on the stiffer side.
Looking to switch it up for something a little softer, probably a twin, to work on natural hits and switch progess.
Any advice would be great. I really enjoyed your article.
Thanks!
Hi Brian
I think an all-mountain-freestyle board sounds like the kind of thing you’re after. I think anything in this list would suit you well. In terms of sizing, I would take off a couple of centimeters from that 164 for your all-mountain-freestyle board.
With 10.5 to 11.0 boots, anything from around 252mm to 260mm would be an approximate range in terms of waist width. If they’re 11.0s, then you should probably try to go above 254mm.
From this list, the sizings I would recommend would be:
YES Basic: 161cm (254mm waist)
Lib Tech TRS: 162cm (256mm waist)
GNU Eco Choice: 161.5cm (258mm waist)
YES The Greats: the longest size for the greats is a 158cm – this is probably the only one on this list that doesn’t have a suitable size for you
NS Proto Type Two: 160cm (254mm waist)
If you want to look at more options you could also check out my all-mountain-freestyle snowboards ratings catalogs page (just lists 20 different all-mountain-freestyle boards in order of how I rated them).
~ All-Mountain-Freestyle Snowboards Ratings Catalog
Hope this helps.
Hi Nate!
I love snowboarding, but don’t know a lot on the technical aspect. I’ve been looking to buy a new board and I’ve been researching which boards would be best, but I was hoping I could get your advice/opinion.
I’m 5′ 7″ weighing roughly 132ish. I’m currently riding an old 143cm that seems to have a really soft flex. I like how easily I can turn and throw around the board, but it doesn’t carve well or hold well on icier moguls. It isn’t very stable.
I like to go backcountry, weave through trees, practice tricks on jumps, and weave through moguls.
All of the snowboarding sites I’ve seen take skill into account for recommending boards so here’s an idea of where I’m at – I haven’t really learned the finer details of snowboarding and mainly learned by feel. Park wise, I’m pretty trash. I can’t do rails at all, never done a half pipe, but I’m currently working on landing a 360 backflip. I have the backflip rotation down, but I’m 90 degrees shy of completion. I can ollie 180 both ways decently. I can *usually* ride double blacks well once I get comfortable; othertimes (icy moguls) i get my butt handed to me. I can ride blacks shakily with my fakie side. I can ride black moguls really comfortably without plowing, but double black icy moguls cause me to plow/slide. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m not technical enough yet, or if my board just doesn’t grip well on ice.
I was looking at the Prototype 2 but i think it’s smallest size is 152. What do you think? Will going 152 not sacrifice maneuverability?
I’d love any advice I can get on improving. Thank you!
Hi Minh
It sounds like you like to ride a lot of different scenarios. That’s cool.
I think you could definitely go longer than the 143cm but going up to 152cm might be a bit too long – especially as you are going from a 143cm. The advantage of a longer board is that you will gain stability and some extra edge-hold and better float in powder. The downside with going longer is it makes it harder to spin and, like you say, makes it more difficult to maneuver. This is one of the reasons why it’s good to have more than one board – you can have different sizes (as well as different specs) for different things. SO you could keep your 143 and use it for certain things.
But overall I think the 143 is too short for you anyway, even for freestyle. But I would be hesistant in jumping you straight up to a 152. What’s your boot size? Depending on your boot size, you might be able to fit on the women’s version of the Proto Type 2 (it’s got a pretty neutral graphic, in my opinion). But it’s likely that it would be too narrow.
I would say something in the range of 147-149 would be a good size for you to look at.
Also I think something a bit stiffer will serve you well. You sound like you are reasonably advanced. Certainly advanced enough to handle some extra stiffness. And that stiffness will also help with stability.
I suggest you look into the following:
~ GNU Space Case 147
~ YES Typo 149
~ Burton Custom 148 (if you like the feel of all camber)
~ Ride Machete 149
~ GNU Head Space 149
Hi Nate,
I have been stuck between choosing the right board and would love to hear your advice/input!
after all the reviews I have read from your website and others, I have narrowed down my board choices between the Proto type II, Yes The Greats, and Never Summer West. My riding style is basically hitting all types of natural kickers in every part of the mountain, park jumps, spending time in between trees in powder, and staying off of the smooth groomer runs.
My question for you is do you think the Proto type II will perform well with a +18 degree front/-9 degree back foot stance on a board that is asymmetrical and meant for a duct stance (+15/-15)?
Also any advice on which of these three boards (or any other of your recommendations) will best fit a rider like me who is always looking for kickers for spin tricks, and powder.
I love how technical and detailed your reviews are! they are unmatchable!
Thanks in advanced!
Alex
Hey Alex
You can definitely ride the Proto Type Two with those binding angles. I rode the Proto Type Two with +15/-15 but I have ridden other asym boards with +18/-6 and they were fine.
I think that the Type 2 and Greats will be your best bet for your kickers and spins. In terms of powder the West will be better. But you would have a 20mm set back stance on the West and I imagine you would want to be centered? If your rocking heaps of powder, then you’ll have to work a bit harder on the Greats and Proto Type 2 to keep the nose up but they can definitely ride the powder – just not ideal for it. That said, if you centered the West it would likely be similar in powder to the other two.
The other options could be the YES Typo and the Burton Trick Pony. They’ll be a little better in powder but have smaller setback stances than the West. They won’t quite be as good for riding switch or for jumps and spins as the Greats and the Proto Type 2 but will still be good.
Sorry to throw other options into the mix!
But I think from how you describe your style to be that the Greats or the Proto Type 2 will be the best options. Just know that they won’t be like surfy in the powder if that’s what you were after – but they are both quick from edge-to-edge which is definitely good to have between the trees.
If you like to ride with a centered stance then the Greats and Proto Type II will be just as good in powder as if you were to ride the others centered anyway.
This reply is a bit all over the place! But I hope it gives you some more information for your decision.
Hey,
I am having a tough time choosing my next board. I have been considering Jones Mtn Twin but because i like to ride switch a lot I was concerned about it being too directional oriented. I am an advanced rider living near Mt Bachelor. I ride the whole mountain, and also enjoy park jumps and natural hits of small to medium size, I would like to find a board that can help me progress with some butters and presses and other freestyle but not be so soft it is unstable at speed or with carving on steeper or chunder terrain. My last board has felt too slanted in the free ride category, a stiffer directional twin so I would like to go a bit more all mtn freestyle. Other boards I have been considering are Yes Greats, NS Proto II, Yes Standard, Salomon Assassin. I’m 6’1″ 195, 10.5
Any suggestions? I really enjoy your reviews, most informative of all i have read online. Thanks!
I also ment to add that I was concerned the greats or proto were more park boards and woukdnt hold up as an all mountain ride, so comments on that would really be helpful!
Hey John
Thanks for your message. I think something like the Greats or Proto Type Two would suit your purposes well. They might not be as stable at speed or as good at carving as a good freeride board but they are still good carvers and still quite stable at speed. That’s the great thing about these types of boards is you get everything you want from a park board (except not usually as good for jibbing) but they are also good over the rest of the mountain.
They are definitely better than a park board in terms of carving and speed. As good as a lot of all mountain boards that I’ve ridden. Not up there with boards that are really specializing in speed, carving etc but pretty good none-the-less.
I think either the Greats or Proto Type Two would be great choices for you. Honestly, from my experience they are as good as the Mountain Twin for carving and speed and better for switch and jumps. They’re not as good for powder though, if you ride a lot of that.
The other option is to go for an aggressive-all-mountain-freestyle board (excuse the long name!) I have a list of my top 5 for them also if you want to check it for more options out at the link below.
>>Top 5 Aggressive All Mountain Freestyle Snowboards
Thanks A lot Nate! I think I will pull the trigger on one of those today.
John
You’re very welcome. Hope you enjoy the ride and have an awesome season!
HI nate I want to know about differences and pros and cons between YES the greats,NEVER SUMMER proto type two and GNU space case.
thank you
Hi nima
You just listed 3 of my favorite snowboards!
I would say that the main differences are that the Greats and the Proto Type 2 are slightly faster and better with carving than the Space Case. They are slightly more stable at speed too. The Space Case is a slightly better jibber. They’re all great with jumps and riding switch.
I categorize the Space Case as a freestyle snowboard for these reasons, which is why it’s not in this list – though it would also score very highly if it was in this list. You can check out my Top 10 Freestyle Snowboards to see just how highly I rate the Space Case as a “freestyle” snowboard.
Between the Proto Type Two (as per the score breakdowns) and the YES Greats, I felt the Greats was slightly more stable at speed – but very little in it – and the Proto Type Two is slightly better in choppy uneven snow – but again it’s very close.
Hope this answers your question
thank you very much nate. very useful
Surprised the Yes Greats isn’t in one of the Top 10. It is almost an aggressive all mountain freestyle board which can do it all. I have had 3 of them and this is my favorite board to ride all conditions I just size up to my 158 for powder days.
Hey Chris
The YES The Greats is one of the few YES boards I am yet to assess. Will be one of the first on the list this coming season. I have heard good things about this deck and when I update this list for 2016/17 season, it may well be on it, assuming it lives up to what I’ve heard about it. Can’t wait to ride it this season!
I see it got in there! I have been riding Yes boards since they came out and I love how they have stayed normal cambered with just a little early rise for a little more float and are a little less catchy. I have had a couple of them over the years and currently I have 2of the Greats in a 156 and 158. 156 for park and normal days and the 158 for powder days out here in Utah. I think I can get away with a 158 out here due to the light snow ( I am 6’2 182lb).
The Greats is an awesome deck for sure. In fact I haven’t ridden a YES board that I didn’t like yet. Definitely doing something right over at YES
Great write-up. Can I ask why the Lib Tech T. Rice is not on this list? I’ve been going back and forth on my next board and I am stuck between the NS Proto HDX and the Lib Tech T. Rice Pro C2 BTX. Both wide boards around 158. I live in AZ so snow conditions differ a lot here on the mountain. I mainly stick to the mountain slopes, taking a few cuts between the woods and I hit the park once in a while as well.
Hey Jon
The T.Rice Pro is one of the few Lib Tech boards that I don’t have any experience with. But I have heard great things.
I think both boards would suit your purposes well. From what I do know of these boards I would say that The T.Rice Pro would be a bit more aggressive than the Proto and the Proto would feel a bit more playful in comparison. The T.Rice might also be slightly better in icy conditions but there wouldn’t be too much in it.
Otherwise these are actually reasonably similar decks from what I can tell – same type of camber profile, both true twin and centered. The Proto has a deeper sidecut which is what makes it less aggressive.
Hope this helps your decision
Hi!
Thanks for the response.
I have wrongly expressed myself in my previous comment. Jibbing is not an aspect that would determine my purchase, because I am pretty novice at it. As long as the TRS does satisfactory when sliding boxes, and gives a decent playfulness when needed such as buttering around the piste, then I will be more than pleased to go with it.
I am concerned, however, that some people say that the TRS struggles at low speeds as it is designed to be more aggressive. Therefore, does this mean that it will let me down in more technical terrains whether on-piste or trails? Jumping and playfulness is what I am looking after. Stability is also very important feature when speeding or jumping although it contradicts to the looser feel. That’s why I want to find the balance. I will be opting for a 154 board where the flex is rated at 5/10 for both TRS and Skate Banana.
Should I consider other boards as well, or this will confuse me even more?
Cheers
Hey Tyler
I think that you’re on the right track going with Lib Tech – given that you ride on a lot of ice if I recall from your original post.
I think the TRS is going to work best for you by the sounds of it. If you were going to be doing more jibbing then I’d go with the Skate Banana but for your needs I think your best with the TRS. It won’t be as loose feeling as mentioned before but overall I think it’s the better choice. I wouldn’t call the TRS an aggressive board so I wouldn’t worry too much about how it rides at lower speeds – it won’t be as mellow as the Skate Banana but it won’t be super aggressive either.
Particularly if you are going with that 154 with the 5/10 flex then you shouldn’t find it too aggressive. Out of curiosity what is your height and weight? Just so that I can get an idea of sizing.
Thanks again Nate!
I am around 5’9″ and 160lbs. I used Lib tech’s board finder to determine the length (154-157) and decided to go for the shorter one for more playfulness.
Should I cross out the Attack Banana? I read that it falls between the Skate Banana and Gnu’s Rider Choice? Another even cheaper option also came into consideration — Gnu’s Metal Gnuru, it’s EC2 BTX. It might be a good compromise that falls between SB and TRS, or I should stick with the latter and not worry about its more stiff flex? It’s both the stability for jumps and speed as well as the playfulness for buttering around the slope that keep me still wondering what to choose, although I know that a perfect balance is hard to achieve.
Cheers
Hey Tyler
Yeah good choice size-wise. I was going to say you’ll want to be a bit shorter for that play-fullness you’re after. I think 154cm is a good choice.
To me the Attack Banana is quite similar to the Skate Banana but a little stiffer and maybe slightly better on jumps but not as good jibbing-wise but doesn’t offer that much extra in terms of carving and speed. It’s not going to be a bad choice but I’m not sure it’s worth the extra money over the Skate Banana.
The Metal Gnuru is another Mervin option that has magne-traction. It’s got slightly more rocker in the camber profile which should make it looser feeling than the TRS but it’s under the TRS in terms of speed and jumps. But as you say it’s a cheaper option and you don’t loose too much in performance.
I still think the TRS is a good option – especially the 154 but the Gnuru works too – the 155.
Like you say it’s hard to get the perfect balance but I think one of these will work well for you.
Cheers Nate!
I’ll check both the Metal Gnuru and the TRS out at the local store and will go with my gut.
Really appreciate your input
Hey Tyler.
You’re very welcome. Let me know which you go with
Hey Nate!
Nice work, keep it up!
I am planning to buy a new snowboard to replace my already obsolete Burton Blunt that I’ve been riding for the past 7-8 years now. The places where I ride usually get icy, therefore, Mervin’s snowboards seem to be the way to go. I can’t decide which board to pick, because I ride on- and off-piste, jumps – grabs and some rotations, and have some powder days as well. I’d like to improve my freestyle skills in parks and around the piste (jumps, buttering, boxes etc). What I want is to feel the board loose so that I can play with it, but at the same not to the extent to make me feel unstable when speeding or jumping — overall an all rounder that can handle both parks and powder.
Lib tech’s Skate Banana, Attack Banana and TRS are the ones that caught my eye, where the latter seems to be the sweet spot in between. Is the TRS too aggressive for an every day use and does it come anywhere near the playfulness of the Skate Banana? As for the Attack Banana I believe it is just a more freeride oriented SB.
I’d really appreciate if you could help me choose the best option for me. Any other suggestions are welcome.
Cheers
Hi Tyler
Thanks for your message and all the details.
I think overall it’s between the Skate Banana (SB) and the TRS.
The SB has that loose feeling you’re after, it’s great when it comes to gripping ice, it’s the best jibber of the 3 (which is going to be great for those boxes). It will be just as good in powder as the TRS or the Attack Banana.
The TRS has a more stable feel and not as good a jibber as the SB – but it will carve better, handle speed better and is a better jumper.
So it depends which is more important for you – that looser feel and better at jibbing – or the better jumper and speeder.
I think the SB will feel slightly more similar to the Blunt.
I think either will do the job well but it depends on what aspects you are more likely to appreciate.
Hope this helps.
Hey Nate!
A technicality…
Shouldn’t the TRS and the Parkitect be marked as tied for #1?
Alternatively, why is the TRS marked as #2 if it has the same score as the Parkitect?
Hey
Yeah they are technically tied for first – good spotting! I just found it easier to label one of them first and one second. And even though the boards are both all-mountain-freestyle they are still have slightly different strengths and weaknesses so which board is preferred by different people will differ. And sometimes it even comes down to which graphic you prefer!
Thinking about getting a 157 Proto Type 2. I had a 57 Proto CT and it felt fine but waist width looks a little narrower. Think i’m cool width wise on the 157 with a 10.5 boot?
Hi Brian
I would say you should be fine on the Proto Type 2 157 in terms of waist. The waist on the CT was 253mm by the looks of it – but with a slightly narrower tip and tail. So with the slightly wider tip/tail and only pinched in 1mm at the waist, the Type Two will be very close to the same width at the inserts as the CT – so if you had no issues on the 56 CT, then you should be fine on the Type Two 57.
And generally speaking 252mm is ok for 10.5s – it’s the narrowest I would go on 10.5s but, again, if you’ve had no issues on the CT, I think you’re definitely ok.
What do you think for me im 5’5 and never snowboarded ever! Should i go with grade or stick with this one?
Hi Riko
If you’ve never snowboarder before, then I would go for a snowboard that’s more suitable for a beginner. If you’re wanting to go for something Never Summer, then I think your best bet is the Never Summer Snowtrooper. But you should also check out the following link for more options:
>>My Top 15 Men’s Snowboards for Beginners
In terms of sizing, if you could let me know your weight and boot size as well, that would be great. Weight, as well as height, is a big factor in determining snowboard length and boot size helps to choose something with a width that’s right for you.
Hope this helps
Hi Nate
Sorry, but another sizing question (with a bit of a choice question mixed in). I’ve been riding an Arbor Wasteland (2008) for about 10 years now. I’ve enjoyed it and there’s nothing wrong with it but I’m looking for a board that I can work on my butters and presses with, and still hit up some tree runs, and powder when I see it.
I’m 1’83m and around 90kgs, I’ve been looking at the Evil Twin 159 (2019) and the Yes Greats 159 (2019)? Do you have any recommendations on either of those, or another board I should look at?
Hi Olu
Thanks for your message.
I don’t currently test Bataleon. But it sounds like the Evil Twin could work – and the 159 sounds like a good length.
The Greats would also be a good choice for what you’re describing, IMO – and the 159 is likely the best size for you for that board too. But if you could let me know your boot size, that would help to make a more accurate recommendation.